What do we have to do to beat Dallas

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chicagopurple
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by chicagopurple » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:55 pm

how the heck is Dallas only a 3 point favorite? One of the leagues top teams facing a team with a beat up defense and no OL? really?? A team with a solid OL that can keep our defense on the field and tire them out? Sometimes I just dont understand the oddsmakers.

I think the reason you are seeing a fall off in our D is that the offense has been such an utter failure that the D has been on the field waaay too long. Fatigue and injuries are bound to set it. This week looks likely to just highlight that even more. I wouldnt get worried about our D this year at all. I don't think management should plan on making any big investments in unneeded upgrades on the defense. Everything comes back to the failure on offense, esp the OL.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:07 pm

The Vikings can win, but they need to come out strong and focused.

A win would be a big statement, it would also mean that you would only need the Lions to lose two games, rather then 3 to take back control of your own destiny.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Demi » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:01 pm

Hope Prescott has an off day. :confused:
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by cmoss84 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:56 pm

I'm as bah humbug as they get, but we win this one. Dak is a rookie. Being in the playoff hunt, at home, going against a 10-1 team, in a new stadium (which I hear is OK), it might be loud. If Xavier can shutdown Dez and we can play bend-don't break defense against Elliot, we can do this. Hold them to FGs. We score on defense. We win 20-16.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Arkaign » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:03 am

cmoss84 wrote:I'm as bah humbug as they get, but we win this one. Dak is a rookie. Being in the playoff hunt, at home, going against a 10-1 team, in a new stadium (which I hear is OK), it might be loud. If Xavier can shutdown Dez and we can play bend-don't break defense against Elliot, we can do this. Hold them to FGs. We score on defense. We win 20-16.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you haven't watched much Cowboys football this year :)

Dez is fundamentally a decoy for the team this year. He's there, and they do move him around way more this year than previous years in various spots, but his job is to peel CBs and get safeties to shade him. He's really good at body positioning and physical catching. Earlier in the year when Dak was still a little wobbly, he pulled in a pass around the front of a defender with sheer strength and dexterity, it was really impressive. But even for all of that, Dez isn't remotely what makes this offense tick. He missed games this year, and basically zilch changed.

BBDB doesn't stop running backs. That's a term for pulling coverage back and allowing underneath cushion so that you don't give up the 'big play'. It's used when you have one, some, or all of the following :

-A big lead you want to protect, or a decent lead late in a game, typically more than 1 score (slow the progress to reduce possession opportunities)

-Bad coverage guys, due to lack of talent, injury issues, bad matchups, etc.

Basically, nothing that really applies directly to the Vikings situation, because pulling guys back from the LOS area, and playing way off of the underneath stuff for the receivers is doubly counterproductive : you NEED extra guys close to the box to have a chance to stop the Zeke+Oline attack, and the Vikings have GREAT coverage guys. They don't need to play with a big cushion, they need to stay with the receivers. XR is one of the few CBs that is absolutely capable of 1v1 on Dez and not sweating it too much. The other receivers are more than capable, but I feel that the Vikings have the talent to match up well with them as long as they have the correct assignments and accountability.

I know BBDB, because that's been a constant thing the Cowboys have had to do this year to make up for injury and talent deficiency in coverage. We had ONE CB that was playing at a Pro Bowl level (held OBJ to very low stats, tons of key pass breakups, tight man coverage, etc), but he's down until week 17 or beyond. Our next best CB has been on two bad hammies for the past 6 weeks or so. Our best tackling veteran safety has been out since Philly with a broken forearm. All of this has meant : BBDB, because we've been leaning on a 6th round rookie CB, a perennial underachiever CB (Carr), and some practice-squad-level guys that wouldn't make the roster on most teams. Rotation is nest to nonexistent. Our 2nd year CB turned safety Byron Jones literally played every defensive snap last Thursday.

Where the trouble will probably come from is this :

How many guys do you need to cram in the box to stop Zeke in between the hashes? 6? 7? Ok, how about to also keep him from squirting around the edges? 8? Ok great. That has a pretty respectable chance of slowing Zeke down considerably (he still gets yards even in terrible situations, but 3 2.5 yard carries is not a 1st down). BUT : If you have Dez, Twill (or Butler), Beasley, and Witten all flying their routes, of which they have drawn up some masterful quick outlet stuff this year, how do you assign those 3 remaining guys on 4 receiving options?

Blitzing isn't the answer either, because the results of that have been terrible this year. During the first part of the Eagles game, they were coming with their hair on fire, ears pinned back, and it temporarily stifled Dak. We all wondered : is this it? Is this the derailing? Nope. In the same game, he started to see things in a new way, and started exploiting the blitz for solid damage. He's a known workaholic that looks at film constantly, and the next team to pin its ears back and tried to blitz him heavily was the Ravens, not known as a soft defense whatsoever. He put up absolutely elite stats on the Ravens for drive after drive (I think 5 straight scoring drives, all of which were dominated by heavy blitzing that was failing to rattle him). And that was after the Ravens opened the game by stacking the box with 8.

I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion, or that anyone should feel confident in any particular result to any significant degree. The Cowboys are FAR from perfect. They have a defense largely devoid of talent who have dramatically overachieved in results, but they HAVE to be protected by the offense or that is going to be a big problem for the team. In a way, it's kind of a mirror to the Vikings, who own an overall fantastic defense, but an underpowered offense. When the defense can overachieve for you guys, it saves the offense from having to be superstars. Ditto my Cowboys.

Good luck, should be a fun game!
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Arkaign » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:06 am

mansquatch wrote: Aww, he knows just how to butter us up. Any hater of the Green and Gold is welcome here with open arms.
Hahaha, well, aside from tomorrow, go Vikes :) Anything is better than seeing GB win the division repetitively for years on end. :govikes:
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Jordysghost » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:30 am

Arkaign wrote: Hahaha, well, aside from tomorrow, go Vikes :) Anything is better than seeing GB win the division repetitively for years on end. :govikes:
Your impending wins against the Lions and to a lesser extent the Vikings will prove counter productive to that attitude.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Laserman » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:32 am

The cowboys are due a loss, Their defense is really not that good as the record indicates. Offensively, with that line they have and add 2-3 key players and boom you have a serious offense all of a sudden. A Lesson I wish the Vikings would learn ASAP, THE GAME IS WON IN THE TRENCHES, not by WR, RBs ect ect. TRENCHES TRENCHES TRENCHES. Sure hope we deliver the Loss this teams so richly deserves
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:34 am

Arkaign wrote:In a way, it's kind of a mirror to the Vikings, who own an overall fantastic defense, but an underpowered offense. When the defense can overachieve for you guys, it saves the offense from having to be superstars. Ditto my Cowboys.

Good luck, should be a fun game!
I think "underpowered offense" isn't really accurate--we have the firepower--our OL is just decimated, such that we can't really make use of our ammunition. That and our most explosive player is injured. We still have plenty of playmakers (Diggs, Thielen, and most of all Patterson) and Bradford can deliver the ball to them when he has time, so IMO it will come down to whether Dallas can put pressure on him. Given the state of our OL, that typically hasn't been difficult for most teams. I can only hope that the Cowboys' D is so bad that even our OL can handle them. If so, look out, this could be a decent game.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by chicagopurple » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:28 am

WTF??? An "underpowered offense"? Really??

The Cowboys have one of the elite Offensive lines in the NFL
The Cowbays have a QB who is young, healthy, very smart, and willing to make big plays at critical times

Have you watched any Cowboy games this year? I do simply because I like watching a quality offense and the Vikings have given me ZERO this year.....
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:46 am

chicagopurple wrote:WTF??? An "underpowered offense"? Really??

The Cowboys have one of the elite Offensive lines in the NFL
The Cowbays have a QB who is young, healthy, very smart, and willing to make big plays at critical times

Have you watched any Cowboy games this year? I do simply because I like watching a quality offense and the Vikings have given me ZERO this year.....

Not sure to whom you directed these thoughts, but no one referred to Dallas' O as "underpowered". It seems you misread.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by chicagopurple » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:30 pm

No, it was the claim that we arent "underpowered" but rather potent per the previous post. That is ludicrous. We have 2 back-up RBs posing as starters, no OL, and a choice of 2 middling QBs who have no downfield game in them......by comparision, Dallas has a viable offense....I guess I expressed my response poorly while I was busy being astounded that ANYONE would claim that our Offense is anything but "underpowered". Our OL isnt just injured...the injured guys are of poor quality to start with.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:52 pm

chicagopurple wrote:No, it was the claim that we arent "underpowered" but rather potent per the previous post. That is ludicrous. We have 2 back-up RBs posing as starters, no OL, and a choice of 2 middling QBs who have no downfield game in them......by comparision, Dallas has a viable offense....I guess I expressed my response poorly while I was busy being astounded that ANYONE would claim that our Offense is anything but "underpowered". Our OL isnt just injured...the injured guys are of poor quality to start with.

You still haven't read my post, to which you seem enraged... but, whatever.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by S197 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:51 pm

S197 wrote:I'll take a shot.

* Avoid costly penalties that kill drives, especially calls on the O-line. Hands to the face, chop blocks, false starts, can't have these.

* Rhodes needs to play like he did at the beginning of the season where he took the #1 threat out of the game. He needs to get into Dez's head and shut him down.

* Establish a running game. I realize the O-line is terrible but you aren't going to win without being able to keep the defense a little honest.

* Win the turnover battle and field position.

* Someone else on offense needs to step up if Diggs can't go. Rudolph and Thielen can't carry this team, this would be a really nice time for Treadwell to make an impact.

* Pray for no more injuries.
Like I said, o-line penalties and turnovers killed their chances. Rhodes played great and Diggs was a late decision to go. Treadwell still not showing up is concerning but really they had a good shot at this one just undisciplined at key times.
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Re: What do we have to do to beat Dallas

Post by Raptorman » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:00 am

chicagopurple wrote:how the heck is Dallas only a 3 point favorite? One of the leagues top teams facing a team with a beat up defense and no OL? really?? A team with a solid OL that can keep our defense on the field and tire them out? Sometimes I just dont understand the oddsmakers.

I think the reason you are seeing a fall off in our D is that the offense has been such an utter failure that the D has been on the field waaay too long. Fatigue and injuries are bound to set it. This week looks likely to just highlight that even more. I wouldnt get worried about our D this year at all. I don't think management should plan on making any big investments in unneeded upgrades on the defense. Everything comes back to the failure on offense, esp the OL.
Well, they didn't cover the the 3 points now, did they?
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