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 Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10 
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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Nothing like spending your Sunday watching your team crap in their pants. I cant believe I paid for an NFL Game Pass in order to watch this garbage. Every time you think our OL situation could not be worse, ........it gets worse.......First you saw the effect of a bargain basement line on back up RBs who are expected to pretend they are starters, Then you get to see the effect of this O line on a QB who is OK if decently protected, NOW we see the attrition on the ONLY high quality aspect of our team (our Defense). They have had to carry this team this year and are starting to break down......I bet Spielman is preoccupied with finding the next great QB or OC rather then facing the reality that he Needs 4-5 Offensive Linemen. Can we even call it an O Line? Its more like a High School club of guys who like to Moon Walk Backwards....


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Raptorman wrote:
Ok, I'm not all doom and gloom. Yes we lost, and yes it sucks. But at least they weren't blown out. They didn't quit when down by 14. They didn't quit at the end. So, that's two games in a row they lost in the last 5 minutes. One or two plays go another way and they are 7-2. For as bad as the O-line has been, it appeared today that at least they are addressing getting the QB more time to throw.

That being said, the o-line sucks. The only reason we are even in the running for the Division title is that our division currently sucks.

I would rather have our problems than the Packers.


I think the Packers problems are fixable save for the injuries primarily to our DBs, we cant play D when our number 4 CB is the number 1 guy, combine that with Matthews being gone (Which is our fault for building a D around a guy with a glass hamstring) and it isva losing combination.

Other then that the Offense can and does produce impressivly enough at points, but need to be consistant and stop choking in key moments.

But clearly, with the division how it is, your not out of it yet.

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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Raptorman wrote:
Ok, I'm not all doom and gloom. Yes we lost, and yes it sucks. But at least they weren't blown out. They didn't quit when down by 14. They didn't quit at the end. So, that's two games in a row they lost in the last 5 minutes. One or two plays go another way and they are 7-2. For as bad as the O-line has been, it appeared today that at least they are addressing getting the QB more time to throw.

That being said, the o-line sucks. The only reason we are even in the running for the Division title is that our division currently sucks.

I would rather have our problems than the Packers.


Set that bar any lower and you'll trip over it.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
How are you going to fix this, mike zimmer? I'm still very happy that you're the HC, but all the rah rah words in the world don't seem to be helping.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Man, I looked at the schedule when we were 5-0 and I thought we might get to 4 losses. I just didn't expect them to all occur immediately and consecutively.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
tmscr wrote:
Man, I looked at the schedule when we were 5-0 and I thought we might get to 4 losses. I just didn't expect them to all occur immediately and consecutively.


that's pretty much it.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Well we should be looking for a replacement for Jake Long but I'm sure we will be signing a defensive player this week. :whistle:

Any ideas who we could be looking at to replace Long?


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Jim Souhan:

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For the first time in Mike Zimmer's tenure, his program does not look to be on the rise. Instead, he is facing the kind of midseason collapse that ruined Mike Tice's tenure.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Mothman wrote:
Jim Souhan:

Quote:
For the first time in Mike Zimmer's tenure, his program does not look to be on the rise. Instead, he is facing the kind of midseason collapse that ruined Mike Tice's tenure.



Souhan the polemicist.

I will say, though, that in his presser today he looked really despondent. It doesn't help that one of his eyes is blood red, but he looked really astonished.

In the end, though, even with all of the extensive injuries his team has suffered, I think Zimmer will rally the troops and get at least 2-3 more wins.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Texas Vike wrote:
Souhan the polemicist.


:lol: I'm laughing because its true.

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I will say, though, that in his presser today he looked really despondent. It doesn't help that one of his eyes is blood red, but he looked really astonished.

In the end, though, even with all of the extensive injuries his team has suffered, I think Zimmer will rally the troops and get at least 2-3 more wins.


Probably. He might even rally them to more than that, although so far, he doesn't seem to have any answers when it comes to halting this losing streak. Maybe they just aren't there. Talent matters.

Personally, while I can see that the injuries the team has suffered are having a genuinely negative impact (particularly at RB and LT), I think the team may have headed to where they are now anyway. We discussed it here on the board early in the season. A team can't do anything consistently on offense with a bad line and unless they're constantly making up for that shortcoming in other areas, they can't win consistently either. Their margin for error has been slim from the start. There were articles during the winning streak saying the way the Vikes were winning was unsustainable. It turns out they were right.

Hopefully, this losing streak is equally unsustainable!


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Souhan the polemicist.


:lol: I'm laughing because its true.

Quote:
I will say, though, that in his presser today he looked really despondent. It doesn't help that one of his eyes is blood red, but he looked really astonished.

In the end, though, even with all of the extensive injuries his team has suffered, I think Zimmer will rally the troops and get at least 2-3 more wins.


Probably. He might even rally them to more than that, although so far, he doesn't seem to have any answers when it comes to halting this losing streak. Maybe they just aren't there. Talent matters.

Personally, while I can see that the injuries the team has suffered are having a genuinely negative impact (particularly at RB and LT), I think the team may have headed to where they are now anyway. We discussed it here on the board early in the season. A team can't do anything consistently on offense with a bad line and unless they're constantly making up for that shortcoming in other areas, they can't win consistently either. Their margin for error has been slim from the start. There were articles during the winning streak saying the way the Vikes were winning was unsustainable. It turns out they were right.

Hopefully, this losing streak is equally unsustainable!


They were almost there today against a pretty solid WASH team. I don't see reason for quite as much despair as this board has expressed. I mean, I get it, it's frustrating after a 5-0 start and it's just quintessential Vikings to do this to us, but I saw reasons for optimism today. When Bradford gets time to set up he finds Diggs and Rudy.... I know it's repetitive, but it's all about the line. That's true of the D too. We haven't put much pressure on opposing QBs and our D has looked mortal lately after a torrid start to the season.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Texas Vike wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Souhan the polemicist.


:lol: I'm laughing because its true.

Quote:
I will say, though, that in his presser today he looked really despondent. It doesn't help that one of his eyes is blood red, but he looked really astonished.

In the end, though, even with all of the extensive injuries his team has suffered, I think Zimmer will rally the troops and get at least 2-3 more wins.


Probably. He might even rally them to more than that, although so far, he doesn't seem to have any answers when it comes to halting this losing streak. Maybe they just aren't there. Talent matters.

Personally, while I can see that the injuries the team has suffered are having a genuinely negative impact (particularly at RB and LT), I think the team may have headed to where they are now anyway. We discussed it here on the board early in the season. A team can't do anything consistently on offense with a bad line and unless they're constantly making up for that shortcoming in other areas, they can't win consistently either. Their margin for error has been slim from the start. There were articles during the winning streak saying the way the Vikes were winning was unsustainable. It turns out they were right.

Hopefully, this losing streak is equally unsustainable!


They were almost there today against a pretty solid WASH team. I don't see reason for quite as much despair as this board has expressed. I mean, I get it, it's frustrating after a 5-0 start and it's just quintessential Vikings to do this to us, but I saw reasons for optimism today. When Bradford gets time to set up he finds Diggs and Rudy.... I know it's repetitive, but it's all about the line. That's true of the D too. We haven't put much pressure on opposing QBs and our D has looked mortal lately after a torrid start to the season.


Mortal would be putting it lightly. They looked soft and average AT BEST. The tackling was terrible and has been since the bears game. Obviously the injuries have cut in to their depth and guys are playing more snaps than they did earlier in the year. They looked gassed, partly because the offense has incredibly short drives. But Robert Kelly aka "fat rob" can't be gashing your for 5+ yards on first down runs. Overall they look tired and are clearly devoid of any of the confidence they displayed earlier. I'm really unsure of Zimmer's ability to get the mental aspect of this corrected. They've come out so flat it's very alarming.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
fiestavike wrote:
Dmizzle0 wrote:
Sam looks good when he gets momentum on offense but his pocket presence seem inferior. When he starts to hunches down when defenders arent that close to tackling them. It kind of shows that even he doesnt trust the o-line.


Yep. Bradford is proof that the minutiae of the QB position are actually of primary importance. He's not the first to prove it either. All the arm talent and "accuracy" in the world can't account for the total inability to make a play when things break down. this is the NFL and much of the time plays are going to break down. With a dud like Bradford, the season is over before it starts, especially with a weak OL like we've had the last few years.


Yeah 11 TDs and 2 INTs....real dud :roll:

What are you expecting out of him with no running game and a horrid OL??

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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
The sad thing is, I'm liking our offense a little better since Norv left. Shurmur has the right idea with the short passing game because of how bad our OL is. But now when our offense is a little better, our defense is playing worse. I don't understand whats going on with this defense all of the sudden. Now we just can't get any kind of pressure. We run the double A gap and blitz and we still can't get anyone to the QB.

As for the offense, when you have this many injuries to the OL, there isn't much else we can do. We've gotten the worst case of the injury bug I've ever seen. Every game guys are getting hurt. It's non-stop. I like what Shurmur has done for the most part outside of running Asiata. That guy is just pathetic. I don't care how bad our OL is, he needs to stop running the ball. I mean Russell Wilson isn't really doing much this year and his OL is terrible as well. And he is a mobile QB no less. I mean he went 3 straight games without even throwing a TD pass. When your line is as bad as his is and ours is, it's hard to get anything going. It's just that Seattle's defense has continued to hold up. Ours has not.

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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Texas Vike wrote:

They were almost there today against a pretty solid WASH team. I don't see reason for quite as much despair as this board has expressed. I mean, I get it, it's frustrating after a 5-0 start and it's just quintessential Vikings to do this to us, but I saw reasons for optimism today. When Bradford gets time to set up he finds Diggs and Rudy.... I know it's repetitive, but it's all about the line. That's true of the D too. We haven't put much pressure on opposing QBs and our D has looked mortal lately after a torrid start to the season.


I agree with what your saying, and I think Shurmur and the offense are still getting to know each other.
But now I think we will be having an offensive line shuttle which could slow us down some.
I figure probably Austin Shepherd will get moved to the 53 man rooster.
Shepherd is a mystery to me. He played in 14 games last year only to be one of our first cuts. I'm hoping he gets to see some playing time.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Dmizzle0 wrote:
Sam looks good when he gets momentum on offense but his pocket presence seem inferior. When he starts to hunches down when defenders arent that close to tackling them. It kind of shows that even he doesnt trust the o-line.


Yep. Bradford is proof that the minutiae of the QB position are actually of primary importance. He's not the first to prove it either. All the arm talent and "accuracy" in the world can't account for the total inability to make a play when things break down. this is the NFL and much of the time plays are going to break down. With a dud like Bradford, the season is over before it starts, especially with a weak OL like we've had the last few years.


Yeah 11 TDs and 2 INTs....real dud :roll:

What are you expecting out of him with no running game and a horrid OL??


Yep, Sam has done as much as he can with what he's been given. His biggest negative is a lack of mobility which we all knew about coming in. The continued inability to convert high percentage short yardage situations says all you need to know about our running game. The only reason we've been in these past two games is because of what Sam has been able to do. Factor in the unknown with teddys future and it was still a good move to get him.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
tmscr wrote:

Mortal would be putting it lightly. They looked soft and average AT BEST. The tackling was terrible and has been since the bears game. Obviously the injuries have cut in to their depth and guys are playing more snaps than they did earlier in the year. They looked gassed, partly because the offense has incredibly short drives. But Robert Kelly aka "fat rob" can't be gashing your for 5+ yards on first down runs. Overall they look tired and are clearly devoid of any of the confidence they displayed earlier. I'm really unsure of Zimmer's ability to get the mental aspect of this corrected. They've come out so flat it's very alarming.


I agree that they've lost their confidence. They seemed to intimidate foes earlier in the year; no longer. They went from elite to mediocre and it's certainly a concern.

Something I noticed is that they seemed to play less press-man coverage today. There were times when WA receivers sat down in huge pockets and they just picked us apart. Looked like the Vikings of old--the swiss cheese days. Our run D was suspect today too. It didn't help to lose Kendricks--he is a key player for our D and Audie Cole only scares the doves of Mexico; he usually just looks lost.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
The sad thing is, I'm liking our offense a little better since Norv left. Shurmur has the right idea with the short passing game because of how bad our OL is. But now when our offense is a little better, our defense is playing worse. I don't understand whats going on with this defense all of the sudden. Now we just can't get any kind of pressure. We run the double A gap and blitz and we still can't get anyone to the QB.

As for the offense, when you have this many injuries to the OL, there isn't much else we can do. We've gotten the worst case of the injury bug I've ever seen. Every game guys are getting hurt. It's non-stop. I like what Shurmur has done for the most part outside of running Asiata. That guy is just pathetic. I don't care how bad our OL is, he needs to stop running the ball. I mean Russell Wilson isn't really doing much this year and his OL is terrible as well. And he is a mobile QB no less. I mean he went 3 straight games without even throwing a TD pass. When your line is as bad as his is and ours is, it's hard to get anything going. It's just that Seattle's defense has continued to hold up. Ours has not.


One of the guys on the post game radio shows said part of the problem with the defense has been the inability to change personnel due to the injuries to the DL and LBs. Earlier in the year they were switching out guys and were able to keep them fresh to continue the strong pass rush. Now that's been difficult to do with the various injuries and the same guys are playing more snaps. I know the injury excuse is verboten, but there is a point where it's too much to overcome,


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Texas Vike wrote:
tmscr wrote:

Mortal would be putting it lightly. They looked soft and average AT BEST. The tackling was terrible and has been since the bears game. Obviously the injuries have cut in to their depth and guys are playing more snaps than they did earlier in the year. They looked gassed, partly because the offense has incredibly short drives. But Robert Kelly aka "fat rob" can't be gashing your for 5+ yards on first down runs. Overall they look tired and are clearly devoid of any of the confidence they displayed earlier. I'm really unsure of Zimmer's ability to get the mental aspect of this corrected. They've come out so flat it's very alarming.


I agree that they've lost their confidence. They seemed to intimidate foes earlier in the year; no longer. They went from elite to mediocre and it's certainly a concern.

Something I noticed is that they seemed to play less press-man coverage today. There were times when WA receivers sat down in huge pockets and they just picked us apart. Looked like the Vikings of old--the swiss cheese days. Our run D was suspect today too. It didn't help to lose Kendricks--he is a key player for our D and Audie Cole only scares the doves of Mexico; he usually just looks lost.


The consistent inability to get off the field on third downs has been killing them. It obviously adds to the TOP the defense has to defend but it's dang demoralizing to continue to allow 3rd down conversions.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
tmscr wrote:
there is a point where it's too much to overcome,


And I think that is where we currently lie right now

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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
tmscr wrote:
there is a point where it's too much to overcome,


And I think that is where we currently lie right now


Yep, even a guy like sherels. I think he was second in the league in return average before he was injured. You put in diggs to return punts, who is a playmaker, but he's done very little there. The worst part of the injuries is that they all seem to be long term. Teddy, Khalil, AP, Floyd. Three and a half games played between em. Boone, smith the same. Linval, kendricks, sherels. Several more games missed. Just amazing.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
tmscr wrote:
there is a point where it's too much to overcome,


And I think that is where we currently lie right now


I think it was actually 4 weeks ago.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Texas Vike wrote:
They were almost there today against a pretty solid WASH team. I don't see reason for quite as much despair as this board has expressed. I mean, I get it, it's frustrating after a 5-0 start and it's just quintessential Vikings to do this to us, but I saw reasons for optimism today. When Bradford gets time to set up he finds Diggs and Rudy.... I know it's repetitive, but it's all about the line. That's true of the D too. We haven't put much pressure on opposing QBs and our D has looked mortal lately after a torrid start to the season.


But Bradford doesn't get time. That's the point. The offensive success is predicated on the OL blocking, which it just doesn't do for four quarters a game (if even one full quarter). The OL isn't going to get fixed this season and every NFL team out there knows it's the Vikings glaring weakness.

As for the defense, it absolutely must whip itself back into the unit it was before the losing streak. Even if it does, the Vikings will still be half a team - again. We've seen that dynamic too many times.

Sorry to be so blasted negative but it's truthfully how I'm feeling right now.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
The sad thing is, I'm liking our offense a little better since Norv left. Shurmur has the right idea with the short passing game because of how bad our OL is. But now when our offense is a little better, our defense is playing worse. I don't understand whats going on with this defense all of the sudden. Now we just can't get any kind of pressure. We run the double A gap and blitz and we still can't get anyone to the QB.

As for the offense, when you have this many injuries to the OL, there isn't much else we can do. We've gotten the worst case of the injury bug I've ever seen. Every game guys are getting hurt. It's non-stop. I like what Shurmur has done for the most part outside of running Asiata. That guy is just pathetic. I don't care how bad our OL is, he needs to stop running the ball. I mean Russell Wilson isn't really doing much this year and his OL is terrible as well. And he is a mobile QB no less. I mean he went 3 straight games without even throwing a TD pass. When your line is as bad as his is and ours is, it's hard to get anything going. It's just that Seattle's defense has continued to hold up. Ours has not.


The defense has struggled containing TE's the last 3 weeks. Part of this is likely due to the loss of Kendricks but also teams have likely found a chink in the armor. Hopefully it can be corrected. What's really odd is the tackling, the team was excellent at this earlier in the year and it has noticeably dropped off. Barr in particular looks rather bad and I'm wondering if he isn't 100%. As for the pass rush, teams are getting the ball out a lot quicker so that has some to do with the lack of pressure.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
the defense is breaking down because they are over used. The horrid OL means NO running game. THe passing game is iffy in no part due to our QB but rather a non existent OL....You can only expect the Defense to carry so much of a load. We will spend the rest of the season looking at break downs and failures in every aspect of the team from coaches to kickers but nothing will really improve until we have a professional grade OL.


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
All things considered, I think the defense held up pretty well. After all, playing for 12 minutes in the 3rd quarter didn't help. The offense needs to help by at least moving the damn ball and giving them a rest longer than 2 minutes.

FWIW, and probably not much, but the defense did hole the Skins to only Field goals after the 1st quarter.

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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
Raptorman wrote:
All things considered, I think the defense held up pretty well. After all, playing for 12 minutes in the 3rd quarter didn't help. The offense needs to help by at least moving the damn ball and giving them a rest longer than 2 minutes.

FWIW, and probably not much, but the defense did hole the Skins to only Field goals after the 1st quarter.


Time of possession was almost even.
30:04 to Redskins 29:56


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Post Re: Vikings @ Redskins Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 10
losperros wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
They were almost there today against a pretty solid WASH team. I don't see reason for quite as much despair as this board has expressed. I mean, I get it, it's frustrating after a 5-0 start and it's just quintessential Vikings to do this to us, but I saw reasons for optimism today. When Bradford gets time to set up he finds Diggs and Rudy.... I know it's repetitive, but it's all about the line. That's true of the D too. We haven't put much pressure on opposing QBs and our D has looked mortal lately after a torrid start to the season.


But Bradford doesn't get time. That's the point.


Where do you see that I've missed that point?

You quoted me, but I've been saying that very thing ad nauseam for what seems like eternity. I've underlined it in my post that you quoted.

I'm confused by your post. :confused:


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