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 Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad 
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
losperros wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
I'd add Waynes on the good list for his coverage and run support and Rudolph on the bad list for his poor blocking.


Definitely agree about Waynes. He and Rhodes are becoming a top notch CB tandem.

It's nice to finally see the Vikings defense with a quality secondary. I just wish everyone could stay healthy.


Agreed. So many fans, as usual just like Treadwell, were so impatient with Waynes just because Peters was performing and playing and Waynes wasnt. Now we go a full year listening to Treadwell being a bust because Fuller is performing and playing and Treadwell isn't. Fans have to learn that its just how Zimmer operates. Why rush them when there is no need to. With the way Diggs, CP and Thielen are playing, whats the rush??? Just because he was a first round pick we have to play him? No. It's not that Newman has necessarily regressed since last year. Its just that Waynes has gotten a lot better. Thats what I think will happen next year with Treadwell

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Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:46 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
808vikingsfan wrote:
When is Floyd coming back?


Probably never, if he doesn't make it back this season. He won't be a Viking next year either way.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:48 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
fiestavike wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
When is Floyd coming back?


Probably never, if he doesn't make it back this season. He won't be a Viking next year either way.



That seems increasingly likely. :(

Since 2007, the Vikings have drafted the following 12 players in the first round:

Adrian Peterson
Percy Harvin
Christian Ponder
Matt Kalil
Harrison Smith
Shariff Floyd
Xavier Rhodes
Cordarrelle Patterson
Anthony Barr
Teddy Bridgewater
Trae Waynes
LaQuon Treadwell

How many of them have played or will play for the team beyond their rookie contract (including, in cases where it applies, the 5th year option)?

Smith made it. Harvin and Ponder didn't make it. Rhodes looks like a good bet to make it, as does Barr.

Kalil and Floyd are both looking like good candidates to not last beyond their first deal with the team either.

Bridgewater's situation is more complex due to his injury but there's a decent chance he won't play for the Vikes beyond his rookie contract either.

Patterson may or may not, depending on if they can re-sign him after this season. He certainly should be with the team beyond his rookie deal.

It's too soon to tell with Waynes and Treadwell.

We could easily be looking at 5 or 6 of those 12 players not being with the team beyond their rookie contract. Ouch.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:20 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
When is Floyd coming back?


Probably never, if he doesn't make it back this season. He won't be a Viking next year either way.



That seems increasingly likely. :(

Since 2007, the Vikings have drafted the following 12 players in the first round:

Adrian Peterson
Percy Harvin
Christian Ponder
Matt Kalil
Harrison Smith
Shariff Floyd
Xavier Rhodes
Cordarrelle Patterson
Anthony Barr
Teddy Bridgewater
Trae Waynes
LaQuon Treadwell

How many of them have played or will play for the team beyond their rookie contract (including, in cases where it applies, the 5th year option)?

Smith made it. Harvin and Ponder didn't make it. Rhodes looks like a good bet to make it, as does Barr.

Kalil and Floyd are both looking like good candidates to not last beyond their first deal with the team either.

Bridgewater's situation is more complex due to his injury but there's a decent chance he won't play for the Vikes beyond his rookie contract either.

Patterson may or may not, depending on if they can re-sign him after this season. He certainly should be with the team beyond his rookie deal.

It's too soon to tell with Waynes and Treadwell.

We could easily be looking at 5 or 6 of those 12 players not being with the team beyond their rookie contract. Ouch.


Floyd had his 5th year option excersized already so there should be no reason he wouldn't be back next year. Kalil needs to be re-signed regardless because of our current tackle situation. That's a must IMO. I would have to believe they keep Patterson. He's too valuable to this team in so many ways. The only true bust out of the group is probably Ponder. Others have been hampered by injury. A lot of it is just bad luck. Not necessarily bad drafting. Injuries are why there are question marks next to a lot of those guys. That's just part of the game unfortunately. You could draft the "least-injury prone" guy out there but a freak injury could hit him like it hit Teddy. I'm going to guess you can look at a lot of teams in the NFL and the trend is very similar

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Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:32 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
i think they need to keep kalil too. at a lower price

i'm wondering what percentage of o-line picks are still playing for the teams that drafted them?

the vikes seem to have very few...even with the injuries.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:38 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Nunin wrote:
i think they need to keep kalil too. at a lower price

i'm wondering what percentage of o-line picks are still playing for the teams that drafted them?

the vikes seem to have very few...even with the injuries.



I think our drafting has been pretty strong over the past five years, but if there's one position they've absolutely failed to scout well it's certainly OL. Studwell needs to improve at this!


Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Floyd had his 5th year option excersized already so there should be no reason he wouldn't be back next year.


He might be back but considering how much time he's missed during his short career, and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that missed time this year, it seems possible the Vikings will decide his $6,757,000 salary in 2017 is too high. I'm not sure which direction the team will go...


Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Just to be clear, my point in posting the list above was that a team obviously wants to hit on first round picks and find core players who will become quality starters and last beyond their rookie contracts. If the Vikings only end up with, say, 7 of 12 first round picks remaining with the team beyond that first deal, that strikes me as pretty detrimental to team-building.

We'll see how it works out.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Just to be clear, my point in posting the list above was that a team obviously wants to hit on first round picks and find core players who will become quality starters and last beyond their rookie contracts. If the Vikings only end up with, say, 7 of 12 first round picks remaining with the team beyond that first deal, that strikes me as pretty detrimental to team-building.

We'll see how it works out.


How does it compare to the rest of the league? I think that needs to be answered first before getting too critical. Also, I think it's a matter of quality over quantity. Peterson speaks for himself. I think we can probably say Smith does too. Then you have high quality guys like Rhodes and Barr. Even guys who didn't necessarily pan out were strong contributors. Percy Harvin won rookie of the year.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
S197 wrote:
How does it compare to the rest of the league? I think that needs to be answered first before getting too critical.


I don't know how it compares to the rest of the league and I wasn't trying to be particularly critical in the first place, at least not beyond pointing out that building a champion gets even harder if 40-50% of the last 12 first round picks don't stick around past their first contract with the team (for any reason).

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Also, I think it's a matter of quality over quantity. Peterson speaks for himself. I think we can probably say Smith does too. Then you have high quality guys like Rhodes and Barr. Even guys who didn't necessarily pan out were strong contributors. Percy Harvin won rookie of the year.


Yet he was still gone by the end of his first contract. The point isn't whether these guys were good for a year or two, it's how much they help the team in the long term. In the first round, a team should be looking for and finding core players, the nucleus of the team.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:54 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Floyd had his 5th year option excersized already so there should be no reason he wouldn't be back next year.


He might be back but considering how much time he's missed during his short career, and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that missed time this year, it seems possible the Vikings will decide his $6,757,000 salary in 2017 is too high. I'm not sure which direction the team will go...


But doesnt that result in dead money?? It's part of his rookie contract still so they would have to eat a decent chunk of money if they let him go I'm guessing

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Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:58 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Texas Vike wrote:
Nunin wrote:
i think they need to keep kalil too. at a lower price

i'm wondering what percentage of o-line picks are still playing for the teams that drafted them?

the vikes seem to have very few...even with the injuries.



I think our drafting has been pretty strong over the past five years, but if there's one position they've absolutely failed to scout well it's certainly OL. Studwell needs to improve at this!


I agree when it comes to previous years but last year we didnt have much choice unless we traded way up into the first round. Look at who was drafted for OTs after Treadwell. One by GB in the second. Next one didnt go until the 3rd I believe

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Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
S197 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Just to be clear, my point in posting the list above was that a team obviously wants to hit on first round picks and find core players who will become quality starters and last beyond their rookie contracts. If the Vikings only end up with, say, 7 of 12 first round picks remaining with the team beyond that first deal, that strikes me as pretty detrimental to team-building.

We'll see how it works out.


How does it compare to the rest of the league? I think that needs to be answered first before getting too critical. Also, I think it's a matter of quality over quantity. Peterson speaks for himself. I think we can probably say Smith does too. Then you have high quality guys like Rhodes and Barr. Even guys who didn't necessarily pan out were strong contributors. Percy Harvin won rookie of the year.


And Kalil was a pro bowler. My guess is, if you look at the rest of the league, I don't see it being much different.

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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Floyd had his 5th year option excersized already so there should be no reason he wouldn't be back next year.


He might be back but considering how much time he's missed during his short career, and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that missed time this year, it seems possible the Vikings will decide his $6,757,000 salary in 2017 is too high. I'm not sure which direction the team will go...


But doesnt that result in dead money?? It's part of his rookie contract still so they would have to eat a decent chunk of money if they let him go I'm guessing



They could cut him without it resulting in any dead cap money. The 5th year options don't become fully guaranteed until the third day of the 2017 league year.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:21 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
I give up. My point's already been completely lost.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:40 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
I give up. My point's already been completely lost.

lol
i understood your point.
-
the injury issues with kalil and floyd have a marked effect on the percentage....but in a vaccum of just looking at how 1st rounders have panned out they really haven't.
--

also, in general to the posters, i asked about how many OL draft picks are still on the team that drafted them. not just in the first rd....any round.
i wonder which teams are near the top in that category and where the vikes fall compared to average? also how many picks of the vikes have found spots with other teams? vlad ducasse(sp) in chicago, for example.
i may look that up tonight when i have absolutely nothing to do but rap online~


Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Nunin wrote:
Mothman wrote:
I give up. My point's already been completely lost.

lol
i understood your point.


:banana:

Quote:
the injury issues with kalil and floyd have a marked effect on the percentage....but in a vaccum of just looking at how 1st rounders have panned out they really haven't.


... and each time they don't, it's a real setback.

Quote:
also, in general to the posters, i asked about how many OL draft picks are still on the team that drafted them. not just in the first rd....any round.
i wonder which teams are near the top in that category and where the vikes fall compared to average? also how many picks of the vikes have found spots with other teams? vlad ducasse(sp) in chicago, for example.
i may look that up tonight when i have absolutely nothing to do but rap online~


I'll be interested in what you find.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:46 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
My sniff test is that spielmans record is bad . Also, consider the fact that Kalil is still on the team but not due to accomplishment bu rather SPielmans stubbornness. He wont admit that the guy is a bust. No one on our OL would be a starter on any contender.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
chicagopurple wrote:
My sniff test is that spielmans record is bad . Also, consider the fact that Kalil is still on the team but not due to accomplishment bu rather SPielmans stubbornness. He wont admit that the guy is a bust. No one on our OL would be a starter on any contender.


Funny you say that because I can 150% guarantee you he would start for Seattle and I would say they are a contender so you're wrong there. Boone and Berger could easily start as well. So....wrong again.

ALSO, how bad would you want Matt Kalil back right now? I sure as hell would. There isn't a GM out there that comes out and says "yeah that guy I picked is a bust" so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

ALSO, do you realize that if we cut Kalil during his rookie contract we'd get hammered with dead money??

ALSO, since his rookie season, he'a dealt with a lot of injuries and played through them all except this year. It's definitely hampered his play

ALSO, as for Spielman, he'a put together one of the best defenses in the NFL. And please don't come back with "and one of the worst offenses in the NFL" because every one and there mother can tell you that this offense was murdered by injuries this year


But keep going with your post, the accuracy was on point :confused:

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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
ALSO, as for Spielman, he'a put together one of the best defenses in the NFL. And please don't come back with "and one of the worst offenses in the NFL" because every one and there mother can tell you that this offense was murdered by injuries this year


It's been one of the worst offenses in the NFL for nearly 3 years. It's just even worse this year.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:28 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
yeah this offense under Zimmer has to be an historically bad 3 year stretch IMO.
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the talent is there in droves....i think the talent plus norv just didn't add up.
the ongoing suckitude of the o-line hasn't helped....but musgrave did more with the same at o-line IMO.
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norv turned out to be a bad hire afaic.....don't know if that is a zimmer error or fully on spielman


Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
ALSO, as for Spielman, he'a put together one of the best defenses in the NFL. And please don't come back with "and one of the worst offenses in the NFL" because every one and there mother can tell you that this offense was murdered by injuries this year


It's been one of the worst offenses in the NFL for nearly 3 years. It's just even worse this year.


What really bugs me is the Vikings are back in their "half a team" dynamic. It seems to happen frequently. Good defense/bad offense or good offense/bad defense. If these guys want to get into the Super Bowl, they have to field a more complete team.

BTW, that's not to say injuries didn't negatively affect the Vikings. Injuries always do that. It's the worst part of the game.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:57 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
losperros wrote:
What really bugs me is the Vikings are back in their "half a team" dynamic. It seems to happen frequently. Good defense/bad offense or good offense/bad defense. If these guys want to get into the Super Bowl, they have to field a more complete team.


It bugs me too. A lot. we've been watching that dynamic play out again and again for decades now. To me, it's no great feather in Rick Spielman's cap to build a top 10 defense when it comes at the expense of the offense falling to the bottom of the league.

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BTW, that's not to say injuries didn't negatively affect the Vikings. Injuries always do that. It's the worst part of the game.


Agreed.


Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
ALSO, as for Spielman, he'a put together one of the best defenses in the NFL. And please don't come back with "and one of the worst offenses in the NFL" because every one and there mother can tell you that this offense was murdered by injuries this year


It's been one of the worst offenses in the NFL for nearly 3 years. It's just even worse this year.


Not sure if this entire post belongs in here or not but I'm going to post it anyways.

And we usually have the best run game in the NFL. We just haven't had the QB. When you lose everything plus the OL, what are we really expecting here?? You can't overcome this many injuries. You can sit there and give me the "depth" talk all you want but when you lose the two most key positions on the OL, a future HOF RB and a QB that has ran this offense for 3 years now, what do you really expect? Carson Wentz sitting behind Teddy?? Ezekiel Elliot sitting behind AP?? Jack Conklin and Ronnie Stanley sitting behind our tackles??

Here is what amazes me most......there are SO many on here to criticize our "OL scouting", Spielmans "questionable picks", all the guys that were on the "Waynes is a bust" bandwagon and have now moved onto the "Treadwell and Alexander are busts" bandwagon, the guys that say "shoulda went OL, shoulda went OL", etc.

Somebody please give me some insight on what YOU would have done if you were in his shoes given where we picked each year, money that could/couldnt be spent in FA, the talent in the draft, etc. I want to hear your take. Everyone loves to criticize but never has any of their own answers. Instead they just sit there and act like its so easy and they know what to do.


Lets layout the OL for the past 3 years. And lets especially focus on tackle since that's easily our biggest weakness right now. I'll just break down the first round for the most part since that's where the big time OTs usually are.


2014 OTs that were drafted AFTER where our first pick was (First round):

....we picked at #9 and selected Anthony Barr. Also slid back in at the end to select Teddy Bridgewater.

-Taylor Lewan drafted by the Titans 11th overall (solid pick and he has panned out over the years)

-Ju'Wuan James drafted by the Dolphins 19th overall (desperation pick by them because their OL was so bad. Guy had no right going in the first round and it's showed since)


ASSESSMENT: 1 good, 1 bad. Not much to choose from outside of that though. 2nd round was horrible. 2 taken and 2 bad.

KEEP IN MIND: if we took either of these two at #9, we currently wouldnt have Anthony Barr on our team and would have who knows what at SLB.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2015 OTs that were drafted AFTER where our first pick was (First round):

......we picked at #11 and selected Trae Waynes.

-Andrus Peat drafted by the Saints 13th overall (struggled in New Orleans and was beat out by Terron Armstead but is starting now due to injury. Has struggled this year)

-Cedric Ogbuehi drafted by the Bengals 21st overall (has been horrendous this year and was benched for Eric Winston)

-DJ Humphries drafted by the Cardinals 24th overall (has been blasted multiple times by his coach for lack of work ethic and was a healthy scratch all last season. Hasnt done much at all this season)


ASSESSMENT: Horrible class. Not a good one to choose from. 2nd round wasnt much better. 4 taken, only one worthwhile was Havenstein.

KEEP IN MIND: if we took either of these three at #11, we currently wouldnt have Trae Waynes on our team and would have who knows what backing up a 38 year old Newman at outside CB. Now Trae is pretty much the starter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2016 OTs that were drafted AFTER where our first pick was (First round):

ZERO


ASSESSMENT: Very solid class but it wouldve taken a big time move to get up as high as we needed to. 1 OT went in the entire second round and he currently doesnt play for GB

KEEP IN MIND: Nothing. There was really no options for us at 23 unless we gave up the farm to move up.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

......Overall, I'm counting TWO. I'll repeat that......TWO offensive tackles that have been worth it in the last 3 years in rounds 1-2. That makes up for 11 offensive tackles taken in the last 3 years between rounds 1-2.

Two of those 11 have panned out. Taylor Lewan and Rob Havenstein.


......2 for 11

So for everyone saying/acting like they know what we should've done given the picks we had, enlighten me on some better options here. I just laid the ground work. You can see it yourself that the OTs there when we picked have been extremely weak. In turn, it's not that easy. So say what you will about Waynes, Treadwell and Alexander. All I know is, there wasnt crap their for OL. Especially OTs which is what we needed most.

So hopefully I put the "Spielman has no clue how to scout OL, we shoulda drafted OL" somewhat to bed especially over the last 3 years because there are too many that are speaking before they actually think right now.

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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Somebody please give me some insight on what YOU would have done if you were in his shoes given where we picked each year, money that could/couldnt be spent in FA, the talent in the draft, etc. I want to hear your take. Everyone loves to criticize but never has any of their own answers. Instead they just sit there and act like its so easy and they know what to do.




I advocated signing Donald Penn as a stopgap and trading up to grab one of the top tackles in 2016. Its been time to move on from Kalil and Loadholt.


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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
ALSO, as for Spielman, he'a put together one of the best defenses in the NFL. And please don't come back with "and one of the worst offenses in the NFL" because every one and there mother can tell you that this offense was murdered by injuries this year


It's been one of the worst offenses in the NFL for nearly 3 years. It's just even worse this year.


Not sure if this entire post belongs in here or not but I'm going to post it anyways.

And we usually have the best run game in the NFL. We just haven't had the QB. When you lose everything plus the OL, what are we really expecting here?? You can't overcome this many injuries.


... and you can't simply attribute bad offense to this year's injuries when the offense has been bad for years now and was bad from the start this year, even when healthy. What we expecting here? A more balanced team that doesn't have a bottom 6 offense, which is what the Vikes have had under Zimmer.


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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
So for everyone saying/acting like they know what we should've done given the picks we had, enlighten me on some better options here. I just laid the ground work. You can see it yourself that the OTs there when we picked have been extremely weak. In turn, it's not that easy. So say what you will about Waynes, Treadwell and Alexander. All I know is, there wasnt crap their for OL. Especially OTs which is what we needed most.

So hopefully I put the "Spielman has no clue how to scout OL, we shoulda drafted OL" somewhat to bed especially over the last 3 years because there are too many that are speaking before they actually think right now.


I appreciate the effort but that doesn't put the problem to bed for me.

The Vikings need a better offensive line, not just better offensive tackles and they didn't just have to look to the first round to get better. They have needed to upgrade the interior of their line since before Spielman even became the GM. They've had opportunities to do that and have passed on them too often. The complaint many of us have had for years remains perfectly legitimate: building a strong offensive line, as a whole and with solid depth has not been enough of a priority.

The bottom line is a years-old problem remains and has become steadily worse. It's a failure, pure and simple. There's no reason to excuse it or apologize for it. It just needs to be corrected.


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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
So for everyone saying/acting like they know what we should've done given the picks we had, enlighten me on some better options here. I just laid the ground work. You can see it yourself that the OTs there when we picked have been extremely weak. In turn, it's not that easy. So say what you will about Waynes, Treadwell and Alexander. All I know is, there wasnt crap their for OL. Especially OTs which is what we needed most.

So hopefully I put the "Spielman has no clue how to scout OL, we shoulda drafted OL" somewhat to bed especially over the last 3 years because there are too many that are speaking before they actually think right now.


I appreciate the effort but that doesn't put the problem to bed for me.

The Vikings need a better offensive line, not just better offensive tackles and they didn't just have to look to the first round to get better. They have needed to upgrade the interior of their line since before Spielman even became the GM. They've had opportunities to do that and have passed on them too often. The complaint many of us have had for years remains perfectly legitimate: building a strong offensive line, as a whole and with solid depth has not been enough of a priority.

The bottom line is a years-old problem remains and has become steadily worse. It's a failure, pure and simple. There's no reason to excuse it or apologize for it. It just needs to be corrected.


100% correct Jim. I don't see how anyone could argue against this point.

Three years under Mike Zimmer and we have not once had a total offensive rank above the 20s. Zimmer can't get a pass from me anymore - he needs to be held accountable for the offense's failure.

Unfortunately, I don't see a quick fix for this offensive line. We are stuck with a horrible player in Brandon Fusco for at least another season. Berger will be here one more season (which is ok). But, given the cap situation and the overall lack of talent in the FA pool - where are the upgrades going to come from this offseason? Hard to find instant starters on the line in the 2nd to 7th round.

Spielman and Zimmer have dug this grave. It will be on them to either lay down in it or climb out.

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Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:24 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
So for everyone saying/acting like they know what we should've done given the picks we had, enlighten me on some better options here. I just laid the ground work. You can see it yourself that the OTs there when we picked have been extremely weak. In turn, it's not that easy. So say what you will about Waynes, Treadwell and Alexander. All I know is, there wasnt crap their for OL. Especially OTs which is what we needed most.

So hopefully I put the "Spielman has no clue how to scout OL, we shoulda drafted OL" somewhat to bed especially over the last 3 years because there are too many that are speaking before they actually think right now.


I appreciate the effort but that doesn't put the problem to bed for me.

The Vikings need a better offensive line, not just better offensive tackles and they didn't just have to look to the first round to get better. They have needed to upgrade the interior of their line since before Spielman even became the GM. They've had opportunities to do that and have passed on them too often. The complaint many of us have had for years remains perfectly legitimate: building a strong offensive line, as a whole and with solid depth has not been enough of a priority.

The bottom line is a years-old problem remains and has become steadily worse. It's a failure, pure and simple. There's no reason to excuse it or apologize for it. It just needs to be corrected.


Amen.

Well said, Jim, and diplomatically and in a measured manner, per usual.

This FO has dones some things well; the OL is not one of them.


Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:55 am
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Post Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
So for everyone saying/acting like they know what we should've done given the picks we had, enlighten me on some better options here. I just laid the ground work. You can see it yourself that the OTs there when we picked have been extremely weak. In turn, it's not that easy. So say what you will about Waynes, Treadwell and Alexander. All I know is, there wasnt crap their for OL. Especially OTs which is what we needed most.

So hopefully I put the "Spielman has no clue how to scout OL, we shoulda drafted OL" somewhat to bed especially over the last 3 years because there are too many that are speaking before they actually think right now.


I appreciate the effort but that doesn't put the problem to bed for me.

The Vikings need a better offensive line, not just better offensive tackles and they didn't just have to look to the first round to get better. They have needed to upgrade the interior of their line since before Spielman even became the GM. They've had opportunities to do that and have passed on them too often. The complaint many of us have had for years remains perfectly legitimate: building a strong offensive line, as a whole and with solid depth has not been enough of a priority.

The bottom line is a years-old problem remains and has become steadily worse. It's a failure, pure and simple. There's no reason to excuse it or apologize for it. It just needs to be corrected.


Berger and Boone are pretty solid starters for the most part. Fusco is terrible and Harris was way better but who knows whats going on with him. The tackles are hurt. I would say we needed OT more than anything since those were our glaring weaknesses. The post above literally proves that within the last three years, our options were extremely limited. I'm not sure what you're missing. Look deeper in the drafts if you want too. The tackle classes have not been good at all in the last 3 years outside of the early first round this past year. And to say they will pan out is even a question mark. Look at Kalil.

I've referred to the past 3 years. So what is your solution to the past 3 years?? It's easy to say we could have traded up in 2016 but like I said, the jury is still out on those guys. The free agents have been extremely limited. The draft picks haven't been good. You say it could've been fixed but how?? How with the picks and money we've had the past 3 years?? Granted we can go way back but as of late, which most people are talking about and referring to, there have been limited opportunities

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Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:05 am
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