CbusVikesFan wrote:A fool can see you think YOU'RE the smartest person in the room. Reaching for certain players is more foolish than drafting players with what you see. From what "I" saw, there is no way in Hades I would have drafted either of the last two qb's that the Vikings drafted. The Vikings have mortgaged their future yet again out of desperation and even a fool can SEE that. A fool can SEE that grasping for projects instead of building from the inside out and being patient is inherently foolish. A fool can also see that on a message board that a fan from another team constantly posting on a rival's board has too much time on their hands and is mostly a troll. Did you not get kicked off of here recently?
CbusVikesFan wrote:
Hey jg,
A fool can see you think YOU'RE the smartest person in the room. Reaching for certain players is more foolish than drafting players with what you see. From what "I" saw, there is no way in Hades I would have drafted either of the last two qb's that the Vikings drafted. The Vikings have mortgaged their future yet again out of desperation and even a fool can SEE that. A fool can SEE that grasping for projects instead of building from the inside out and being patient is inherently foolish. A fool can also see that on a message board that a fan from another team constantly posting on a rival's board has too much time on their hands and is mostly a troll. Did you not get kicked off of here recently?
I dont disagree with any of that, but I do disagree that you seem to think you can gain a level of insight equal to or greater than your management and scouting by watching youtube videos. Uh, no.
Wouldnt how much time i spend posting here have more to do with how much time is on my hands then the team I root for?
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011
Jordysghost wrote:I dont disagree with any of that, but I do disagree that you seem to think you can gain a level of insight equal to or greater than your management and scouting by watching youtube videos. Uh, no.
Whether someone achieved a greater degree of insight that way or not, they might still be able to make better decisions. That's the point.
Mothman wrote:
Whether someone achieved a greater degree of insight that way or not, they might still be able to make better decisions. That's the point.
Thank you. That is totally the way it is. If the staff is more privy to information about a player, and this is the case, pffft! Hire me. I am telling you that with the same info, I could have done and can do a better job.
Don't hate on my Buckeyes. Some of the best Vikings went to Ohio State.
Including now, HOF WR #80 Cris Carter
CbusVikesFan wrote:Treadwell and Patterson. Same goes for them. I'm really tired of drafting these project players and it seems that is all Spielman likes to do on offense.
Treadwell was not considered a "project player". He played in the best conference in college football and was arguably the most polished WR in college football. The only knock on him was his 40 yard dash. So I'm not sure where that is coming from all of the sudden
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Texas Vike wrote:
Not exactly a zinger of a CV, is it? Well put, Jim.
I would agree if the failure of the passing game really did exist solely because of the QBs and the WRs. It doesn't. There is far more to it than that.
The original point I made is I wouldn't put Patterson in a group of drafted players who didn't cut it. There's more to that one as well.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Treadwell was not considered a "project player". He played in the best conference in college football and was arguably the most polished WR in college football. The only knock on him was his 40 yard dash. So I'm not sure where that is coming from all of the sudden
It may come from the fact that he;s rather obviously turned out to be a project.
Treadwell had plenty to recommend him but his dash time was far from the only knock on him. There were genuine concerns about his ability to create separation and about a loss of focus that would result in drops. His route-running was considered a work in-progress because he wasn't asked to run a full route tree at Ole Miss.
losperros wrote:
I would agree if the failure of the passing game really did exist solely because of the QBs and the WRs. It doesn't. There is far more to it than that.
The original point I made is I wouldn't put Patterson in a group of drafted players who didn't cut it. There's more to that one as well.
Without a doubt there's more to it than that. Actually that seems to be the very point that Rick failed to take into account! His philosophy of spend our major resources for talent acquisition (high draft picks) on "skill positions" and get the hogs via second class methods is clear. I think he has been "all in" on that philosophy, and it hasn't been successful.
A Packer fan WOULD assume that his teams management is far more able to make good draft decisions then their fans. A Viking fan would NEVER make that assumption. Its called 20 years of reality checks. The Pack have been excellent at drafting and developing talent. Virtually their whole team is comprised of players they drafted and kept. They have consistently kept an incredible stream of QBs coming.....We Vikes, on the other hand, have been the polar opposite. SO, you have to accept JordysGhosts point of view coming from gold/green shaded glasses AND most of our view coming out a PurpleHaze....we are both right.....sadly.
losperros wrote:I would agree if the failure of the passing game really did exist solely because of the QBs and the WRs. It doesn't. There is far more to it than that.
Sure, I agree but I suspect you'd agree that much of it leads us back to the same area: personnel and management issues.
The original point I made is I wouldn't put Patterson in a group of drafted players who didn't cut it. There's more to that one as well
Mothman wrote:
It may come from the fact that he;s rather obviously turned out to be a project.
Treadwell had plenty to recommend him but his dash time was far from the only knock on him. There were genuine concerns about his ability to create separation and about a loss of focus that would result in drops. His route-running was considered a work in-progress because he wasn't asked to run a full route tree at Ole Miss.
He drew comparisons to Hopkins and Bryant. They arent Stefon Diggs type route runners but they have the body control, ball skills and strengths to go get it. Look at what scouts said about Hopkins and Bryant. It's almost identical to Treadwell. "They need to learn how to get off press, improve routes, etc." I dont buy the whole drop thing until I see more of him at the NFL level. However, those that say they'd rather have Will Fuller, that guy had arguably the worst hands in the entire draft. A "Mike Wallace" type body catcher that had hands of stone.
Either way, many fans loved this pick. Now all of the sudden because he isnt playing much his rookie year, he's an automatic bust. I feel like too many people dont even understand what the word bust means. And it sure as hell isn't used on many guys in their first year. Especially when you dont have much to judge them by.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Texas Vike wrote:Without a doubt there's more to it than that. Actually that seems to be the very point that Rick failed to take into account! His philosophy of spend our major resources for talent acquisition (high draft picks) on "skill positions" and get the hogs via second class methods is clear. I think he has been "all in" on that philosophy, and it hasn't been successful.
Good point.
Mothman wrote:
Sure, I agree but I suspect you'd agree that much of it leads us back to the same area: personnel and management issues.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:drew comparisons to Hopkins and Bryant. They arent Stefon Diggs type route runners but they have the body control, ball skills and strengths to go get it. Look at what scouts said about Hopkins and Bryant. It's almost identical to Treadwell. "They need to learn how to get off press, improve routes, etc." I dont buy the whole drop thing until I see more of him at the NFL level. However, those that say they'd rather have Will Fuller, that guy had arguably the worst hands in the entire draft. A "Mike Wallace" type body catcher that had hands of stone.
Either way, many fans loved this pick. Now all of the sudden because he isnt playing much his rookie year, he's an automatic bust. I feel like too many people dont even understand what the word bust means. And it sure as hell isn't used on many guys in their first year. Especially when you dont have much to judge them by.
I know it bothers you when people refer to Treadwell as a bust and I agree with you that it's too early to put that label on him but referring to him as a project is quite different than referring to him as a bust and he's clearly become a project.
Mothman wrote:
I know it bothers you when people refer to Treadwell as a bust and I agree with you that it's too early to put that label on him but referring to him as a project is quite different than referring to him as a bust and he's clearly become a project.
He's only a project insomuch as he's a rookie. The same way Rhodes was/is a project, Waynes was/is a project, Barr was/is a project, Kendricks, etc, etc. Him not getting a lot of starting time doesn't say a whole lot about him being a bust or a project, I don't think. I think more than anything we're strong at a position we didn't think we'd be strong in going into the draft. Thielen specifically has been a pleasant surprise. If they had to do over again, I would imagine Treadwell wouldn't have been drafted but not because he's necessarily a "bad" player or a "project" but because in retrospect there are more needed positions.
