Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah! Don't you dare, Steve!

Joshua Garnett was sitting right there and went just a few picks later. Jason Spriggs and Cody Whitehair were available too. If they felt that pick was too high for one of them, perhaps they could have managed a trade down.

There are almost always other options. It's not like they were required to draft Treadwell, although he could turn out to be a very good player for them in the long run. Only time will tell.

Garnett has been a healthy scratch most of the season however is pushing to start now because of Davis retiring again. Spriggs is an absolute mystery and hasn't seen the field in GB. Whitehair is a center that can play guard. Center isn't our problem since we have the #6 center according to PFF and have Easton who showed he's quite solid. He wasn't going to unseat Boone. So his only hope would've been Fusco. However how do any of those lineman help our current situation? Interior isn't a problem outside of Fusco who was given another shot to come back to what he was before at RG but it didn't work out. Spriggs could be another Clemmings for all we know. And he was the only tackle taken from #23 all through round 2. So it was either him or nobody in the first two rounds.

It's not as easy as many think. You named 3 guys. Two of which are mysteries and one that's at a position opposite of where our main struggles are and that's offensive tackle.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I understand. I was just trying to lighten the mood since it was getting a bit intense (after you posted, not in your post).

We're just using the word "project" differently. I don't attach a particularly negative connotation to the word myself. As I see it, project players can be as worthy of a draft pick as players who are further along in their development and they can pay big dividends down the road. To me, the main downside in such cases is the additional time it takes to develop the player but they don't necessarily have to be a "boom or bust" type with a significant downside.

Others may disagree with this take on the term but I think there's a spectrum along which a player can be considered a project. On that spectrum, there are short term projects and long term projects and I say that recognizing most rookies face some learning curve. I'm trying to differentiate between rookies who can step in and make an immediate impact with significant playing time and a rookie like Treadwell, who truly seems to need the development time before making much of an on-field contribution. All rookies face a learning curve but I think we can agree it's steeper for some than others. I think Treadwell is a short term project. Barring an unexpected explosion in playing time and productivity from him in December, it sure doesn't look to me like he's going to offer much return on investment in his first season.

My thing is Patterson was labeled a "project" which he definitely was. But him and Treadwell were completely different coming out and Treadwell was a much more polished WR than Patterson was. So that's why I don't understand how those two can both fall under that category

[Mothman]

Garnett has been a healthy scratch most of the season however is pushing to start now because of Davis retiring again. Spriggs is an absolute mystery and hasn't seen the field in GB. Whitehair is a center that can play guard. Center isn't our problem since we have the #6 center according to PFF and have Easton who showed he's quite solid. He wasn't going to unseat Boone. So his only hope would've been Fusco. However how do any of those lineman help our current situation?

They could help by infusing good, young talent into a line that needs it and moving the Vikes in the direction of building a younger, better offensive line. Garnett's playing well of late. He was a good prospect. Whitehair is not a "center who can play guard". He played inside and outside in college and projected as a guard in the NFL. He just has the versatility to play center as well. How could a player who was able to come in and start immediately and who has literally played both tackle positions, guard and center in his football career have helped the Vikings this season? Gee, I wonder...

Spriggs is no mystery. He's a 4 year college starter with excellent athleticism who needs to get stronger. Since the Vikes don't have a starting tackle signed for next season it shouldn't be hard to grasp how drafting someone who might be ready for that role in 2017 might have been beneficial. It certainly shouldn't be hard to imagine how he might have been an upgrade as a backup over T.J. Clemmings, who might be the worst tackle I've ever seen in a Vikings uniform.

Interior isn't a problem outside of Fusco who was given another shot to come back to what he was before at RG but it didn't work out.

Of course it's a freakin' problem. You just acknowledged it.

It's not as easy as many think. You named 3 guys. Two of which are mysteries and one that's at a position opposite of where our main struggles are and that's offensive tackle.

For Pete's sake, stop saying "It's not as easy as many think" when I'm not saying it's easy.

[Mothman]

My thing is Patterson was labeled a "project" which he definitely was. But him and Treadwell were completely different coming out and Treadwell was a much more polished WR than Patterson was. So that's why I don't understand how those two can both fall under that category

I literally just explained that in the last paragraph you quoted.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

They could help by infusing good, young talent into a line that needs it and moving the Vikes in the direction of building a younger, better offensive line. Garnett's playing well of late. He was a good prospect. Whitehair is not a "center who can play guard". He played inside and outside in college and projected as a guard in the NFL. He just has the versatility to play center as well. How could a player who was able to come in and start immediately and who has literally played both tackle positions, guard and center in his football career have helped the Vikings this season? Gee, I wonder...

Spriggs is no mystery. He's a 4 year college starter with excellent athleticism who needs to get stronger. Since the Vikes don't have a starting tackle signed for next season it shouldn't be hard to grasp how drafting someone who might be ready for that role in 2017 might have been beneficial. It certainly shouldn't be hard to imagine how he might have been an upgrade as a backup over T.J. Clemmings, who might be the worst tackle I've ever seen in a Vikings uniform.

I can attest to Spriggs' ability. I twice watched him from the opposing sideline as the Hoosiers battled the Hawkeyes. That guy is something else. I would have loved him on the team.

Cody Whitehair was a guy with whom the team was linked numerously this past offseason. I thought there was a good chance we were going to draft him.

Finally, I was a massive proponent of this team drafting Myles Jack. I know he wouldn't have helped our offense any, but there is ZERO doubt Myles Jack would have made this team better. More so than the vanishing act that is Laquon Treadwell.

There is still a lot of time for Laquon, but there is simply no denying he has been a massive disappointment this season.

[Pondering Her Percy]

They could help by infusing good, young talent into a line that needs it and moving the Vikes in the direction of building a younger, better offensive line. Garnett's playing well of late. He was a good prospect. Whitehair is not a "center who can play guard". He played inside and outside in college and projected as a guard in the NFL. He just has the versatility to play center as well. How could a player who was able to come in and start immediately and who has literally played both tackle positions, guard and center in his football career have helped the Vikings this season? Gee, I wonder...


Spriggs is no mystery. He's a 4 year college starter with excellent athleticism who needs to get stronger. Since the Vikes don't have a starting tackle signed for next season it shouldn't be hard to grasp how drafting someone who might be ready for that role in 2017 might have been beneficial. It certainly shouldn't be hard to imagine how he might have been an upgrade as a backup over T.J. Clemmings, who might be the worst tackle I've ever seen in a Vikings uniform.

Whitehair is 6'4!!!! You think he could all of the sudden slide over to tackle in the NFL as a 6'4 offensive lineman?? No. Is there even an active NFL OT that is 6'4? So yeah, Whitehair is an interior lineman in the NFL.

As for Spriggs, you could've said the same thing about the last however many first round OTs in the past 2 years. Yet 90% of them havent panned out, are getting benched, or playing average to below average. Spriggs is a mystery until he gets onto an NFL field. You can sit here and talk about all the good things TJ Clemmings or any other tackle did in college. However, it means nothing when they are on an NFL field. Just because Spriggs "was a 4 year starter with excellent athleticism" doesn't mean it translates. So yes, he's a mystery.

Of course it's a freakin' problem. You just acknowledged it.

I'm putting it in comparison to the OT problem. So relax. I can be ok with Fusco for another year. I cant be ok with no OTs worth a damn.

For Pete's sake, stop saying "It's not as easy as many think" when I'm not saying it's easy.

Did I say "Jim thinks it's easy"????? No. I was referring to people on the board. Not necessarily you. Pump the brakes

[Jordysghost]

Garnett has been a healthy scratch most of the season however is pushing to start now because of Davis retiring again. Spriggs is an absolute mystery and hasn't seen the field in GB. Whitehair is a center that can play guard. Center isn't our problem since we have the #6 center according to PFF and have Easton who showed he's quite solid. He wasn't going to unseat Boone. So his only hope would've been Fusco. However how do any of those lineman help our current situation? Interior isn't a problem outside of Fusco who was given another shot to come back to what he was before at RG but it didn't work out. Spriggs could be another Clemmings for all we know. And he was the only tackle taken from #23 all through round 2. So it was either him or nobody in the first two rounds.

It's not as easy as many think. You named 3 guys. Two of which are mysteries and one that's at a position opposite of where our main struggles are and that's offensive tackle.

Spriggs was recently forced into action at G due to injury, and he played absolutely fantastically, both against Eagles Fletcher Cox and the Texans.

[Mothman]

Whitehair is 6'4!!!! You think he could all of the sudden slide over to tackle in the NFL as a 6'4 offensive lineman?? No. Is there even an active NFL OT that is 6'4? So yeah, Whitehair is an interior lineman in the NFL

That's why I wrote that he was "projected as a guard in the NFL".

As for Spriggs, you could've said the same thing about the last however many first round OTs in the past 2 years. Yet 90% of them havent panned out, are getting benched, or playing average to below average. Spriggs is a mystery until he gets onto an NFL field. You can sit here and talk about all the good things TJ Clemmings or any other tackle did in college. However, it means nothing when they are on an NFL field. Just because Spriggs "was a 4 year starter with excellent athleticism" doesn't mean it translates. So yes, he's a mystery.

Much like Treadwell, eh?

Okay, Spriggs is a mystery, just like every player was on draft day since none of them had played an NFL snap yet. That doesn't change the fact that he was a legitimate option, as were Whitehair and Garnett. As HardcoreVikesfan mentioned above, Myles Jack was a legit alternative too. You wanted to know who the Vikes could have drafted instead of Treadwell. You've now been given 4 names and, of course, there were other players available too, other choices the team could have made.

Did I say "Jim thinks it's easy"????? No. I was referring to people on the board. Not necessarily you. Pump the brakes

Well, on behalf of "people on the board": you keep repeating that same phrase again and again even though nobody is actually saying it's easy to be a GM or to build an NFL team. It's both tiresome and unnecessary. We all understand that it's not easy and by "we" I mean "people on the board".

[Mothman]

Spriggs was recently forced into action at G due to injury, and he played absolutely fantastically, both against Eagles Fletcher Cox and the Texans.

Thanks for the info, Jordy. Much appreciated.

[Pondering Her Percy]

@Jim

Of course they are all mysteries. But you've given me two inside options which wouldn't have fixed much this year and an outside option that was our only hope that we probably would've had to reach for. I'm looking for tackles. And there was one option for us and who knows what he would've done.

And where is this Myles Jack thing coming from now? We primarily run 2 LB sets with Barr and Kendricks. Greenway barely plays anymore. Where do you think Myles Jack is fitting in? At WLB so he can play 25 snaps a game? If you're going to sit there and say we flopped on picking Treadwell, but then say Myles Jack was a good option doesn't make much sense to me.

And I simply was saying that people act like drafting OL was some easy thing that Spielman missed on last year. All I hear is "shoulda drafted OL" but then don't back it up. That's what's tiring if you ask me.

[Mothman]

@Jim

Of course they are all mysteries. But you've given me two inside options which wouldn't have fixed much this year and an outside option that was our only hope that we probably would've had to reach for. I'm looking for tackles. And there was one option for us and who knows what he would've done.

One option is an option. That's the point.

You're looking for tackles but I want to see them build a better offensive line across the board, not just this year but in the future. When you responded to Steve, you wrote "Don't dare say OL because there wasn't much of any sitting at 23", not "don't say tackle" so I gave you some OL options, all of whom were legitimate choices available to the Vikings.

And I simply was saying that people act like drafting OL was some easy thing that Spielman missed on last year. All I hear is "shoulda drafted OL" but then don't back it up. That's what's tiring if you ask me.

I just backed it up! What do you think we're talking about? I gave you the names of o-linemen worth drafting, o-linemen they could have drafted, one of whom was selected just a few picks later. If you only want tackles, that's a criteria you've chosen to impose on things, not one the rest of us have agreed upon. You wanted options. You've been given options. If you don't like them, that's fine but they were available and let's not forget that "Trader Rick" could have potentially moved up or down in the draft to get someone too.

This has been true for a number of drafts. The line didn't end up in it's current state because it was impossible to do anything to prevent it's deterioration.

[CbusVikesFan]

Hey Jim,
didn't you know that all of these players are PHP'S children? You would think so the way he defends them. But I do admire the passion though.

[CbusVikesFan]

Whitehair is 6'4!!!! You think he could all of the sudden slide over to tackle in the NFL as a 6'4 offensive lineman?? No. Is there even an active NFL OT that is 6'4? So yeah, Whitehair is an interior lineman in the NFL.

As for Spriggs, you could've said the same thing about the last however many first round OTs in the past 2 years. Yet 90% of them havent panned out, are getting benched, or playing average to below average. Spriggs is a mystery until he gets onto an NFL field. You can sit here and talk about all the good things TJ Clemmings or any other tackle did in college. However, it means nothing when they are on an NFL field. Just because Spriggs "was a 4 year starter with excellent athleticism" doesn't mean it translates. So yes, he's a mystery.
I'm putting it in comparison to the OT problem. So relax. I can be ok with Fusco for another year. I cant be ok with no OTs worth a damn.
Did I say "Jim thinks it's easy"????? No. I was referring to people on the board. Not necessarily you. Pump the brakes

Hmmm, people on the board? Okay, I feel that this is mostly projected at me because I criticized players and picks. Question: Can I not criticize if I disagree with the status quo? Are my opinions absolute and 100% truisms? No, of course not. And if I may, neither are yours. So it's not necessary to grind it out like a heavyweight fight. From what I have seen from recent drafts, Vikings could have done better. Doesn't mean a player is a bust, project, or anything else.

[Pondering Her Percy]

One option is an option. That's the point.

You're looking for tackles but I want to see them build a better offensive line across the board, not just this year but in the future. When you responded to Steve, you wrote "Don't dare say OL because there wasn't much of any sitting at 23", not "don't say tackle" so I gave you some OL options, all of whom were legitimate choices available to the Vikings.

I agree that they need to build a better OL. But the reason I am saying tackle is because our OL would look much better right now if we had someone worth a damn at OT. Not a first round guard or center sitting on the bench. We could still function this year. Having a first round guard on the bench still doesnt allow us to function in our current state. Having a tackle possibly does. And our only shot for the most part was Spriggs. It's not like there was 5 tackles out there to choose from and we passed on all of them.

I just backed it up. What do you think we're talking about? I gave you the names of o-linemen worth drafting, o-linemen they could have drafted, one of whom was selected just a few picks later. If you only want tackles, that's a criteria you've chosen to impose on things, not one the rest of us have agreed upon. You wanted options. You've been given options. If you don't like them, that's fine but they were available and let's not forget that "Trader Rick" could have potentially moved up or down in the draft to get someone too.

This has been true for a number of drafts. The line didn't end up in it's current state because it was impossible to do anything to prevent it's deterioration.

I'm really not sure why you always feel like I'm directing everything towards you. Nor did I say anything was impossible. It's simply that the options were extremely limited over the past few years especially at OT.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Hey Jim,
didn't you know that all of these players are PHP'S children? You would think so the way he defends them. But I do admire the passion though.

This all started with Treadwell being a bust/project/or whatever else you want to call him. My point from the beginning was it's impossible to know what he is or what he can do when he has next to nothing for a sample size. And this is now where we ended up. I wanted Treadwell from day 1. I wasnt sold on Johnson and didnt think Thielen and Patterson would do what they've done this year. I wasnt a fan of those late round OL prospects outside of probably Whitehair. I dont think picking Treadwell was a bad pick. If he turns out to be a bust, I'll eat crow. But to call him that right now is laughable