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 Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15 
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
They've been top 2 in scoring all year and like I said, after one bad game they are all of the sudden overrated? No less Harrison Smith and Trae Waynes were out this game. Or the fact that you say the defense is a "7" under Zimmer. If they aren't elite I would say they are awfully close. Not a "7" or "overrated". I don't care what you say, they are a super bowl caliber defense

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
We deserve the team we got. Seriously, like spielman is somehow going bring in 4 or 5 competent lineman during the off season and this team will then be super bowl bound. Let's just hope one eyed jack doesn't leave too much time on the clock on the final drive, during the super bowl.


Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:41 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
They've been top 2 in scoring all year and like I said, after one bad game they are all of the sudden overrated?


It's not sudden and it's not just one bad game, as Paul pointed out.

Quote:
Or the fact that you say the defense is a "7" under Zimmer. If they aren't elite I would say they are awfully close. Not a "7" or "overrated". I don't care what you say, they are a super bowl caliber defense


All too often, they look the kind of defense that would collapse and lose the Super Bowl if they were even capable of reaching it. Whether the word elite fits them or not really doesn't matter. They end up on the wrong side of too many dominant performances. They've collapsed in a few close games this year and they are clearly not an elite run defense.


Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:40 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
They've been top 2 in scoring all year and like I said, after one bad game they are all of the sudden overrated?


It's not sudden and it's not just one bad game, as Paul pointed out.

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Or the fact that you say the defense is a "7" under Zimmer. If they aren't elite I would say they are awfully close. Not a "7" or "overrated". I don't care what you say, they are a super bowl caliber defense


All too often, they look the kind of defense that would collapse and lose the Super Bowl if they were even capable of reaching it. Whether the word elite fits them or not really doesn't matter. They end up on the wrong side of too many dominant performances. They've collapsed in a few close games this year and they are clearly not an elite run defense.


Outside of yesterday's game we were top 2 in every category and maybe about 15th in run D. You can sit there and nitpick anything you want but bottom line is they've been all year until yesterday's game. Not just up there a game or two. Literally all year. No less they are probably on the field way more than 90% of defenses in this league due to our offense. That's pretty amazing to stay up there that long given the circumstances. To say this defense is "overrated" or a "7" when Fraziers was a "5" is laughable if you ask me. How can you be in the top 5 of just about every defensive stat there is and be in the middle of the pack with run defense and be a "7"??

What's even more laughable is he considers Fraziers a "5" when his defense was DEAD LAST his last year here!!! But somehow Zims D is overrated and a "7" and Fraziers is a "5". This is my point of how ridiculous that sounds

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Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:23 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
joe h wrote:
Let's just hope one eyed jack doesn't leave too much time on the clock on the final drive, during the super bowl.


Not sure what to even say regarding that comment :confused:

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
the whole conversation is absurd......with the exception of the Farve year, NONE of the Vikes teams have been honest contenders for a Super Bowl Championship. Its silly delusions to claim otherwise. They are a second-class organization. They have NEVER proven themselves to be otherwise. From top to bottom, they need to set a standard of excellence and eliminate under-performers without mercy. The ONLY thing they have been pretty good at is spending Wilf's money and settling for second best. The only first rate thing about this club is their pretty little home field....sadly it is filled to the brim with mediocrity.


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
joe h wrote:
Let's just hope one eyed jack doesn't leave too much time on the clock on the final drive, during the super bowl.


Not sure what to even say regarding that comment :confused:

I am so sick and tired of that back stabbing, pos, throwing his players and coordinators under the bus, when all he had to do is wait 15 seconds to call a timeout during the Detroit game, and we would effectively be in a three way tie for the division. Zimmer can make a mistake rarely seen at the middle school level, yet he still has a cult of fans in this town. The guy was taking his head set off when the offense had the ball, meaning he had zero control of the game when the most important position was on the field! He has no spine to confront hack spielman. He cannot even bench a player without seeking permission. We have a running back that will only play if we're making a playoff run!

Zimmer is a great defensive coordinator, unfortunately he is also a terrible head coach.


Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:34 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I don't care what you say, they are a super bowl caliber defense


Super Bowl caliber defenses don't get shutout at home to an offense that has been struggling all year. Super Bowl caliber defenses would at least be able to record one God damn sack against three rookie offensive lineman. Super Bowl caliber defenses don't get dragged up and down the field by the Bears. Super Bowl caliber defenses aren't 16th in the NFL on generating 3rd down stops. Super Bowl caliber defenses aren't 20th in the NFL in allowing red zone scores. Super Bowl caliber defenses don't struggle against the run...

I could go on and on. This defense is good, borderline great - not Super Bowl caliber.

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Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:05 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Oh my goodness :confused:

So far over the last month I have heard:

-"Zimmer is a terrible head coach"
-"Zimmer should be on the hot seat"
-"Zimmer should be given one more year"
-"This defense is overrated"
-"This defense is a 7/10 and Frazier's was a 5/10"
-"We are in worse shape now than we were when Spielman got here"
-"Spielman should be fired and that Zim should be following him"
-"Laquon Treadwell and Mackensie Alexander are busts"
-"Everyone on the OL is terrible"
-"Sam Bradford is the problem"
-"Adrian Peterson cant fix our running game"
-"This team is the worst team in Vikings history at 7-7"
-"Rick Spielman is a failure"
-"The future is slipping lower" (even though we have most of this team coming back next year plus 5 picks in the first four rounds)
-"Time to move on an upgrade the entire front office".


^Many of those reactions are pretty pathetic and sad if you ask me. Nobody is anymore ticked about how this season went then I am. However, I also understand what 95% of the cause of this season was and I am open-minded enough to realize it. That's injuries to the 4 most key players on your offense. Something that just about any team in the NFL couldnt overcome. I also understand that we have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds this year as well as most of the team returning so I dont get how people can say "the future is slipping lower".

Everyone is ticked. I get that. So am I. But the drastic overreactions on here when the team isnt doing well is quite tiring. I mean you can see for yourself with what I posted above. I mean I get on here and feel like we're the 0-14 Browns and have zero hope for anything to happen for the next 10+ years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you truly believe that injuries or no injuries, this just isnt a good team I will tell you, you are dead wrong. Last year proved what kind of talent we have on this team. If you cant sit here and say the Vikings are AT WORST a 10-6 team all the way up to 12-4ish team if those injuries dont happen then I truly, truly question your football knowledge. Yet we're still at 7-7 even WITH all that happening.

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Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:19 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I could go on and on. This defense is good, borderline great - not Super Bowl caliber.


If a defense is "borderline great", I would imagine it would be a "borderline SB defense". Great defenses win SBs. If you take this defense and put them with a middle of the road Baltimore offense. You cant sit here and tell me this team couldnt win a SB. Because I believe they most certainly could. You arent taking into consideration how long this defense is on the field compared to others this year. Yet it is still top of the league in just about every category. Riddle me that

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Zimmer has got out coached in more than one game this year which is slight concern. Hopefully he has learned from those games.
Problems with the defense run deeper than the front line. One of the problems is you can't expect Chad Greenaway to cover WR's and RB's running pass routes...he doesn't have that kind of speed anymore.


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I could go on and on. This defense is good, borderline great - not Super Bowl caliber.


If a defense is "borderline great", I would imagine it would be a "borderline SB defense". Great defenses win SBs. If you take this defense and put them with a middle of the road Baltimore offense. You cant sit here and tell me this team couldnt win a SB. Because I believe they most certainly could. You arent taking into consideration how long this defense is on the field compared to others this year. Yet it is still top of the league in just about every category. Riddle me that


You keep harping on the defense being on the field too long because the offense can't sustain drives. If the defense could prevent the other team's offense from sustaining drives, then it wouldn't matter. The main reason the defense is on the field so long is because they can't limit the opposing offense to 3 and outs, which is not the sign of an elite defense.


Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:25 pm
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
injuries are not why we are a sad joke this year.....Teddy is not a QB who will carry you to SB...nothing he has done supports that idea YET.

AP is on the career downslope. Teams have figured him out a bit. He tends to fumble. The league rules are designed to discourage a run oriented team.

Our OL is useless. Neither AP or Teddy would have accomplished much of anything with the Core of Ol that Spielman "built" through neglect.

Our coach appears to be nothing more then a skilled Defensive coordinator.

any discussions about Super Bowl aspirations are pure fantasy.


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
I feel like the guys on defense just get tired of carrying this team. I know if I were on that side it would get tiring to see terrible product put on the field on offense every Sunday. Nice got a three and out. Well looks like Sam & Co. gave us a nice two minute break, then Locke shanks it 28 yards on the 48 yard line. Thankfully there are media timeouts.


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Purple Reign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I could go on and on. This defense is good, borderline great - not Super Bowl caliber.


If a defense is "borderline great", I would imagine it would be a "borderline SB defense". Great defenses win SBs. If you take this defense and put them with a middle of the road Baltimore offense. You cant sit here and tell me this team couldnt win a SB. Because I believe they most certainly could. You arent taking into consideration how long this defense is on the field compared to others this year. Yet it is still top of the league in just about every category. Riddle me that


You keep harping on the defense being on the field too long because the offense can't sustain drives. If the defense could prevent the other team's offense from sustaining drives, then it wouldn't matter. The main reason the defense is on the field so long is because they can't limit the opposing offense to 3 and outs, which is not the sign of an elite defense.


We've been #1 and #2 in points allowed all season until yesterday. What more can you ask for all year when your offense struggles this bad???? But we can't score. I feel like the defense scores more than the offense. They've clearly been preventing other teams from sustaining drives since we were allowing an average of 17 points all season. That argument makes zero sense

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
chicagopurple wrote:
injuries are not why we are a sad joke this year.


That's a false statement if I ever heard one. I'm not saying this offense would be through the roof or something but that is a HUGE reason why they are struggling more than ever. Period

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
We've been #1 and #2 in points allowed all season until yesterday. What more can you ask for all year when your offense struggles this bad???? But we can't score. I feel like the defense scores more than the offense. They've clearly been preventing other teams from sustaining drives since we were allowing an average of 17 points all season. That argument makes zero sense


I am referring to your claim that the offense is the reason the defense gets tired because it is on the field too long. Just because a defense doesn't give up a lot of points doesn't mean they aren't giving up a lot of yards (ie. sustained drives - whether they end up getting points or not). Here are a couple of stats to think about. To date, the offense has run 870 plays while the defense has been on the field for 876 plays, an almost even 50-50 split. The Vikings also have an edge in time of possession with an average of 30:36 per game versus 29:52 so I think blaming the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field makes zero sense.


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Not sure if the vikings fans posting here are real fans just angry fans, which is understandable, or just frauds because some of these statements are just out there...


Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:09 pm
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Dmizzle0 wrote:
Not sure if the vikings fans posting here are real fans just angry fans, which is understandable, or just frauds because some of these statements are just out there...


You're telling me

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Purple Reign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
We've been #1 and #2 in points allowed all season until yesterday. What more can you ask for all year when your offense struggles this bad???? But we can't score. I feel like the defense scores more than the offense. They've clearly been preventing other teams from sustaining drives since we were allowing an average of 17 points all season. That argument makes zero sense


I am referring to your claim that the offense is the reason the defense gets tired because it is on the field too long. Just because a defense doesn't give up a lot of points doesn't mean they aren't giving up a lot of yards (ie. sustained drives - whether they end up getting points or not). Here are a couple of stats to think about. To date, the offense has run 870 plays while the defense has been on the field for 876 plays, an almost even 50-50 split. The Vikings also have an edge in time of possession with an average of 30:36 per game versus 29:52 so I think blaming the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field makes zero sense.


Ok? They aren't giving up a lot of yards. They are middle of the road in run defense and a top 3 pass defense. And #6 now in total defense. They were number 3 before last game

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Purple Reign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
We've been #1 and #2 in points allowed all season until yesterday. What more can you ask for all year when your offense struggles this bad???? But we can't score. I feel like the defense scores more than the offense. They've clearly been preventing other teams from sustaining drives since we were allowing an average of 17 points all season. That argument makes zero sense


I am referring to your claim that the offense is the reason the defense gets tired because it is on the field too long. Just because a defense doesn't give up a lot of points doesn't mean they aren't giving up a lot of yards (ie. sustained drives - whether they end up getting points or not). Here are a couple of stats to think about. To date, the offense has run 870 plays while the defense has been on the field for 876 plays, an almost even 50-50 split. The Vikings also have an edge in time of possession with an average of 30:36 per game versus 29:52 so I think blaming the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field makes zero sense.

The difference should be obvious.

Until yesterday, the defense was tops in the league for scoring. Meanwhile, the offense is just about dead last.

I don't think it has anything to do with being tired. It has to do with being exasperated at an offense that almost never scores. Look at yesterday. The Vikings defense started in a fairly similar manner to other games. Indy got in field goal range, but the Vikings stopped them. But then came the unsportsmanlike penalty on the second FG, and all of a sudden Indy is scoring a touchdown. Ironically, the penalty was on defensive starter Linval Joseph. Then Adrian Peterson fumbled away a promising scoring opportunity, and it just seemed like the defense gave up.

So again, I don't see it as fatigue. I see it as exasperation. These guys are pros, so it's not an excuse. But it is a possible reason.

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Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:21 pm
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Purple Reign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
We've been #1 and #2 in points allowed all season until yesterday. What more can you ask for all year when your offense struggles this bad???? But we can't score. I feel like the defense scores more than the offense. They've clearly been preventing other teams from sustaining drives since we were allowing an average of 17 points all season. That argument makes zero sense


I am referring to your claim that the offense is the reason the defense gets tired because it is on the field too long. Just because a defense doesn't give up a lot of points doesn't mean they aren't giving up a lot of yards (ie. sustained drives - whether they end up getting points or not). Here are a couple of stats to think about. To date, the offense has run 870 plays while the defense has been on the field for 876 plays, an almost even 50-50 split. The Vikings also have an edge in time of possession with an average of 30:36 per game versus 29:52 so I think blaming the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field makes zero sense.

The difference should be obvious.

Until yesterday, the defense was tops in the league for scoring. Meanwhile, the offense is just about dead last.

I don't think it has anything to do with being tired. It has to do with being exasperated at an offense that almost never scores. Look at yesterday. The Vikings defense started in a fairly similar manner to other games. Indy got in field goal range, but the Vikings stopped them. But then came the unsportsmanlike penalty on the second FG, and all of a sudden Indy is scoring a touchdown. Ironically, the penalty was on defensive starter Linval Joseph. Then Adrian Peterson fumbled away a promising scoring opportunity, and it just seemed like the defense gave up.

So again, I don't see it as fatigue. I see it as exasperation. These guys are pros, so it's not an excuse. But it is a possible reason.


Could be. Whatever it is, for this defense to continue to be top of the league in just about every category shows how good they are. You guys want to get bent out of shape over the last game, go ahead. But the proof is in the stats. I mean denvers defense has been considered elite and they have a MUCH worse run defense than us. They are 29th in the league. I feel like there are many overreactors on here that are getting bent out of shape over last game. This defense is MUCH better than some are giving them credit for

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Purple Reign wrote:
I am referring to your claim that the offense is the reason the defense gets tired because it is on the field too long. Just because a defense doesn't give up a lot of points doesn't mean they aren't giving up a lot of yards (ie. sustained drives - whether they end up getting points or not). Here are a couple of stats to think about. To date, the offense has run 870 plays while the defense has been on the field for 876 plays, an almost even 50-50 split. The Vikings also have an edge in time of possession with an average of 30:36 per game versus 29:52 so I think blaming the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field makes zero sense.


Ok? They aren't giving up a lot of yards. They are middle of the road in run defense and a top 3 pass defense. And #6 now in total defense. They were number 3 before last game


However you claim they are on the field a lot more compared to other teams and get tired. How can that be if they aren't giving up many yards/points? I think you have a misconception that the defense is on the field so much more than other teams. Have you really looked at the stats?

Here is a list of the top 10 defenses (based on points allowed) and how many plays they have been on the field this year. There are very few teams that are on the field less than the Vikings - so that argument doesn't fly.

NE 885
SEA 903
NYG 950
DEN 948
DAL 861
MIN 876
BAL 871
KC 940
PIT 846
DET 839


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Purple Reign wrote:

However you claim they are on the field a lot more compared to other teams and get tired. How can that be if they aren't giving up many yards/points? I think you have a misconception that the defense is on the field so much more than other teams. Have you really looked at the stats?

Here is a list of the top 10 defenses (based on points allowed) and how many plays they have been on the field this year. There are very few teams that are on the field less than the Vikings - so that argument doesn't fly.

NE 885
SEA 903
NYG 950
DEN 948
DAL 861
MIN 876
BAL 871
KC 940
PIT 846
DET 839


I appreciate the stats and have no problem eating crow on that one. However, I would like to know how many 3 and outs/short drives we've allowed compared to those teams. I have no idea where you would find those stats

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
J. Kapp 11 wrote:

So again, I don't see it as fatigue. I see it as exasperation. These guys are pros, so it's not an excuse. But it is a possible reason.


I agree. I think the offensive ineptitude affects the moral of the defense, and I think its also got Zimmer rattled and off of his "A" game. I can't imagine how hard it must be to stay motivated on defense when you know you will get no help from your offense. Professional or not, they're human.

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Purple Martin wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:

So again, I don't see it as fatigue. I see it as exasperation. These guys are pros, so it's not an excuse. But it is a possible reason.


I agree. I think the offensive ineptitude affects the moral of the defense, and I think its also got Zimmer rattled and off of his "A" game. I can't imagine how hard it must be to stay motivated on defense when you know you will get no help from your offense. Professional or not, they're human.


Exactly. This defense is not "overrated", or average or a "7/10". This defense is very very good. This offense doesnt help them in any way.

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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Purple Reign wrote:

However you claim they are on the field a lot more compared to other teams and get tired. How can that be if they aren't giving up many yards/points? I think you have a misconception that the defense is on the field so much more than other teams. Have you really looked at the stats?

Here is a list of the top 10 defenses (based on points allowed) and how many plays they have been on the field this year. There are very few teams that are on the field less than the Vikings - so that argument doesn't fly.

NE 885
SEA 903
NYG 950
DEN 948
DAL 861
MIN 876
BAL 871
KC 940
PIT 846
DET 839


I appreciate the stats and have no problem eating crow on that one. However, I would like to know how many 3 and outs/short drives we've allowed compared to those teams. I have no idea where you would find those stats


Good to see that you can admit when you are wrong (some people on here can't do that :) ). Yeah, I'm not sure if you can find that kind of stat without going through each game's play-by-play.


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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Purple Reign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Purple Reign wrote:

However you claim they are on the field a lot more compared to other teams and get tired. How can that be if they aren't giving up many yards/points? I think you have a misconception that the defense is on the field so much more than other teams. Have you really looked at the stats?

Here is a list of the top 10 defenses (based on points allowed) and how many plays they have been on the field this year. There are very few teams that are on the field less than the Vikings - so that argument doesn't fly.

NE 885
SEA 903
NYG 950
DEN 948
DAL 861
MIN 876
BAL 871
KC 940
PIT 846
DET 839


I appreciate the stats and have no problem eating crow on that one. However, I would like to know how many 3 and outs/short drives we've allowed compared to those teams. I have no idea where you would find those stats


Good to see that you can admit when you are wrong (some people on here can't do that :) ). Yeah, I'm not sure if you can find that kind of stat without going through each game's play-by-play.


If I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it. I'm usually a big stat guy and know/look a lot of that stuff up but that was one stat I didnt even think to look up. It just seemed by the naked eye that our defense has been on the field forever which wasnt true

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Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:57 am
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
If I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it. I'm usually a big stat guy and know/look a lot of that stuff up but that was one stat I didnt even think to look up. It just seemed by the naked eye that our defense has been on the field forever which wasnt true


You might have been wrong about that stat, but your point about three and outs and short drives is valid. Also factor in the stress on any defense required to basically win the games by itself while the offense can't finish drives, kicks field goals instead of scores TDs (when they don't miss the FG), and basically falters in key moments.


Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Colts @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15
losperros wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
If I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it. I'm usually a big stat guy and know/look a lot of that stuff up but that was one stat I didnt even think to look up. It just seemed by the naked eye that our defense has been on the field forever which wasnt true


You might have been wrong about that stat, but your point about three and outs and short drives is valid. Also factor in the stress on any defense required to basically win the games by itself while the offense can't finish drives, kicks field goals instead of scores TDs (when they don't miss the FG), and basically falters in key moments.


Very true :!:

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Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:10 pm
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