Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 11

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Mothman
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:10 pm

Texas Vike wrote:I agree with Nunin and Moth. On both occasions last night AR definitely intentionally fell to the ground in a head first dive. I don't think anyone should be able to get up and advance the ball after that. It's like waving a white flag and then shooting the rival once he lets his guard down.
In other words: cheating.

While we're on the subject of those insidious packers: what's up with Jordy Nelson getting awarded a catch on that TD?

I'm convinced NFL officials no longer have any idea what constitutes a catch by rule.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Jordysghost » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:10 pm

Nunin wrote:packers season is toast
Not yet, the injuries might be too much but we are two games out, play both the Vikes and Lions once again yet, and they play each other once to go.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Nunin » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:10 pm

Purple Reign wrote: No, point 1 doesn't resolve it - here it is again: (1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance

It doesn't just say falling to the ground, is says you also have to clearly make no immediate effort to advance. I think they worded it this way so if a player stumbles and falls to the ground he can still get up and run, otherwise the ref doesn't always know for sure if a player is really giving himself up. By sliding feet first, then they know he is giving himself up.

Bottom line is going to the ground on purpose doesn't mean you are giving yourself up (unless you slide feet first).
i disagree...if you intentionally go to the ground, ie take a knee, you are down. if you stumble and fall you can get up and go if untouched. happens all the time. but saying a QB who dives to avoid being tackled has not given himself up in the same manner is confusing to me.

the rule is speaking clearly to intent
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:11 pm

Purple Reign wrote: That is an excellent way of putting it. :thumbsup:
Yay! We've finally resolved it. :)
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Nunin » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:11 pm

Jordysghost wrote: Not yet, the injuries might be too much but we are two games out, play both the Vikes and Lions once again yet, and they play each other once to go.
speaking figuratively i was
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:12 pm

Nunin wrote: speaking figuratively i was

Yoda! You're a Vikes fan!
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Nunin » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:12 pm

Mothman wrote: I other words: cheating.

While we're on the subject of those insidious packers: what's up with Jordy Nelson getting awarded a catch on that TD?

I'm convinced NFL officials no longer have any idea what constitutes a catch by rule.

((sigh)) i agree. it brings to mind the shiancoe catch that wasn't
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Purple Reign » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:13 pm

Texas Vike wrote: I agree with Nunin and Moth. On both occasions last night AR definitely intentionally fell to the ground in a head first dive. I don't think anyone should be able to get up and advance the ball after that. It's like waving a white flag and then shooting the rival once he lets his guard down.
Except for the fact that by him diving head first it doesn't prevent a defender from hitting him. A defender should know that he can still hit him legally. So according to the rule, if Rodgers had immediately gotten back up after diving to the ground, he could have advanced the ball. Since he didn't do that immediately, then yes, it should be called dead.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Jordysghost » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:13 pm

Mothman wrote: I other words: cheating.

While we're on the subject of those insidious packers: what's up with Jordy Nelson getting awarded a catch on that TD?

I'm convinced NFL officials no longer have any idea what constitutes a catch by rule.
I didnt think it was a td either but the endzone is different then the field of play in how long you need to possess it, as is the fact that he wasnt going to the ground.

Right, you who absolves the Patriots of never winning a SB without a cheating scandal claim Rodgers was 'Cheating' trying to take advantage of a rule, its his choice to dive or slide if he wants, he isnt responsible for what the opposing players do.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Jordysghost » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:15 pm

Nunin wrote:
((sigh)) i agree. it brings to mind the shiancoe catch that wasn't
Why didnt you challange that? If its the game im thinking of there was 3, yes 3 incorrectly ruled tds in the vikings favor that night and all of then were challenged and overturned.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Nunin » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:16 pm

Purple Reign wrote: Except for the fact that by him diving head first it doesn't prevent a defender from hitting him. A defender should know that he can still hit him legally. So according to the rule, if Rodgers had immediately gotten back up after diving to the ground, he could have advanced the ball. Since he didn't do that immediately, then yes, it should be called dead.

it is a little grey right there.....i do believe. but that case would only seem to have merit if the runner was diving toward a goal, ie 1st down or td....whereas Rodgers was clearly diving so he wouldn't have to take a hit.

i guess the solution is just to smash him good once he dives
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Nunin » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:18 pm

Jordysghost wrote: Why didnt you challange that? If its the game im thinking of there was 3, yes 3 incorrectly ruled tds in the vikings favor that night and all of then were challenged and overturned.
my challenge flag was in my other pants
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:18 pm

Jordysghost wrote:I didnt think it was a td either but the endzone is different then the field of play in how long you need to possess it, as is the fact that he wasnt going to the ground.

Right, you who absolves the Patriots of never winning a SB without a cheating scandal claim Rodgers was 'Cheating' trying to take advantage of a rule, its his choice to dive or slide if he wants, he isnt responsible for what the opposing players do.
:roll:

It's as if you don't even comprehend the discussion.

The "cheating" occurred when intentionally going to the ground, waiting, and then trying to advance the ball. That's not taking advantage of a rule. that's breaking one. It's not the same thing.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Jordysghost » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:19 pm

Nunin wrote: speaking figuratively i was
I hear you, but I think its more then just a statistical possibility at this point, but again, the injuries to the secondary are just getting overwhelming.
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Re: Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 1

Post by Purple Reign » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:19 pm

Mothman wrote: Exactly. It doesn't matter if it's head first or feet first. If the runner goes down intentionally, on his own, he's declaring himself down.
Have to disagree. Now you are requiring the refs to make a judgement call. Did he go down intentionally or did he just trip? And if it doesn't make any difference, then why allow him to be hit if he slides head first but not feet first?
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