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 Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions 
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Post Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
From ESPN's Ben Goessling:

http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-viki ... -questions

Quote:
Players whom Zimmer has developed, who would be seen as some of the coach's star pupils, suddenly decided not to follow a game plan -- and apparently not to tell Zimmer, defensive coordinator George Edwards nor defensive backs coach Jerry Gray about it. Did they lose faith in the scheme after a 34-6 loss to the Colts last Sunday? Did they think their ideas wouldn't be heard if they approached coaches with them? Did Zimmer decide to let the plan play out in the first half, or was he trying to stop it?

Those questions remain open, and Zimmer's ability to discipline players next Sunday against the Chicago Bears would be hampered somewhat by the lack of other options in his secondary. But Saturday's developments, at the end of a season that began with Super Bowl aspirations and will end with a meaningless Week 17 game, suggest there's more at play in the Vikings' demise than just injuries and some bad luck.


Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:03 am
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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
More on this subject from Matt Coller of 1500ESPN.com:

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2016/ ... -gameplan/

Quote:
Zimmer admitted in his post-game comments that his defensive backs plotted against him to change how they matched up with Green Bay Packers receiver Jordy Nelson. Those disagreements rarely see public air. There is no explanation for why a coach would allow the world to know he’s lost control.

There may, however, be an explanation for why they players decided to go against him.

In the locker room, there was a great deal of frustration last week over the fact that the Vikings’ defense got badly out-schemed by the Indianapolis Colts. Zimmer elected to play Munnerlyn, a solid nickel corner, only 32 plays. Indy used their three tight end sets to bait the Vikings into playing their base package, then they passed out of those sets. Andrew Luck completed three passes for 50 yards and a touchdown to speedy third-string tight end Erik Swoope, a former basketball player who runs a 4.6 40-yard dash.

It is also plausible to think the Vikings players may have been unhappy with Zimmer’s messages through the media throughout the season.


Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:08 am
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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Mothman wrote:
More on this subject from Matt Collier of 1500ESPN.com:

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2016/ ... -gameplan/

Quote:
Zimmer admitted in his post-game comments that his defensive backs plotted against him to change how they matched up with Green Bay Packers receiver Jordy Nelson. Those disagreements rarely see public air. There is no explanation for why a coach would allow the world to know he’s lost control.

There may, however, be an explanation for why they players decided to go against him.

In the locker room, there was a great deal of frustration last week over the fact that the Vikings’ defense got badly out-schemed by the Indianapolis Colts. Zimmer elected to play Munnerlyn, a solid nickel corner, only 32 plays. Indy used their three tight end sets to bait the Vikings into playing their base package, then they passed out of those sets. Andrew Luck completed three passes for 50 yards and a touchdown to speedy third-string tight end Erik Swoope, a former basketball player who runs a 4.6 40-yard dash.

It is also plausible to think the Vikings players may have been unhappy with Zimmer’s messages through the media throughout the season.


Zimmer's act of throwing players and coordinators under the bus is getting old. I think the veteran players have finally had enough of it. The guy just doesn't take charge in the locker room and lets the players walk over him on the field. Turns out the guy is nothing more than another Tice/Frazier.


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
joe h wrote:

The guy just doesn't take charge in the locker room and lets the players walk over him on the field. Turns out the guy is nothing more than another Tice/Frazier.


Yup totally man. 2 bad games now he's the next Leslie Frazier. Frazier was a pathetic HC. But yeah you can totally tell after 2 games. Funny you weren't saying that last year after the GB and Seattle losses. Weird.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Zimmer just yet

But the collapse of this defense this year is alarming, and this article certainly doesn't make me feel better.

A few weeks ago I wrote on this board that the team might be quitting on Zim. I didn't have any evidence just a feeling after watching them play

Now it looks like there is some evidence. I hope Zim is able to nip this in the bud because if not next year could be a Les Steckelesque debacle


Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:36 am
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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
joe h wrote:

The guy just doesn't take charge in the locker room and lets the players walk over him on the field. Turns out the guy is nothing more than another Tice/Frazier.


Yup totally man. 2 bad games now he's the next Leslie Frazier. Frazier was a pathetic HC. But yeah you can totally tell after 2 games. Funny you weren't saying that last year after the GB and Seattle losses. Weird.


Regardless of what was said last year or how people feel about Frazier, Tice and other previous coaches, the current Vikings and their current coach have serious problems. This season has gone off the rails. Starting DBs who have played for Zimmer for years chose to disregard his coaching. His long-time friend and OC Norv Turner left mid-season. The team has been blown out two weeks in a row and they've followed up a 5-0 start with a 2-8 record. To put that in perspective, that's one game better than the Browns and 49ers over the same number of games. It's the same record next week's opponent, the 3-13 Bears have over the same period of time and it includes a loss to those Bears.

Players do get tired of being called out in the press. That could be a factor in what's been happening. If you read Matt Coller's article above, it certainly sounds like at least some members of the team are losing confidence in the coaching.

Personally, I think there's definitely more to the Vikings' demise than just injuries and some bad luck.


Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:45 am
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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
VikingPaul73 wrote:
I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Zimmer just yet

But the collapse of this defense this year is alarming, and this article certainly doesn't make me feel better.

A few weeks ago I wrote on this board that the team might be quitting on Zim. I didn't have any evidence just a feeling after watching them play

Now it looks like there is some evidence. I hope Zim is able to nip this in the bud because if not next year could be a Les Steckelesque debacle


Indeed. It could get really ugly.

It will be interesting to see how the Vikes perform next week.


Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:47 am
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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
You don't go 5-0 before the bye, then after the bye play the rest of the season like the Browns.
2 games after the bye Norv was gone. A lot more going on in the locker room between players and coaches than we know about,or they are letting on.
I think some big changes coming black Monday. "Think Zimmer is safe"


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Mothman wrote:

Indeed. It could get really ugly.

It will be interesting to see how the Vikes perform next week.

I'm interested to see who's in the starting lineup next week.


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Mothman wrote:
More on this subject from Matt Coller of 1500ESPN.com:

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2016/ ... -gameplan/

Quote:
Zimmer admitted in his post-game comments that his defensive backs plotted against him to change how they matched up with Green Bay Packers receiver Jordy Nelson. Those disagreements rarely see public air. There is no explanation for why a coach would allow the world to know he’s lost control.

There may, however, be an explanation for why they players decided to go against him.

In the locker room, there was a great deal of frustration last week over the fact that the Vikings’ defense got badly out-schemed by the Indianapolis Colts. Zimmer elected to play Munnerlyn, a solid nickel corner, only 32 plays. Indy used their three tight end sets to bait the Vikings into playing their base package, then they passed out of those sets. Andrew Luck completed three passes for 50 yards and a touchdown to speedy third-string tight end Erik Swoope, a former basketball player who runs a 4.6 40-yard dash.

It is also plausible to think the Vikings players may have been unhappy with Zimmer’s messages through the media throughout the season.

I've been solidly behind Zimmer since his hiring. But this is truly troubling.

Just another reason why 2016 has been the most disappointing season in all my years of following the Vikings.

Here's the kicker for me, though. Let's say it's true, and Zimmer DID get out-schemed by the Colts. What right does that give the players to commit such mutiny? It's inconceivable that veteran players would do this, especially when you consider that the Vikings have played good defense for most of the year, and for all but the past two games have been among the very best at defending against the pass. And why would Xavier Rhodes, who thrives on going against the other team's best, agree to go along with a scheme that allows somebody else to cover Nelson?

If this alleged mutiny is true, something has to change. Somebody has got to step in and solve this, or it's going to get ugly. And as usual, we fans will get the short end of the stick.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
If this alleged mutiny is true, something has to change. Somebody has got to step in and solve this, or it's going to get ugly. And as usual, we fans will get the short end of the stick.


Short end of the stick?

Stick? What stick?

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I've been solidly behind Zimmer since his hiring. But this is truly troubling.

Just another reason why 2016 has been the most disappointing season in all my years of following the Vikings.

Here's the kicker for me, though. Let's say it's true, and Zimmer DID get out-schemed by the Colts. What right does that give the players to commit such mutiny?

It's inconceivable that veteran players would do this, especially when you consider that the Vikings have played good defense for most of the year, and for all but the past two games have been among the very best at defending against the pass. And why would Xavier Rhodes, who thrives on going against the other team's best, agree to go along with a scheme that allows somebody else to cover Nelson?

If this alleged mutiny is true, something has to change. Somebody has got to step in and solve this, or it's going to get ugly. And as usual, we fans will get the short end of the stick.


It seems to be true. It's coming from Zimmer and Rhodes.

I see no excuse for what the players did. :(


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Zimmer will be here next season. I guarantee that. I do, however, think he will have to adjust his game planning and more importantly his attitude toward the players. I keep bringing up Bellicheck, but you never hear him call out one of his players. Never. I was worried when Zimmer would do that and i now wonder if the players are rebelling against it. The other problem is why on earth did it take one half of football before he made the DBs play what they practiced?

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Zimmer will be here next season. I guarantee that. I do, however, think he will have to adjust his game planning and more importantly his attitude toward the players. I keep bringing up Bellicheck, but you never hear him call out one of his players. Never. I was worried when Zimmer would do that and i now wonder if the players are rebelling against it. The other problem is why on earth did it take one half of football before he made the DBs play what they practiced?


I'm trying to figure that out too. why wouldn't he (or Edwards) make that adjustment as soon as he realized they weren't playing the coverage the way he wanted it played?


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
halfgiz you raise interesting points. the odd part for me is that as i was watching that eagles game i said to myself "this team is done." i could feel it. i'm not sure why or why not turner left, but he did a horrible job as the vikings offensive coordinator. it probably happened similar to zimmer basically saying that our offense sucks we need to score more points and turner took it the wrong way. either way, how has the offense changed under shurmer? it hasn't. it is the same horrid offense that actually dates back two years ago. until this team can field an actual nfl caliber offense forget about the defense. its irrelevant.


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
joe h wrote:

The guy just doesn't take charge in the locker room and lets the players walk over him on the field. Turns out the guy is nothing more than another Tice/Frazier.


Yup totally man. 2 bad games now he's the next Leslie Frazier. Frazier was a pathetic HC. But yeah you can totally tell after 2 games. Funny you weren't saying that last year after the GB and Seattle losses. Weird.


Regardless of what was said last year or how people feel about Frazier, Tice and other previous coaches, the current Vikings and their current coach have serious problems. This season has gone off the rails. Starting DBs who have played for Zimmer for years chose to disregard his coaching. His long-time friend and OC Norv Turner left mid-season. The team has been blown out two weeks in a row and they've followed up a 5-0 start with a 2-8 record. To put that in perspective, that's one game better than the Browns and 49ers over the same number of games. It's the same record next week's opponent, the 3-13 Bears have over the same period of time and it includes a loss to those Bears.

Players do get tired of being called out in the press. That could be a factor in what's been happening. If you read Matt Coller's article above, it certainly sounds like at least some members of the team are losing confidence in the coaching.

Personally, I think there's definitely more to the Vikings' demise than just injuries and some bad luck.


If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Bigwehrm wrote:
If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


Yes, coach has the right to call out whoever he wants, but personally I don't think it should be through the media. This is something that should be handled internally. Players are human too and don't like to be embarrassed like that publicly.


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
PsyDanny wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
If this alleged mutiny is true, something has to change. Somebody has got to step in and solve this, or it's going to get ugly. And as usual, we fans will get the short end of the stick.


Short end of the stick?

Stick? What stick?


Yeah, I thought it was called a switch. :gone:


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Purple Reign wrote:
Bigwehrm wrote:
If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


Yes, coach has the right to call out whoever he wants, but personally I don't think it should be through the media. This is something that should be handled internally. Players are human too and don't like to be embarrassed like that publicly.


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Bigwehrm wrote:

If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


Exactly

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000763503/article/deion-sanders-vikings-dbs-were-stupid-and-ignorant

Exactly how I feel. Listen to what Deion has to say. The stats show it. It's exactly what it was was stupid and ignorant. Surprised Rhodes and Newman were dumb enough to agree to that. Idiots

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Bigwehrm wrote:

If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


Exactly


Calling out a player to the media can be an effectibe tactic in certain situations, but Zimmer seems to think it is an all the time thing. You keep that stuff in house unless you really feel you need to escalate, you dont use it as your go to motivational technique.

Your already seeing the repercussions of this behavior, why respect a coach who doesnt respect his players.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Jordysghost wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Bigwehrm wrote:

If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


Exactly


Calling out a player to the media can be an effectibe tactic in certain situations, but Zimmer seems to think it is an all the time thing. You keep that stuff in house unless you really feel you need to escalate, you dont use it as your go to motivational technique.

Your already seeing the repercussions of this behavior, why respect a coach who doesnt respect his players.


How do you know he doesn't handle a lot of this behind closed doors? You don't. But he doesn't "respect his players"? You sound just as soft as the rest of society is nowadays. To say he doesn't "respect" his players shows how ignorant you really are. Also seeing the repercussions of his behavior?? He hasn't called out Rhodes or Newman once. So why would they not respect him? Makes zero sense. You might be better off sticking to paying attention to your Packers because you seem to know nothing regarding the Vikings

Two bad defensive games, more like 1.5 games and he doesn't respect his players? You sound like parents do these days. It's always the coaches fault right? Never the players. These arrogant idiots went and did their own thing thinking they knew more than the coach did and clearly they didn't. But it's never the players fault. Always the coach. Pretty sad if you ask me

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Purple Reign wrote:
PsyDanny wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
If this alleged mutiny is true, something has to change. Somebody has got to step in and solve this, or it's going to get ugly. And as usual, we fans will get the short end of the stick.


Short end of the stick?

Stick? What stick?


Yeah, I thought it was called a switch. :gone:

No, it's "stick."

It's not literal. It's an idiom. Don't know what an idiom is? Look it up.

Getting the "short end of the stick" refers to getting the worse end of the bargain, or to suffer the bad effects of the situation.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Jordysghost wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Bigwehrm wrote:

If they don't like getting called out, step up and play better. This ain't peewee ball. Coach has the right to call out whoever he wants. He should have been benching some more of them to get their attention.

I think he let the mutiny go on in the first half just to send a message and let em get embarrassed. More or less show he was right that their plan sucked and his was right. If the vikings get rid of Zim they will regret it.


Exactly


Calling out a player to the media can be an effectibe tactic in certain situations, but Zimmer seems to think it is an all the time thing. You keep that stuff in house unless you really feel you need to escalate, you dont use it as your go to motivational technique.

Your already seeing the repercussions of this behavior, why respect a coach who doesnt respect his players.


How do you know he doesn't handle a lot of this behind closed doors? You don't. But he doesn't "respect his players"? You sound just as soft as the rest of society is nowadays. To say he doesn't "respect" his players shows how ignorant you really are. Also seeing the repercussions of his behavior?? He hasn't called out Rhodes or Newman once. So why would they not respect him? Makes zero sense. You might be better off sticking to paying attention to your Packers because you seem to know nothing regarding the Vikings

Two bad defensive games, more like 1.5 games and he doesn't respect his players? You sound like parents do these days. It's always the coaches fault right? Never the players. These arrogant idiots went and did their own thing thinking they knew more than the coach did and clearly they didn't. But it's never the players fault. Always the coach. Pretty sad if you ask me[/quote]



If he has been making any attempt at all to handle it in house it clearly hasnt been working, given his pension for putting them on blast in the media.

And yea, sorry, constantly bringing players faults to the forefront of attention to national media is NOT respecting his players.

Such blatant acts of disregard/contempt affect the respect the coach gets from the entire lockerroom, not just the players mentioned, I have no problem with 'Hurting players feelings' but criticizing them to the national media on such an often basis is NOT indicative of a coach that respects his guys.

Its not like this is a one time thing for Zimmer, players dont want to feel like after one bad performance their coach is going to highlight their errors to national media and toss them to wolves.

I never said it was Zimmers fault his players mutinied, but you reap what you sew, if the players dont feel the coach has their back they are liable to go full moron.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Purple Reign wrote:
PsyDanny wrote:

Short end of the stick?

Stick? What stick?


Yeah, I thought it was called a switch. :gone:

No, it's "stick."

It's not literal. It's an idiom. Don't know what an idiom is? Look it up.

Getting the "short end of the stick" refers to getting the worse end of the bargain, or to suffer the bad effects of the situation.


I guess the reference to switch went right over your head. :wink:


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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
I like Zimmer's scheme on defense but this is concerning. He needs to sit down with the defensive backs and make sure everyone is on the same page or he will be gone fast.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Purple Reign wrote:
I guess the reference to switch went right over your head. :wink:

Holy cow. It's apparently still over my head. Honestly don't get it.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
J. Kapp 11 wrote:

Short end of the stick?

Stick? What stick?


Yeah, I thought it was called a switch. :gone:[/quote]
No, it's "stick."

It's not literal. It's an idiom. Don't know what an idiom is? Look it up.

Getting the "short end of the stick" refers to getting the worse end of the bargain, or to suffer the bad effects of the situation.[/quote]

I get the idiom. I was just thinking that the fans have not even gotten the short end of the stick, because it seems lately there is no stick at all.

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Post Re: Vikings' defensive discord raises concerning questions
Purple Reign wrote:

I guess the reference to switch went right over your head. :wink:


The switch was a few years ago. And, if I recall, you had to go cut your own.

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