This team is a mess

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Maelstrom88
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:57 pm

Spielman and Zimmer are both excellent at their jobs
They gave been hit HARD by injuries this year. I'd like you see AP retire a Vikings but that will be up to him. They have to keep Sam and rebuild the oline.
Offseason Goal: Draft durable, tough, intelligent offensive lineman who are dependable technicians and avoid penalties aka drive killers.

AlldayPotter
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by AlldayPotter » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:40 pm

I wouldn't say our draft is a bust. Especially treadwell, I think it's on the coaching staff that keeps johnson as the starter..... I mean why??? He only has like 7 rec 100 yards on season for a no. 2 reciever. Why he continues to see more reps than patterson, thielen, and treadwell, idk. But it's ####.

I felt our offense did pretty good yesterday besides a couple drives that reverted back to norv turner statis and ran ugly run plays. Bradford is like 61/82 I think in last 2 games. It's just stupid 3rd and shorts that we don't convert that kill the drives. Why asiata gets more carries than mckinnon or even hillman idk. That's abother wtf on coaching staff.

I think the biggest concern besides obviously the o line, is the defense. They do not get pressure anymore and don't have sacks. Funny how when our offense starts to shine the defense becomes lacking.

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PacificNorseWest
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:54 pm

AlldayPotter wrote:I wouldn't say our draft is a bust. Especially treadwell, I think it's on the coaching staff that keeps johnson as the starter..... I mean why??? He only has like 7 rec 100 yards on season for a no. 2 reciever. Why he continues to see more reps than patterson, thielen, and treadwell, idk. But it's ####.

I felt our offense did pretty good yesterday besides a couple drives that reverted back to norv turner statis and ran ugly run plays. Bradford is like 61/82 I think in last 2 games. It's just stupid 3rd and shorts that we don't convert that kill the drives. Why asiata gets more carries than mckinnon or even hillman idk. That's abother wtf on coaching staff.

I think the biggest concern besides obviously the o line, is the defense. They do not get pressure anymore and don't have sacks. Funny how when our offense starts to shine the defense becomes lacking.
Treadwell was inactive on Sunday due to an injury or else I think (I hope), he was set to build off his career high one reception from two weekends ago.

Bradford's numbers are nice, all things considered. I just wish he was a bit more mobile.

The defense I think will be ok.

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halfgiz
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by halfgiz » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:09 pm

Rick owns the offense line problem...we should have drafted 2 decent offensive linemen this year instead of our 4th round Willie Beavers as our offensive line salvation.
Rick also should have got rid of Kalil and picked up a decent FA tackle.
Where would we be right now if he would have done that?

Our wide receivers situation is a hot mess. Don't know if that is George Stewart's problem or Norv's and Ricks.
Last 2 years Flash is benched. Give Wright a decent contract then bench him this year. And it's funny Wallace is having a big year this year for Ravens.
I think Norv walked because Rick didn't get him any help on the offensive line before the deadline. But that is just my opinion.
Raiders done what we should have done and how is that working for them?

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Re: This team is a mess

Post by indianation65 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:54 pm

I agree with this post topic title, and it was actually phrased in a nice way.

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UKno1VIKING
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by UKno1VIKING » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:01 am

Of course the O-line is the route to our shortcomings this year. I think any football fan can identify that.
However, as far as not drafting a lineman in the first two rounds, i think we were 100% right not to.
Here's my reasoning, and i assume Slick's, as its the only logical reason i can find.
In this draft, i believe Rick was selecting with the view that this teams best chance to win an SB was in the next two years. A lot of the top players are in their "golden years" and the youngster studs are experienced enough now to play at a top level. So Rick was selecting for this purpose, with the future being an after thought. In my view, rightly so.
To help out Teddy, we needed a big bodied receiver to give him somewhere to go. Treadwell was always going to be the guy, and i still have hope he can be. Who would of thought, Thielen, Wright, Patterson and co would step up like they have. Hopefully this will give Treadwell the competition to become the receiver we hope he is.
So the no.1 pick looking at the immediate future.
Mackenzie Alexander is a pick that they've made for Captain and Newman to groom as the new Nickel for the next couple of years before they hang them up. I don't care how much abuse Waynes seems to get, i see a lot of good stuff from him as well as the errors. I reckon him and Rhodes will be a cracking tandem for years to come. Slotting another young back in at nickel with the rest of this young secondary means we are set at the back for a very long time. Okay this is not immediate cover for the superbowl push, but after Alexander, theres not a right lot left at corner. A decent backup for now, with a thought for the future.
Willie Beavers was the back up for the O-line, and we are yet to see if he will work out. Although as we haven't seen him yet, and the line has been decimated since we drafted him. I'm not that hopeful.
The point is, i don't know how much you can put this on Slick. At the time of the draft, our O-line was:
Kalil,
Fusco,
Sullivan,
Boone,
Loadholt

..........and Smith waiting in the wings.
This Line if fit, would of been serviceable at worst.

There aren't many rookies (especially in this draft) who you could plug and play straight into an NFL line. So with Rick looking at the immediate future, i think he was spot on the way he went.
Hopefully his draft choices will work out also, like so many of his have already done so.

Our only route next year for me is to pick up lineman in free agency. To free the necessary cap space, someone has got to go. Probably AD. I still believe in Jet. I just think he's stuck behind an unmanageable line.

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halfgiz
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by halfgiz » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:34 am

UKno1VIKING wrote:Of course the O-line is the route to our shortcomings this year. I think any football fan can identify that.
However, as far as not drafting a lineman in the first two rounds, i think we were 100% right not to.
Here's my reasoning, and i assume Slick's, as its the only logical reason i can find.
In this draft, i believe Rick was selecting with the view that this teams best chance to win an SB was in the next two years. A lot of the top players are in their "golden years" and the youngster studs are experienced enough now to play at a top level. So Rick was selecting for this purpose, with the future being an after thought. In my view, rightly so.
To help out Teddy, we needed a big bodied receiver to give him somewhere to go. Treadwell was always going to be the guy, and i still have hope he can be. Who would of thought, Thielen, Wright, Patterson and co would step up like they have. Hopefully this will give Treadwell the competition to become the receiver we hope he is.
So the no.1 pick looking at the immediate future.
Mackenzie Alexander is a pick that they've made for Captain and Newman to groom as the new Nickel for the next couple of years before they hang them up. I don't care how much abuse Waynes seems to get, i see a lot of good stuff from him as well as the errors. I reckon him and Rhodes will be a cracking tandem for years to come. Slotting another young back in at nickel with the rest of this young secondary means we are set at the back for a very long time. Okay this is not immediate cover for the superbowl push, but after Alexander, theres not a right lot left at corner. A decent backup for now, with a thought for the future.
Willie Beavers was the back up for the O-line, and we are yet to see if he will work out. Although as we haven't seen him yet, and the line has been decimated since we drafted him. I'm not that hopeful.
The point is, i don't know how much you can put this on Slick. At the time of the draft, our O-line was:
Kalil,
Fusco,
Sullivan,
Boone,
Loadholt

..........and Smith waiting in the wings.
This Line if fit, would of been serviceable at worst.

There aren't many rookies (especially in this draft) who you could plug and play straight into an NFL line. So with Rick looking at the immediate future, i think he was spot on the way he went.
Hopefully his draft choices will work out also, like so many of his have already done so.

Our only route next year for me is to pick up lineman in free agency. To free the necessary cap space, someone has got to go. Probably AD. I still believe in Jet. I just think he's stuck behind an unmanageable line.
Kalil was one of the worst rated left tackles in the leauge.
Fusco was terrible at left guard, that's why they moved him back to right guard. In which he isn't doing good this year
Sullivan & Loadholt was both trying to come back from major injuries. Phil retired and Sully got cut.
Smith declined greatly the last 2 years and that's why the Bengals wouldn't even sign him.
That line looks like a hot dumpster fire to me....
There are offensive rookies playing this year and some are doing a decent job.


Unfortunely there is nothing in this left tackle FA class barring unexpected cuts.

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UKno1VIKING
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by UKno1VIKING » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:22 am

halfgiz wrote: Kalil was one of the worst rated left tackles in the leauge.
Fusco was terrible at left guard, that's why they moved him back to right guard. In which he isn't doing good this year
Sullivan & Loadholt was both trying to come back from major injuries. Phil retired and Sully got cut.
Smith declined greatly the last 2 years and that's why the Bengals wouldn't even sign him.
That line looks like a hot dumpster fire to me....
There are offensive rookies playing this year and some are doing a decent job.


Unfortunely there is nothing in this left tackle FA class barring unexpected cuts.
I am aware of where these players are now. I wasn't saying they'd be world beaters. But if everything fell right with this group (no injuries etc), then they could of been serviceable.
My point is, i can see why Rick went elsewhere. They gambled that this group would of played together, and looked elsewhere to fill other gaps.
I have no doubt in my mind, that the O-line will be overhauled next off-season, as theres literally nothing left

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Re: This team is a mess

Post by Purple Martin » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:02 am

joe h wrote:Don't forget, we also brought in a qb in that ate most of our cap space, who is now useless since the rest of the team turned to crap. They cannot fix this mess if they wanted to.
Hopefully spielman is out the door. Wr was the last position requiring a first round pick last year. He has never addressed the line issues, never brought in a capable back up, or at least a prospect, which led to the awful Bradford deal, and didn't address the Walsh issue. But there is always next season.
and you think there is something else he could have done for QB other than the Bradford deal to make this season better? I'm all ears. I'm also curious who you think was an available and competent backup that would have been as good as Bradford.
Mothman wrote:... a good completion percentage in a performance like that is like putting lipstick on a pig.

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Boon
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by Boon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:14 am

I am so glad some of you aren't general managers

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chicagopurple
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by chicagopurple » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:59 am

Kalil, Fusco, Clemmings, Sully(with ruptured discs in his back) Loadholt (coming off 2 torn achilles), etc were NOT a reasonable plan. It was a fools errand. It was laziness on the part of Spielman.
Anyone who thinks Spielman has been doing an acceptable job as a GM in regards to building an OL is drunk on the kool-aid

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:18 am

Norv Zimmer wrote:
I can have a opinion on the high draft picks, especially when you see other rookie receivers having success and contributing on their teams.
Michael Thomas, Tajae Sharpe, Will Fuller, Sterling Shepard, Tyler Boyd, Corey Coleman are all having decent seasons at receiver. If these guys can contribute and Treadwell can't I have to believe that the fault is on Treadwell.

You don't have to agree with me on this, but to say I am flat out laughable and wrong for thinking this way is pretty laughable by yourself.
And you've literally ignored every time I've brought up Trae Waynes. You havent figured out this coaching staff yet? Like I said, you were probably a guy that ripped Waynes last year because he "wasn't playing so he must be a bust". And that is now what you are saying about Treadwell and even Alexander. That's probably the most illogical way of thinking I've ever seen on this board. I said the same thing last year regarding Waynes. Everyone is so worried about what everyone else is doing in the league.

Your only backing to this is, "Well everyone else is contributing and he's not so he's a bust". You've yet to address anything I've said about Waynes, the lack of OL when we picked, the reasoning behind these picks, .....nothing. So like I said, for you to say "he isn't playing so he must be a bust" is very laughable. Because it has zero backing behind it. You're comparing him to other rookies 10 games into his rookie year. No less he's been hurt for a few of them. And I will tell you why it's an illogical way of thinking..... there was a guy that proved you wrong last year that was a first rounder (assuming you were a Waynes hater based on your attitude towards the draft this year).
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: This team is a mess

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:19 am

Boon wrote:I am so glad some of you aren't general managers
lol I've said this plenty of times before. Unless they were the GM of the Packers. Then I'd be all for it
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