What happened to our offensive line

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halfgiz
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What happened to our offensive line

Post by halfgiz » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:03 pm

Last year the offensive line was Kalil and Fusco, Berger, Harris and Clemmings. That line helped get AD a rushing title...
Move a year ahead we have had, Berger,Fusco and Clemming on the right side. Even Smith who beat out Clemmings was there for a few games.
And we could only average 2-2.5 ypc. Did Harris make that much of a difference?

The left side this season was Kalil, Boone and Berger center. Boone better than Fusco. Not much yardage off of that side of the line.
14 games and we haven't even had a 100 yard rushing game. We have had 3 players from last years line playing this season.
What's the problem??

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HardcoreVikesFan
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:28 pm

Short answer: It was never good to begin with.

Longer answer: Kalil would be major upgrade right now. Andre Smith would be better than Sirles, but the line would still be poor even if everyone was healthy. It is disgusting how terribly neglected this position has been in Minnesota. I don't see how it will get too much better next season either. Nick Easton, Jeremiah Sirles, Willie Beavers, and T.J. Clemmings are not future starters. They aren't even good backups.

The line needs to be gutted, but that isn't even feasible. Unfortunately, we will have to keep some bad players.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:04 pm

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Short answer: It was never good to begin with.

Longer answer: Kalil would be major upgrade right now. Andre Smith would be better than Sirles, but the line would still be poor even if everyone was healthy. It is disgusting how terribly neglected this position has been in Minnesota. I don't see how it will get too much better next season either. Nick Easton, Jeremiah Sirles, Willie Beavers, and T.J. Clemmings are not future starters. They aren't even good backups.

The line needs to be gutted, but that isn't even feasible. Unfortunately, we will have to keep some bad players.
Nick Easton has played well at C over the past few weeks. Sirles I can deal with. Beavers and Clemmings, no.

If Easton wasnt playing good enough they would have started Berger this week and put Kerin at guard but they didnt.
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halfgiz
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by halfgiz » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:17 pm

It’s surprising that we haven’t seen Hill yet considering the Vikings plucked him off the Jaguars’ practice squad and TJ Clemmings has been one of the worst rated tackles in the NFL. It would make sense to see what they have in Hill.

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:30 pm

halfgiz wrote:Last year the offensive line was Kalil and Fusco, Berger, Harris and Clemmings. That line helped get AD a rushing title...
Move a year ahead we have had, Berger,Fusco and Clemming on the right side. Even Smith who beat out Clemmings was there for a few games.
And we could only average 2-2.5 ypc. Did Harris make that much of a difference?

The left side this season was Kalil, Boone and Berger center. Boone better than Fusco. Not much yardage off of that side of the line.
14 games and we haven't even had a 100 yard rushing game. We have had 3 players from last years line playing this season.
What's the problem??
1) The left side this season was Kalil? Dude, Matt Kalil played just two games. Andre Smith played four. Phil Loadholt, who was supposed to make a difference, played zero.
2) Yes, Harris did a good job for the Vikings in 2015. So given the suck level of the rest of our line, yes ... he does make that much of a difference.
3) Due to injuries, we've had 3 different starters at each tackle position.
4) Fusco's play has spiraled down the commode faster than a lumberjack's poop after a chili dinner.

Bottom line: We stink.

Oh, but for the record, we're averaging 3.0 ypc. Woo hoo!
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:33 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: 1) The left side this season was Kalil? Dude, Matt Kalil played just two games. Andre Smith played four. Phil Loadholt, who was supposed to make a difference, played zero.
2) Yes, Harris did a good job for the Vikings in 2015. So given the suck level of the rest of our line, yes ... he does make that much of a difference.
3) Due to injuries, we've had 3 different starters at each tackle position.
4) Fusco's play has spiraled down the commode faster than a lumberjack's poop after a chili dinner.

Bottom line: We stink.

Oh, but for the record, we're averaging 3.0 ypc. Woo hoo!
Agree again Kapp. Harris was good. I don't care what anyone says. I said all of last year he was our best lineman and 95% of this board argued with say saying he was average to below average. He was a top 22-ish guard in the NFL last year according to PFF
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by mansquatch » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Harris was solid last year, I don't know if he was great. However, I'll take solid.

Been through this many times. Long story short: We never got to see the improved line play this season. Harris never took a snap. Kalil was injured after week 1 and put on IR after week 2. Smith was on IR by week 5.

On top of injuries we've now had 2 different players play at both guard positions and center. We've had three different players at each tackle position. In addition to the injuries we've had no continuity on the line for the entire season. Seems like nearly every game there is someone in a new or different position. Fusco has been the player who started the most games and most would argue that of our starters he is the weak link.

In addition to the injury related lack of continuity, we started the year with a line that had 3 of 5 players in a new a position from 2015. The only two who were in the same spot as 2015 were Berger and Kalil.

The early part of the season was almost guaranteed to be a struggle due to the last point. From there we never had a chance to benefit from consistency, plus we are starting the backup and backup to the backup at Tackle.

This probably won't be popular, but I think the continuity and injury thing equate to us not knowing what we have in our line. We definitely know that our backup tackle situation sucks. They need to add talent, but I think having our guys healthy and having them actually get some time to play together will equal them no longer being the worst line or amongst the worst lines. I doubt they'll be Dallas good, but I also doubt they'll be as bad as they are today.
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by chicagopurple » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:56 pm

lolol....everyone knows what we have....a whole lot of nothing for an OL.

Kalil is a bust...thas been obvious forever.
Clemmings...our newest bust
Fusco....a journeyman back up at best
The rest of the guys are NOT players who belong on a Super Bowl contender...THAT is all that matters.

a rebuild of the OL is unavoidable if you are honestly trying to FINALLY be a top notch team.

otherwise...have fun treading water in a sea of mediocrity

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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by losperros » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:56 pm

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Short answer: It was never good to begin with.
That sums it up. The Vikings OL has been deteriorating for a while now. What's left presently is a crippled mess.

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IrishViking
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by IrishViking » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:00 pm

chicagopurple wrote:lolol....everyone knows what we have....a whole lot of nothing for an OL.

Kalil is a bust...thas been obvious forever.
Clemmings...our newest bust
Fusco....a journeyman back up at best
The rest of the guys are NOT players who belong on a Super Bowl contender...THAT is all that matters.

a rebuild of the OL is unavoidable if you are honestly trying to FINALLY be a top notch team.

otherwise...have fun treading water in a sea of mediocrity

I don't think you understand what bust means. Clemmings is probably a bust. But Kalil is Far from a bust. more likely classified as a reach. But to call him a bust at the level he performed makes me question if you actually have ever watched an Oline play? :?

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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by Laserman » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:31 pm

Said it before and will continue to say it till Vikings wake up and understand that Championships are won in the trenches, not with flashy ball handler RBs WRs ect ect. The Line, The Line, The Line. Wake up Minnesota

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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by mansquatch » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:48 pm

The Harbaugh 49ers had great OL play, but never won it all. The recent DEN team had a patchwork line that was hardly the teams calling card. The recent SEA teams have not had great OL play either. Other SB teams have had good to great OL play, recent Ravens team was solid as were the Patriots.

I would submit that our currnet level of OL play is obviously not good enough, however I do not think we need a DAL level OL to win the big game either. We need to be more competitive up front for sure, but I suspect we are closer than it seems.
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by IIsweet » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:56 pm

Here's my offseason OL and obviously intending to upgrade...
LT - Beavers
LG - Boone
C - Easton
RG - Shepherd
RT - Clemmings

I think we have interior depth with Berger and Fusco
Harris is probably our RG or RT if he wants to play ?
I would offer Kalil a backup LT contract and Jake Long too

I would go after Riley Reiff or some LT in FA.
I would go get an OG like Pork Chop Warmack in FA.

In the draft I would look at Chad Wheeler, Adam Bisnowaty, Taylor Moton, Dan Skipper, Zack Banner, Tyrone Crowder, Pat Elfein, Ethan Pocic. These are OT, OG, and C that we should be able to land at least 2 with our 5 picks between the 2-4th rds

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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:04 pm

chicagopurple wrote:lolol....everyone knows what we have....a whole lot of nothing for an OL.

Kalil is a bust...thas been obvious forever.
Clemmings...our newest bust
Fusco....a journeyman back up at best
The rest of the guys are NOT players who belong on a Super Bowl contender...THAT is all that matters.

a rebuild of the OL is unavoidable if you are honestly trying to FINALLY be a top notch team.

otherwise...have fun treading water in a sea of mediocrity
To be drafted in the 4th round and be called a bust doesnt make much sense. I wouldnt consider Kalil a bust.

But some how Joe Berger (#6 C according to PFF) and Mike Harris who was a top 20 guard according to PFF last year dont belong on a SB contender. Yeah dude makes total sense :confused:
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Re: What happened to our offensive line

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:07 am

Another thing regarding this OL and the posts I'm seeing saying "it wasnt good to begin with so the injuries are just an excuse". Another reason I completely disagree with this (not saying original OL was great or anything before guys jump down my throat) is that our original OL was NOT season altering. This current offensive line is. With this offensive line, we've gotten our QB absolutely killed, ended up losing our OC mainly due to the OL issues and in turn had to modify our entire offense around quick drops and quick passes, no less we have no running game with AP out. Sit there and say what you will about AP but if I remember correctly, everyone on this board was saying he was washed up last year when he ran for 31 yards against SF, yet he ended up leading the league in rushing yards. The only game he really got a legitimate amount of carries was the Tennessee game which wasnt good just like SF last year.

But bottom line is, our starting OL we had all year last year wasnt the reason we lost in the playoffs. So it wasnt a season altering type OL that we had to modify our offense around like this current one is. And going into this year, we had a better LG than last year in Boone and a better RT than last year in Smith. Even with our original OL playing at their worst, it wouldnt have been season altering. If anything there were better players on it than last year (minus Fusco).

So guys can sit here and ignore the injury side of it all they want and point the finger at this guy and that guy but bottom line is, after we lost our tackles, this season gradually started to get much worse. It's clear as day. The post-injury offensive line ruined this season when you look at the big picture
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