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 Lack of big plays. 
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Here's a link to a new Star Tribune article that's relevant to this topic:

Vikings coming up short in search for long gains

Quote:
A busted coverage created the Vikings’ biggest offensive gain in nearly 500 plays.

Jerick McKinnon had half of the Ford Field turf to himself when he took a short catch for 41 yards during Thursday’s loss in Detroit. The play came easily for McKinnon, a sharp contrast to the offense’s season-long struggle to pick up big chunks of yardage. That has left quarterback Sam Bradford pondering how the Vikings can remedy that.

“We’ve got to find a way to create more explosive plays,” Bradford said. “However we do it, we’ve just got to figure out a way to make sure that it happens.”

The Vikings gained only 8 yards on the ensuing three snaps in Detroit and kicked a short field goal, a more appropriate encapsulation of their current plodding play. Their four plays of 40-plus yards this season are fewer than any other team but Houston (three).

Bigger plays certainly would help cover up other issues for an offense averaging just 19.8 points per game.


Andrew Krammer, the author of the article, is being generous with that last line. The Vikings are averaging 19.8 points per game. The Vikings offense is averaging just 16 points per game. The Vikes defense and special teams have combined to score 6 TDs this season.


Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:21 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Mothman wrote:
Andrew Krammer, the author of the article, is being generous with that last line. The Vikings are averaging 19.8 points per game. The Vikings offense is averaging just 16 points per game. The Vikes defense and special teams have combined to score 6 TDs this season.


Thanks for the link, Jim. I think it's a good article.

No doubt the offense has become the weakest unit on the team. It's ridiculous. Maybe they can't be a good unit this year but I find it hard to believe the Vikings can't at least field an average NFL offense.

Quote:
“We’ve got to find a way to create more explosive plays,” Bradford said. “However we do it, we’ve just got to figure out a way to make sure that it happens.”


Whether Bradford intended it this way or not, this is a challenge to the coaching staff. Time to find a way for the offense to put up big plays leading to more points on the board. That's part of coaching.


Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:07 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Mothman wrote:
Here's a link to a new Star Tribune article that's relevant to this topic:

Vikings coming up short in search for long gains

Quote:
A busted coverage created the Vikings’ biggest offensive gain in nearly 500 plays.

Jerick McKinnon had half of the Ford Field turf to himself when he took a short catch for 41 yards during Thursday’s loss in Detroit. The play came easily for McKinnon, a sharp contrast to the offense’s season-long struggle to pick up big chunks of yardage. That has left quarterback Sam Bradford pondering how the Vikings can remedy that.

“We’ve got to find a way to create more explosive plays,” Bradford said. “However we do it, we’ve just got to figure out a way to make sure that it happens.”

The Vikings gained only 8 yards on the ensuing three snaps in Detroit and kicked a short field goal, a more appropriate encapsulation of their current plodding play. Their four plays of 40-plus yards this season are fewer than any other team but Houston (three).

Bigger plays certainly would help cover up other issues for an offense averaging just 19.8 points per game.


Andrew Krammer, the author of the article, is being generous with that last line. The Vikings are averaging 19.8 points per game. The Vikings offense is averaging just 16 points per game. The Vikes defense and special teams have combined to score 6 TDs this season.



Smh..horrible.


Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:14 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
This article is just a regurgitation of what we already know. The OL is starting guys who are backups and in some cases backups to the backups. They cannot reliably pass protect consistently for more than 2 to 2.5 seconds on any given passing down. Without a mobile QB that means the Vikings are limited to a more west coast style quick passing attack. Sadly the same level of awful in the pass protection is also rampant in the rushing attack, we cannot get any push up front and the rare times that we do, the backup RBs are unreliable in exploiting it.

Detroit's Defense is not great. Their front 4 is essentially Ziggy Ansah and 3 other guys. Despite that favorable matchup, our coaching staff still chose to play it ultra conservative. That says a lot about how much they think they can rely on their protection up front. The article is right, big plays are needed, but where are they going to come from? We are starting our worse OL in Clemmings + his backup at OT.

They probably need another 0.5 to 1 seconds of at least moderately reliable protection for a play to develop to start throwing deep. Where is that going to come from? Is Clemmings going to suddenly find some all pro in himself after 2 seasons of "terrible"? Is Sam Bradford going to somehow discover he has Michael Vick's legs? Are they suddenly going to average 5 YPC in the running game to better sell the Play-action Pass? It isn't happening. 5 Offensive players on IR, it is more than any team can overcome. Last season TB was able to overcome some of this with his feet and that line was arguably better than what we are seeing today. (Matt Kalil, how we've missed you...)

The Sam Bradford trade will go down as a disaster, but it won't be because Sam Bradford played poorly or wasn't up the the task. It will be because both OT and the starting RB went on IR in week 2.

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Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
The o-line issue has been the one constant for quite some time. It's effected the health, development and productivity of every QB here since the Culpepper days.

Even in 09 Favre took a complete beating that would have likely knocked out less crazy guys....but he ultimately submitted in Chicago to that fate.

Bridgewater's mobility really helped the offense. It's a shame Sam is so statue like at this stage of his career. I don't know how much of that is coached into him at this point or just his learned behavior, but he does not move well at all.

Between he and Teddy we have the makings of a star.....maybe they can meld them in the off season? I, for one, would welcome the Tammy Bradwater era. :beerock:


Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
There's every indication that the coaching staff is excessively conservative when it comes to offense and that's not helping matters.

If the attitude is basically that they can do nothing other than pass short the Vikes might as well forfeit the rest of their games now. I don't buy that they can't throw downfield once in a while, even with a bad o-line. Max protect, run a double move and take a shot. Run a flea clicker. Get creative. Try something. A steady diet of short, quick passes is going to yield diminishing returns and, quite likely, more turnovers as defenders start jumping routes and playing more aggressively because the Vikings aren't giving them enough reason to play otherwise. An excessively conservative strategy is a losing strategy without nearly perfect execution and there's no more reason to believe the offense can do that than there is to believe they can pass protect for 3.5 seconds.


Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Mothman wrote:
There's every indication that the coaching staff is excessively conservative when it comes to offense and that's not helping matters.

If the attitude is basically that they can do nothing other than pass short the Vikes might as well forfeit the rest of their games now. I don't buy that they can't throw downfield once in a while, even with a bad o-line. Max protect, run a double move and take a shot. Run a flea clicker. Get creative. Try something. A steady diet of short, quick passes is going to yield diminishing returns and, quite likely, more turnovers as defenders start jumping routes and playing more aggressively because the Vikings aren't giving them enough reason to play otherwise. An excessively conservative strategy is a losing strategy without nearly perfect execution and there's no more reason to believe the offense can do that than there is to believe they can pass protect for 3.5 seconds.



It's beyond excessive IMO. I think you may have alluded to it elsewhere, but I'm starting to believe Norv was not the conservative one here. He was perhaps, stubborn and inflexible in some ways, in not bending the scheme to match the talent on hand, but I have never seen anything quite like the last Lions game in terms of conservative offense.


Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Nunin wrote:
It's beyond excessive IMO. I think you may have alluded to it elsewhere, but I'm starting to believe Norv was not the conservative one here. He was perhaps, stubborn and inflexible in some ways, in not bending the scheme to match the talent on hand, but I have never seen anything quite like the last Lions game in terms of conservative offense.


It was ridiculous.

You're remembering correctly. I alluded to the split between Norv and Zimmer over the weekend.

Incidentally, the L.A. Times ran a story about Norv the other day:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp ... story.html


Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:31 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Mothman wrote:
It was ridiculous.

You're remembering correctly. I alluded to the split between Norv and Zimmer over the weekend.

Incidentally, the L.A. Times ran a story about Norv the other day:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp ... story.html



Hmmmmm...thanks for that, Jim. That's a bit troubling IMO


Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Nunin wrote:
Hmmmmm...thanks for that, Jim. That's a bit troubling IMO


I agree. :(


Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Nunin wrote:
Mothman wrote:
There's every indication that the coaching staff is excessively conservative when it comes to offense and that's not helping matters.

If the attitude is basically that they can do nothing other than pass short the Vikes might as well forfeit the rest of their games now. I don't buy that they can't throw downfield once in a while, even with a bad o-line. Max protect, run a double move and take a shot. Run a flea clicker. Get creative. Try something. A steady diet of short, quick passes is going to yield diminishing returns and, quite likely, more turnovers as defenders start jumping routes and playing more aggressively because the Vikings aren't giving them enough reason to play otherwise. An excessively conservative strategy is a losing strategy without nearly perfect execution and there's no more reason to believe the offense can do that than there is to believe they can pass protect for 3.5 seconds.


It's beyond excessive IMO. I think you may have alluded to it elsewhere, but I'm starting to believe Norv was not the conservative one here. He was perhaps, stubborn and inflexible in some ways, in not bending the scheme to match the talent on hand, but I have never seen anything quite like the last Lions game in terms of conservative offense.


Norv's stubborn and inflexible ways hurt the offense, regardless whether he was the conservative one or not. I'm glad he's gone.

OTOH, we now know Norv wasn't the sole reason the offense couldn't produce. And now we see them so conservative they can't move the ball anywhere on the field. So who the heck is the guy holding the offense back? It's not Bradford. He's gone public in saying he wants to see more big plays. So that leaves Shurmur or Zimmer. Or maybe both. If that's the case, can we truly expect much change this season?

Not a good sign, if you ask me.


Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
@losperros
i hear ya...all the way around.
Norv was right in saying it wasn't going to work here for him.
It appears this offense has no rudder at the moment.
I suppose it would be much different if they could manage a running game.
In the mean time it could get ugly(er)~


Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:43 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Doesn't help that we have a gunshy qb. Probably with good reason but he was throwing way faster than he had to vs detroit


Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:07 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Bring back Norv!!!

Everybody wanted to get rid of the 5 and 7 step drop and dink and dunk, until we stop running 5 and 7 step drops and start dinking and dunking. The result? Predictable. I will say, the result would have been predictable with Norv and Sam too. It would never work given the OL limitations and Sam's liabilities. That's why we should have benched Sam and played Hill and or Heineke in Norv's system. It was the only chance this team had given the circumstances, and now its gone.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:47 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Are you guys seriously reminiscing about Norv? 5 weeks ago the majority of this board couldn't wait for him to be canned. Now we miss him?

I stand by what I said earlier on this offense. Until they can even semi-reliably pass protect for more than 2 seconds, they are not going to take deep shots. Did you guys read the quote from Glover Quin in the original article that started this thread? They took ZERO shots downfield. ZERO. That means they (the coaches) have no confidence in their pass protection. It also implies that they have no confidence in Shaun Hill since they are unwilling to risk Sam Bradford in the face of the protection issue.

I think the offense as a whole has been conservative, that is obvious. However, I'm not convinced that all of it is due to the conservatism of the coaches. Given the above, I think a portion of it is due to the lack of reliable protection. With Teddy back there we saw more stuff because he could buy time with his feet. This year we do not have a mobile QB and our protection situation is even worse off. That is a driver for the play calling as well. So how much is the coaches being risk adverse and how much of it is "our guys can only execute so much"?

I agree on Zimmer needing to grow into a HC and get out of his coordinator mold, that is insightful stuff. The coaches know there are issues. Zimmer has made comments recently about examining in the off season why so many of their players are getting hurt on the field. Also, it should be readily obvious to everyone at Winter Park that hte offense is holding the team back. How do they fix it?

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Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:40 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
yes Zim needs to adapt, yes Bradford is not a guy who will wing it deep without a nice comy cushion to sit in the pocket and observe the play evolve well, yes it would be nice to have a RB that needs absolutely NO run blocking from his line ( even AP cant do that anymore). But these things are pipe dreams. None of it will happen until we have at least a mediocre Ol.

We started the year with an OL that would be back-ups on any quality NFL team. When they all went down we were left with a team that has an OL staffed by guys who were unemployed players taken off the streets. It will NEVER work. It will make every other component of the team far worse. It will never change until the GM/Scouts/Owner raise the damn bar and demand excellence at this critical position. Its been an obvious problem for years that has festered to the point of collapse. Sadly, SPielman put us in this position and now when it is unignorable (sp?), it is in a year where a bunch of teams are in similar situations so OL will be at a premium for the next few seasons. Its going to be a mess trying to fix this .


Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:49 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
mansquatch wrote:
Are you guys seriously reminiscing about Norv? 5 weeks ago the majority of this board couldn't wait for him to be canned. Now we miss him?


I don't miss Norv at all. As I said, I'm glad he's gone. Turner hurt the team with his bull-headed precious system, which wasn't right for the personnel.

mansquatch wrote:
I stand by what I said earlier on this offense. Until they can even semi-reliably pass protect for more than 2 seconds, they are not g8oing to take deep shots. Did you guys read the quote from Glover Quin in the original article that started this thread? They took ZERO shots downfield. ZERO. That means they (the coaches) have no confidence in their pass protection. It also implies that they have no confidence in Shaun Hill since they are unwilling to risk Sam Bradford in the face of the protection issue.


The inadequate offensive line has negatively affected every skill player on the field. That's how it is in the NFL. A team must win the battle in the trenches. The Vikings OL loses that battle in every game.

Despite some weird claims to the opposite, there is nothing Shaun Hill can do better than Sam Bradford. I can see many reasons why Hill is sitting and wasn't thrust into the starting role after Teddy got hurt.

mansquatch wrote:
I think the offense as a whole has been conservative, that is obvious. However, I'm not convinced that all of it is due to the conservatism of the coaches. Given the above, I think a portion of it is due to the lack of reliable protection. With Teddy back there we saw more stuff because he could buy time with his feet. This year we do not have a mobile QB and our protection situation is even worse off. That is a driver for the play calling as well. So how much is the coaches being risk adverse and how much of it is "our guys can only execute so much"?

I agree on Zimmer needing to grow into a HC and get out of his coordinator mold, that is insightful stuff. The coaches know there are issues. Zimmer has made comments recently about examining in the off season why so many of their players are getting hurt on the field. Also, it should be readily obvious to everyone at Winter Park that hte offense is holding the team back. How do they fix it?


I agree with much of what you said. However, while the OL is worse than pathetic, Bradford has the arm and the team has the WRs to at least attempt some downfield shots. If the coaching staff is too paranoid to call those plays, that's bad news for the entire team. It should never be that way. If you want the best fruit, then sometimes you have to go out on a limb to get it.

Bridgewater had more mobility but he also hung onto the ball too long. And this season's porous OL would be no blessing for him either.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:07 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Mothman wrote:
There's every indication that the coaching staff is excessively conservative when it comes to offense and that's not helping matters.

If the attitude is basically that they can do nothing other than pass short the Vikes might as well forfeit the rest of their games now. I don't buy that they can't throw downfield once in a while, even with a bad o-line. Max protect, run a double move and take a shot. Run a flea clicker. Get creative. Try something. A steady diet of short, quick passes is going to yield diminishing returns and, quite likely, more turnovers as defenders start jumping routes and playing more aggressively because the Vikings aren't giving them enough reason to play otherwise. An excessively conservative strategy is a losing strategy without nearly perfect execution and there's no more reason to believe the offense can do that than there is to believe they can pass protect for 3.5 seconds.


Gotta love them flea clickers lol


Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:09 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
mansquatch wrote:
Are you guys seriously reminiscing about Norv? 5 weeks ago the majority of this board couldn't wait for him to be canned. Now we miss him?

I stand by what I said earlier on this offense. Until they can even semi-reliably pass protect for more than 2 seconds, they are not going to take deep shots. Did you guys read the quote from Glover Quin in the original article that started this thread? They took ZERO shots downfield. ZERO. That means they (the coaches) have no confidence in their pass protection. It also implies that they have no confidence in Shaun Hill since they are unwilling to risk Sam Bradford in the face of the protection issue.


Clearly. After all, if they had confidence in Hill, Bradford wouldn't be in MN in the first place. ;)

I don't miss Norv. I just miss good offense. Shurmur's always been a dink and dunk coach and that's not an approach I like. An ultra-conservative, practically horizontal passing game isn't going to win many games for the Vikings. It's more likely to lead to additional losses.

The pass protection has been awful all year but it didn't suddenly become impossible to go deep after Turner left. They can take shots down the field if they want to take them and let's remember, they have a choice beyond throwing 1-5 yard passes and 40 yard bombs. They can go downfield more often without going WAY downfield. This offense needs more intermediate completions.

Quote:
I think the offense as a whole has been conservative, that is obvious. However, I'm not convinced that all of it is due to the conservatism of the coaches. Given the above, I think a portion of it is due to the lack of reliable protection.


Of course it is but they can't afford to just crawl into a shell. What we're seeing are conservative coaches reacting to protection problems with a very conservative response. It would be foolish to recklessly ignore those protection issues but it's also foolish to give defenses a huge advantage by only forcing them to defend the first 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That's no way to play successful NFL football.

Quote:
With Teddy back there we saw more stuff because he could buy time with his feet. This year we do not have a mobile QB and our protection situation is even worse off. That is a driver for the play calling as well. So how much is the coaches being risk adverse and how much of it is "our guys can only execute so much"?


It's a mix of both but they were pretty risk-averse with Bridgewater too. Some of that may have been Bridgewater himself but after 3 years, its crystal clear that Zimmer has a very conservative offensive philosophy.

Quote:
I agree on Zimmer needing to grow into a HC and get out of his coordinator mold, that is insightful stuff. The coaches know there are issues. Zimmer has made comments recently about examining in the off season why so many of their players are getting hurt on the field.


I saw that yesterday and I was somewhat amused by it. Is it really such a mystery to the Vikings that a number of injury-prone players have all suffered injuries?


Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:18 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
autobon7 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
There's every indication that the coaching staff is excessively conservative when it comes to offense and that's not helping matters.

If the attitude is basically that they can do nothing other than pass short the Vikes might as well forfeit the rest of their games now. I don't buy that they can't throw downfield once in a while, even with a bad o-line. Max protect, run a double move and take a shot. Run a flea clicker. Get creative. Try something. A steady diet of short, quick passes is going to yield diminishing returns and, quite likely, more turnovers as defenders start jumping routes and playing more aggressively because the Vikings aren't giving them enough reason to play otherwise. An excessively conservative strategy is a losing strategy without nearly perfect execution and there's no more reason to believe the offense can do that than there is to believe they can pass protect for 3.5 seconds.


Gotta love them flea clickers lol


:rofl:

That's what fleas use to change TV channels.

Curse Apple's auto-correct software. I really should disable it. When combined with my poor typing skills, it's a deadly mix!

On the bright side, I may have just invented a new play.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:21 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
losperros wrote:
I agree with much of what you said. However, while the OL is worse than pathetic, Bradford has the arm and the team has the WRs to at least attempt some downfield shots. If the coaching staff is too paranoid to call those plays, that's bad news for the entire team. It should never be that way. If you want the best fruit, then sometimes you have to go out on a limb to get it.


Well said!


Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:23 am
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
It really baffles me. Either some peeps here just fail at comprehending simple conversation or are being deliberately obtuse.
Suggesting that Norv may not have been the source of conservatism on offense in no way suggests anybody wants him back in hindsight.
His offense mostly sucked too. In fact the offense got better, yardage-wise, after he walked....until the last couple games.
-
The point of the comments regarding Norv, was that maybe...just maybe, Zimmer is the bigger problem when it comes to the conservative offense. And maybe that had to do with why Norv left. Which means the problem still looms and will continue. right?


Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Guys you are missing my point a bit. They have no confidence in taking the deep shots, whether it be 10 yard or 40 yards. I postulate that the reason for this lack of confidence is because the protection up front is so bad that the risk reward on such plays for this team is way towards the negative. The decision making certainly supports this view.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone in saying that it would be nice for them to take shots. It would be. I'm just of the view that it isn't crappy coaching or conservative play calling so much as it is we are playing the backup to the backup at RT and our back up (and worst OL) at LT and it REALLY shows. We have no running game. We are 3/4 of the way through the season and the tape on the Vikings doesn't lie. Every team knows our Tackles can't match up and as such our offensive is in a box with no hope of getting out. (Is TJ Clemmings really going to suddenly play like Tyrone Smith?) So yeah, we could take more shots, but at what cost? Why does everyone think more 5 step drops would increase our production? It could make things worse also.

This season is pretty much done for me as I've decided the injuries at Tackle, RB, and QB are too much for the roster to overcome. We are watching literally 55% of our original starting offense limp it's way though a lost season. It sucks, because we got a taste of what the rest of this roster is capable of. The injuries have sucked the confidence out of this club in 2016 and it shows up every time they take the field.

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Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
if clemmings and beavers are incapable of pass protection then they need to be cut ASAP....whenever that is.
they are not ever going to improve at pass protection if they never get a legit chance at it during games. it makes little developmental sense to me.
-
if they can't do the job at all? move boon over, play easton at center, berger at guard and hill at RT. do something! make a change other than turtling up. sheesh!
-
an incomplete attempt 20yds downfield is in no way less of a failure than a completion 4yards short of the sticks on 3rd down IMO. especially when all 11 defenders pretty much know that is how you're gonna roll.
Bradford may need to take some hits in order for his team to win. that's football...he seems to accept it.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:35 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
mansquatch wrote:
Guys you are missing my point a bit. They have no confidence in taking the deep shots, whether it be 10 yard or 40 yards. I postulate that the reason for this lack of confidence is because the protection up front is so bad that the risk reward on such plays for this team is way towards the negative. The decision making certainly supports this view.


I acknowledged that above. It's not that I'm missing your point. I agree that they lack confidence due to the bad protection. I'm simply being critical of the approach the team is taking.

Quote:
I'm not disagreeing with anyone in saying that it would be nice for them to take shots. It would be. I'm just of the view that it isn't crappy coaching or conservative play calling so much as it is we are playing the backup to the backup at RT and our back up (and worst OL) at LT and it REALLY shows. We have no running game. We are 3/4 of the way through the season and the tape on the Vikings doesn't lie. Every team knows our Tackles can't match up and as such our offensive is in a box with no hope of getting out. (Is TJ Clemmings really going to suddenly play like Tyrone Smith?) So yeah, we could take more shots, but at what cost? Why does everyone think more 5 step drops would increase our production? It could make things worse also.


Here's where we disagree: I think the coaches are overreacting to the poor line play. Why would going downfield a little more increase production? Because it would force the defense to defend more of the field and a strategy that doesn't do that is going to have diminishing returns. An offense can't be as conservative as the Vikings were against the Lions without consequences. The INT that set up the Lions win last week was one of those consequences. Nobody expects Clemmings to suddenly become a good player but I've seen enough of him to know he doesn't miss every block. His man doesn't get past him every time. They can get the ball downfield. It's just a matter of choosing to do it.


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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Nunin wrote:
if clemmings and beavers are incapable of pass protection then they need to be cut ASAP....whenever that is.
they are not ever going to improve at pass protection if they never get a legit chance at it during games. it makes little developmental sense to me.
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if they can't do the job at all? move boon over, play easton at center, berger at guard and hill at RT. do something! make a change other than turtling up. sheesh!


Exactly!

Quote:
an incomplete attempt 20yds downfield is in no way less of a failure than a completion 4yards short of the sticks on 3rd down IMO. especially when all 11 defenders pretty much know that is how you're gonna roll.
Bradford may need to take some hits in order for his team to win. that's football...he seems to accept it.


... and he clearly wants the opportunity to make some more explosive plays.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
Nunin wrote:
An incomplete attempt 20yds downfield is in no way less of a failure than a completion 4yards short of the sticks on 3rd down IMO. especially when all 11 defenders pretty much know that is how you're gonna roll.
Bradford may need to take some hits in order for his team to win. that's football...he seems to accept it.


I'm thinking the same way. The Vikings aren't going to be worse for the wear by taking a few shots downfield, even if all it does is keep the opposing defense more honest. And it may even result in a big play. Seriously, Diggs or Patterson can't catch a medium deep pass and take it 25 more yards for a TD? Sure they can.

Bradford is calling for more big plays. He's the quarterback, for crying out loud. The coaches should work out a way for him to take the shots. I know it's become fashionable for some to dump on Bradford but the truth is he throws an accurate medium to deep ball, and I'm certain Diggs, Thielen and Patterson can catch the passes. It won't always work but the dink and dunk nonsense isn't lighting up the scoreboard either.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
i'm seeing a philosopshical difference between spielman and zimmer.
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rick has rolled the dice often IMO...to various degrees. the trade for bradford was a big move in terms of being all in. i'm not seeing the same urgency, on game to game basis, from the coaching staff. which may have been the main reason norv walked.
does there need to be a sense of urgency for this season? i don't think it's clear one way or the other. maybe all the injuries have dampened the fire.
but this offense does not reflect the talent it has. the injuries are one thing and a huge factor. what is being done to adjust is another.
i see spielman making every attempt he can to come up with a fix....i am not seeing that from this coaching staff
YMMV
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edit:@losperros
it's looking eerily like the favre childress thing right now. only favre just did what he needed to do and kept it in house as far as commenting.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
i gotta pile on here with one more thought:
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there was a huge issue last season in this teams ability to score TDs. it seemed there was no real urgency to change anything up because in spite of the failure the team was managing to win. ultimately it bit them on the butt in the playoffs.
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a similar thing is happening now where they are faced with making some significant changes vs losing the season, when the writing was on the wall weeks ago in spite of their winning record.
now they are forced to make changes with little to no room for error. luckily things couldn't be any worse on offense, so any attempt at change that fails will hardy alter any outcome.
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this is shortsided and ineffective coaching IMO.
CP should have been involved on offense weeks ago. trying different guys on the line in different spots rather than dumming down the offense also. i'm not saying this would have changed the results in their favor....but it stands to offer more positives than turtling up and pinning it all on he defense and/or kicker. (sigh)
sorry for the rant..looks like i woke up giving a crap today lol


Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Lack of big plays.
This is an OL that can't get 1 yard on 3rd AND 4th down. They can't hold long enough to support a vertical game. And they have tried, Bradford out of the wildcat was a deep play. The max protect deep(ish) pass to Ellison was another. But you can only run trickery so much.

I think the key is to establish some semblance of a running game because if the defense knows you can't run, it takes away a ton of options. I realize this is a daunting task with this O-line, which is about an injury away from being comprised of cardboard cutouts but that's really what they need to figure out how to do.


Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:40 pm
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