Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:46 am

losperros wrote: Definitely agree about Waynes. He and Rhodes are becoming a top notch CB tandem.

It's nice to finally see the Vikings defense with a quality secondary. I just wish everyone could stay healthy.
Agreed. So many fans, as usual just like Treadwell, were so impatient with Waynes just because Peters was performing and playing and Waynes wasnt. Now we go a full year listening to Treadwell being a bust because Fuller is performing and playing and Treadwell isn't. Fans have to learn that its just how Zimmer operates. Why rush them when there is no need to. With the way Diggs, CP and Thielen are playing, whats the rush??? Just because he was a first round pick we have to play him? No. It's not that Newman has necessarily regressed since last year. Its just that Waynes has gotten a lot better. Thats what I think will happen next year with Treadwell
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by fiestavike » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:48 am

808vikingsfan wrote: When is Floyd coming back?
Probably never, if he doesn't make it back this season. He won't be a Viking next year either way.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:20 am

fiestavike wrote: Probably never, if he doesn't make it back this season. He won't be a Viking next year either way.

That seems increasingly likely. :(

Since 2007, the Vikings have drafted the following 12 players in the first round:

Adrian Peterson
Percy Harvin
Christian Ponder
Matt Kalil
Harrison Smith
Shariff Floyd
Xavier Rhodes
Cordarrelle Patterson
Anthony Barr
Teddy Bridgewater
Trae Waynes
LaQuon Treadwell

How many of them have played or will play for the team beyond their rookie contract (including, in cases where it applies, the 5th year option)?

Smith made it. Harvin and Ponder didn't make it. Rhodes looks like a good bet to make it, as does Barr.

Kalil and Floyd are both looking like good candidates to not last beyond their first deal with the team either.

Bridgewater's situation is more complex due to his injury but there's a decent chance he won't play for the Vikes beyond his rookie contract either.

Patterson may or may not, depending on if they can re-sign him after this season. He certainly should be with the team beyond his rookie deal.

It's too soon to tell with Waynes and Treadwell.

We could easily be looking at 5 or 6 of those 12 players not being with the team beyond their rookie contract. Ouch.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:32 am

Mothman wrote:
That seems increasingly likely. :(

Since 2007, the Vikings have drafted the following 12 players in the first round:

Adrian Peterson
Percy Harvin
Christian Ponder
Matt Kalil
Harrison Smith
Shariff Floyd
Xavier Rhodes
Cordarrelle Patterson
Anthony Barr
Teddy Bridgewater
Trae Waynes
LaQuon Treadwell

How many of them have played or will play for the team beyond their rookie contract (including, in cases where it applies, the 5th year option)?

Smith made it. Harvin and Ponder didn't make it. Rhodes looks like a good bet to make it, as does Barr.

Kalil and Floyd are both looking like good candidates to not last beyond their first deal with the team either.

Bridgewater's situation is more complex due to his injury but there's a decent chance he won't play for the Vikes beyond his rookie contract either.

Patterson may or may not, depending on if they can re-sign him after this season. He certainly should be with the team beyond his rookie deal.

It's too soon to tell with Waynes and Treadwell.

We could easily be looking at 5 or 6 of those 12 players not being with the team beyond their rookie contract. Ouch.
Floyd had his 5th year option excersized already so there should be no reason he wouldn't be back next year. Kalil needs to be re-signed regardless because of our current tackle situation. That's a must IMO. I would have to believe they keep Patterson. He's too valuable to this team in so many ways. The only true bust out of the group is probably Ponder. Others have been hampered by injury. A lot of it is just bad luck. Not necessarily bad drafting. Injuries are why there are question marks next to a lot of those guys. That's just part of the game unfortunately. You could draft the "least-injury prone" guy out there but a freak injury could hit him like it hit Teddy. I'm going to guess you can look at a lot of teams in the NFL and the trend is very similar
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Nunin » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:38 am

i think they need to keep kalil too. at a lower price

i'm wondering what percentage of o-line picks are still playing for the teams that drafted them?

the vikes seem to have very few...even with the injuries.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Texas Vike » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:04 pm

Nunin wrote:i think they need to keep kalil too. at a lower price

i'm wondering what percentage of o-line picks are still playing for the teams that drafted them?

the vikes seem to have very few...even with the injuries.

I think our drafting has been pretty strong over the past five years, but if there's one position they've absolutely failed to scout well it's certainly OL. Studwell needs to improve at this!
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:33 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Floyd had his 5th year option excersized already so there should be no reason he wouldn't be back next year.
He might be back but considering how much time he's missed during his short career, and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that missed time this year, it seems possible the Vikings will decide his $6,757,000 salary in 2017 is too high. I'm not sure which direction the team will go...
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:38 pm

Just to be clear, my point in posting the list above was that a team obviously wants to hit on first round picks and find core players who will become quality starters and last beyond their rookie contracts. If the Vikings only end up with, say, 7 of 12 first round picks remaining with the team beyond that first deal, that strikes me as pretty detrimental to team-building.

We'll see how it works out.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by S197 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:42 pm

Mothman wrote:Just to be clear, my point in posting the list above was that a team obviously wants to hit on first round picks and find core players who will become quality starters and last beyond their rookie contracts. If the Vikings only end up with, say, 7 of 12 first round picks remaining with the team beyond that first deal, that strikes me as pretty detrimental to team-building.

We'll see how it works out.
How does it compare to the rest of the league? I think that needs to be answered first before getting too critical. Also, I think it's a matter of quality over quantity. Peterson speaks for himself. I think we can probably say Smith does too. Then you have high quality guys like Rhodes and Barr. Even guys who didn't necessarily pan out were strong contributors. Percy Harvin won rookie of the year.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:54 pm

S197 wrote:How does it compare to the rest of the league? I think that needs to be answered first before getting too critical.


I don't know how it compares to the rest of the league and I wasn't trying to be particularly critical in the first place, at least not beyond pointing out that building a champion gets even harder if 40-50% of the last 12 first round picks don't stick around past their first contract with the team (for any reason).
Also, I think it's a matter of quality over quantity. Peterson speaks for himself. I think we can probably say Smith does too. Then you have high quality guys like Rhodes and Barr. Even guys who didn't necessarily pan out were strong contributors. Percy Harvin won rookie of the year.
Yet he was still gone by the end of his first contract. The point isn't whether these guys were good for a year or two, it's how much they help the team in the long term. In the first round, a team should be looking for and finding core players, the nucleus of the team.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:58 pm

Mothman wrote: He might be back but considering how much time he's missed during his short career, and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that missed time this year, it seems possible the Vikings will decide his $6,757,000 salary in 2017 is too high. I'm not sure which direction the team will go...
But doesnt that result in dead money?? It's part of his rookie contract still so they would have to eat a decent chunk of money if they let him go I'm guessing
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:00 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
I think our drafting has been pretty strong over the past five years, but if there's one position they've absolutely failed to scout well it's certainly OL. Studwell needs to improve at this!
I agree when it comes to previous years but last year we didnt have much choice unless we traded way up into the first round. Look at who was drafted for OTs after Treadwell. One by GB in the second. Next one didnt go until the 3rd I believe
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:02 pm

S197 wrote: How does it compare to the rest of the league? I think that needs to be answered first before getting too critical. Also, I think it's a matter of quality over quantity. Peterson speaks for himself. I think we can probably say Smith does too. Then you have high quality guys like Rhodes and Barr. Even guys who didn't necessarily pan out were strong contributors. Percy Harvin won rookie of the year.
And Kalil was a pro bowler. My guess is, if you look at the rest of the league, I don't see it being much different.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: But doesnt that result in dead money?? It's part of his rookie contract still so they would have to eat a decent chunk of money if they let him go I'm guessing

They could cut him without it resulting in any dead cap money. The 5th year options don't become fully guaranteed until the third day of the 2017 league year.
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Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:40 pm

I give up. My point's already been completely lost.
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