Cardinals @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 11

[Purple Reign]

I am too. The whole idea behind the slide is that the player is giving himself up, surrendering and thus ending the play. Once a QB slides, he should no longer be allowed to advance the ball.

One important aspect here that hasn't been mentioned is that the rule specifically states that the slide to give oneself up must be feet first. Rodgers dove head first so technically that is not giving himself up (unless he is clearly not attempting to get up and advance the ball). He could have slid head first and then immediately got up and continued on if he wanted to. The first time he did that he didn't get up right away so the officials were correct in calling the play dead. But sliding head first doesn't automatically stop the play.

[Raptorman]

One important aspect here that hasn't been mentioned is that the rule specifically states that the slide to give oneself up must be feet first. Rodgers dove head first so technically that is not giving himself up (unless he is clearly not attempting to get up and advance the ball). He could have slid head first and then immediately got up and continued on if he wanted to. The first time he did that he didn't get up right away so the officials were correct in calling the play dead. But sliding head first doesn't automatically stop the play.

No, but when you look around to see if anyone is coming to tag you and then get up.........that's what he did. Had he not looked both ways he might have got away with it.

[Texas Vike]

One important aspect here that hasn't been mentioned is that the rule specifically states that the slide to give oneself up must be feet first. Rodgers dove head first so technically that is not giving himself up (unless he is clearly not attempting to get up and advance the ball). He could have slid head first and then immediately got up and continued on if he wanted to. The first time he did that he didn't get up right away so the officials were correct in calling the play dead. But sliding head first doesn't automatically stop the play.

He's exploiting the rules and deserves to get crunched. I hope Sendejo is the one to do it, that guy can pack a punch. Scratch that. Linval would lay it on a lot thicker.

[Mothman]

One important aspect here that hasn't been mentioned is that the rule specifically states that the slide to give oneself up must be feet first. Rodgers dove head first so technically that is not giving himself up (unless he is clearly not attempting to get up and advance the ball). He could have slid head first and then immediately got up and continued on if he wanted to. The first time he did that he didn't get up right away so the officials were correct in calling the play dead. But sliding head first doesn't automatically stop the play.

I understand that but as you said, he didn't immediately get up. Rather than saying "Once a QB slides" above I should have written "once a QB gives himself up". I don't think of going down head first as a slide in the first place...

[IrishViking]

I understand that but as you said, he didn't immediately get up. Rather than saying "Once a QB slides" above I should have written "once a QB gives himself up". I don't think of going down head first as a slide in the first place...

Rodgers tried to "Rules lawyer" the league. Everyone's played a board game with someone like that

[Purple Reign]

Rodgers tried to "Rules lawyer" the league. Everyone's played a board game with someone like that

Guess I don't see it that way. It really isn't any different than the qb faking a spike and then throwing a pass (to deceive the opponent) . The rules state that a feet first slide is giving yourself up, not head first dive. A runner could lose his balance and fall head first to the ground and still get up and run so sliding feet first would be a signal to officials/defenders that he is intentionally giving himself up. Players should know the rules, and if they don't, more power to the ones that do IMO.

[Purple Reign]

I understand that but as you said, he didn't immediately get up. Rather than saying "Once a QB slides" above I should have written "once a QB gives himself up". I don't think of going down head first as a slide in the first place...

I agree - once a qb gives himself up, by sliding feet first, then he should not be able to advance the ball. But diving head first you should be able to according to the rules.

[Nunin]

I agree - once a qb gives himself up, by sliding feet first, then he should not be able to advance the ball. But diving head first you should be able to according to the rules.

i think the way that rule is being interpreted is wrong. i believe it had originally to do with where the ball was spotted...no? feet first slide, the ball was spotted where you hit the ground. head first was where you ended the slide.

i mean if you are about to take a hit as a ball carrier and you fall to the ground rather than get hit...you've given yourself up, amirite?

[Purple Reign]

i think the way that rule is being interpreted is wrong. i believe it had originally to do with where the ball was spotted...no? feet first slide, the ball was spotted where you hit the ground. head first was where you ended the slide.

i mean if you are about to take a hit as a ball carrier and you fall to the ground rather than get hit...you've given yourself up, amirite?

That depends on how you slide. Feet first, yes. Just falling down only if you don't immediately attempt to advance the ball. Here is how it is worded in the rule book and note that it only mentions a feet first slide, not a head first slide (under the definition of DEAD BALL DECLARED):

(d) when a runner declares himself down by:
(1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance
(2) sliding feet-first on the ground. When a runner slides feet first, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet
Notes:
(1) Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.
(2) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.
(3) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

[Nunin]

That is correct, especially if you slide feet first. Just falling down can also be interpreted that way if you don't attempt to advance the ball. Here is how it is worded in the rule book (under the definition of DEAD BALL DECLARED):

(d) when a runner declares himself down by:
(1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance
(2) sliding feet-first on the ground. When a runner slides feet first, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet
Notes:
(1) Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.
(2) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.
(3) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

so, point one seems to resolve it. if you fall to the ground on purpose you are declaring yourself down....
the difference being that a head first slide opens you up to being hit, which is why QBs are coached to slide feet first.

[Mothman]

so, point one seems to resolve it. if you fall to the ground on purpose you are declaring yourself down....

Exactly. It doesn't matter if it's head first or feet first. If the runner goes down intentionally, on his own, he's declaring himself down.

[Purple Reign]

so, point one seems to resolve it. if you fall to the ground on purpose you are declaring yourself down....
the difference being that a head first slide opens you up to being hit, which is why QBs are coached to slide feet first.

No, point 1 doesn't resolve it - here it is again: (1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance

It doesn't just say falling to the ground, is says you also have to clearly make no immediate effort to advance. I think they worded it this way so if a player stumbles and falls to the ground he can still get up and run, otherwise the ref doesn't always know for sure if a player is really giving himself up. By sliding feet first, then they know he is giving himself up.

Bottom line is going to the ground on purpose doesn't mean you are giving yourself up (unless you slide feet first).

[Mothman]

No, point 1 doesn't resolve it - here it is again: (1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance

It doesn't just say falling to the ground, is says you also have to clearly make no immediate effort to advance.

Right.. and Rodgers didn't make an immediate effort to advance.

This rule obviously requires some judgment on the part of the officials but a runner can't intentionally go to the ground to avoid contact and then advance the ball.

[Texas Vike]

No, point 1 doesn't resolve it - here it is again: (1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance

It doesn't just say falling to the ground, is says you also have to clearly make no immediate effort to advance. I think they worded it this way so if a player stumbles and falls to the ground he can still get up and run, otherwise the ref doesn't always know for sure if a player is really giving himself up. By sliding feet first, then they know he is giving himself up.

I agree with Nunin and Moth. On both occasions last night AR definitely intentionally fell to the ground in a head first dive. I don't think anyone should be able to get up and advance the ball after that. It's like waving a white flag and then shooting the rival once he lets his guard down.

[Purple Reign]

Right.. and Rodgers didn't make an immediate effort to advance.

This rule obviously requires some judgment on the part of the officials but a runner can't intentionally go to the ground to avoid contact and then advance the ball.

That is an excellent way of putting it.