Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by Vike Fan 4 Life » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:22 pm

I think Walsh kicked himself out of a job and deserves a large amount of blame, but I don't feel like Zimmer is getting enough criticism for his clock management. There was absolutely no reason to call a timeout with 27 seconds left, they had 0 timeouts. We could've ran it down to 15 seconds and still had a timeout left with 3rd and goal. A high school coach could've figured that out.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by The-Purple-Reign » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:23 pm

mondry wrote:The facts say Blair leads the league with 3 XP misses and given how few touchdowns we actually score (and thus XP's) it's even more disturbing. This team has a couple things going for it and a couple things going horribly against it. They are far from a perfect team and that means they will be in a lot of these lower scoring / grind it out games so every xp and fg is even more crucial.

The team lost today, but Blair was one of the biggest factors in that loss.
I agree...........
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by Norv Zimmer » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:23 pm

S197 wrote:Zimmers presser takeaways. On Walsh, today is not a day for evaluations. Liked the fight in the team more this week than the last two, just failed to get the job done. Took the blame for rushing 3 at the end of the game. Treadwell needs more plays.
Zimmer needs to take.the blame. Terrible coaching at the end of the game.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm

Mothman wrote: I doubt it. I think this team has more character than that. I think most of those coaches and players would be more inclined to ask what they could have done to help the team get the win rather than blaming the kicker for a tough loss. I certainly hope that's true because if not, Laserman might be right that they're headed for 5-11.
Jim, I would submit that "we lose as a team" is the sort of thing that you say in public. But I'm talking about how they feel privately.

If I'm Xavier Rhodes, trying to cover Golden Tate all game, tackling big dudes like Eric Ebron and Duane Washington, coming off the field with injuries then going back out there, I'm kinda pissed that my kicker missed yet another extra point. Or didn't keep the ball out of the end zone on the last kickoff in regulation.

And it would be one thing if Walsh were really reliable and just missed this one time. But this just keeps happening ... it's been happening fairly consistently since his rookie year ended. You'll never convince me the guys aren't getting tired of it. I mean, if every possession is precious, what is every POINT?
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by S197 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm

Norv Zimmer wrote: Zimmer needs to take.the blame. Terrible coaching at the end of the game.
He did.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:27 pm

Vike Fan 4 Life wrote:I think Walsh kicked himself out of a job and deserves a large amount of blame, but I don't feel like Zimmer is getting enough criticism for his clock management. There was absolutely no reason to call a timeout with 27 seconds left, they had 0 timeouts. We could've ran it down to 15 seconds and still had a timeout left with 3rd and goal. A high school coach could've figured that out.
As much as I like Mike Zimmer, I have to admit ... this is a great point.

The Vikings were in a do-or-die situation. Score a touchdown, and we go ahead. Don't score a touchdown, and we lose. Why leave time on the clock -- especially for Matthew Stafford?

Zimm mismanaged the last minute.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by halfgiz » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:28 pm

Offense looked improved today they moved the ball. This was Shurmur's first game and he didn't do bad.
I liked Hillman today!
Treadwell got his first catch

Everyone said Walsh was going to cost us a game and today was the day.

On D the touchdowns before halftime and in overtime was costly. Not one of the D's better days. Scratching my head on the Zimmers playcalling.

I had good game day food at least. "Check the gameday food thread"
Last edited by halfgiz on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by Purple Reign » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:29 pm

TSonn wrote: Good point there. Forgot about that one. So basically he was 2/5 on plays that are all on him today that most other kickers would get 5/5.
So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by Mothman » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:31 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Jim, I would submit that "we lose as a team" is the sort of thing that you say in public. But I'm talking about how they feel privately.

If I'm Xavier Rhodes, trying to cover Golden Tate all game, tackling big dudes like Eric Ebron and Duane Washington, coming off the field with injuries then going back out there, I'm kinda pissed that my kicker missed yet another extra point. Or didn't keep the ball out of the end zone on the last kickoff in regulation.

And it would be one thing if Walsh were really reliable and just missed this one time. But this just keeps happening ... it's been happening fairly consistently since his rookie year ended. You'll never convince me the guys aren't getting tired of it. I mean, if every possession is precious, what is every POINT?
I'm not trying to convince you they're not tired of it.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by TSonn » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:32 pm

Purple Reign wrote: So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.
It was mentioned in the broadcast that Walsh was told to kick it short of the endzone.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by Vike Fan 4 Life » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:34 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: As much as I like Mike Zimmer, I have to admit ... this is a great point.

The Vikings were in a do-or-die situation. Score a touchdown, and we go ahead. Don't score a touchdown, and we lose. Why leave time on the clock -- especially for Matthew Stafford?

Zimm mismanaged the last minute.
Stafford has done it all year since the first game of the season against the Colts, their late game offense is efficient as there is in football. Complete oversight on his part. Great coach, but I still feel like his clock management ability leaves a lot to be desired.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by The Breeze » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:40 pm

walsh is walshed up IMO....but to need the leverage of an extra point to beat the lions at home a week after being dismantled by the 1-6 bears is far more alarming than anything walsh has or hasn't done.

you guys are going on for pages about a missed extra point costing them a home game against the lions. really? like winning this game by 1 point would have absolved all the other blatant shortcomings within it?

walsh is an issue...but they have plenty of em.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:40 pm

Mothman wrote: So long...

Edit: On second thought, I will address your insulting question.

I'm not acting like people who don't share my opinion are idiots and I didn't say any such thing about anybody here. However, I'm not going to mince words about the obvious either. This post-game determination to make Walsh the scapegoat for the loss is no different than the kind of BS I used to see here years ago when people would blame a bad snap on the QB instead of the center who actually snapped it or call a pass 3 feet over a receiver's head accurate.

Opinions aren't facts. Opinions can be logical or illogical and when they're illogical, I find that both problematic and frustrating.
You're using laugh emojis. You're calling those of us who are mad at Walsh "people who need to find a scapegoat." That's pretty condescending, my friend.

Nobody said "Walsh lost the game" is a fact. I know what a fact is, and I know what an opinion is. People have given their opinions on Walsh, and they backed them up with facts. You don't have to agree. But you also don't have to act like we're all immature children, while you're somehow the sage adult.

For the record, as I've stated earlier, Zimmer also shares blame for the loss with his faulty clock management on the Vikings' last TD drive. Why call a time out with so much time left? The Vikings had two plays to score. Make the TD, and they take the lead. Don't make the TD, and they lose. There was no reason to conserve time. Take the clock down to a point where you have enough time for two plays.

Some of us are simply saying that if Blair Walsh does his one job, which is to make kicks, a lot of this discussion could be moot. And I refuse to assign a lion's share of the blame to defensive players who, for the most part, played an excellent game. Who are required to chase receivers all over the field, and tackle big tight ends, and rush the passer down after down. Players who who will barely be able to walk until sometime on Tuesday. I find it difficult to assign more blame to guys like that than to a kicker who does one thing all week, on the safety and comfort of a side field.

If that makes me a person who needs a scapegoat and is thus worthy of being laughed at, then I guess I plead guilty.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by Purple Reign » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
An extra point has no bearing on field position, play calling, etc. You can sit there all day and say, "well if Asiata got the first down we would've scored". You don't know that. Nobody knows what could've happened if he got it. Or if we didn't get penalties after the INT.

However, if the idiot makes the extra point, the only thing that could've beat us was a Hail Mary. Which are completed how often?? The guy is a bum. And should be singled out. He's a damn NFL kicker and leads the league in missed XP. That's pathetic. He was bound to cost us the game this year, and if he's still on the roster as of tomorrow, he'll cost us more. No less we have a stubborn a$$ coach that continues to give him more chances. What are we waiting for?!!! For him to maybe cost us a couple more with his pi$$ poor kicking. That's exactly what he did today
Have to disagree that the extra point has no bearing on play calling, you can't know that. Maybe different plays are called base on whether you are tied or behind by a point. Different plays, different results, different outcome - you just can't say everything else would have been the same if he had made it.
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Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:45 pm

Purple Reign wrote: So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.
Here's how I would back it up.

1. A touchback does the team no good. It puts the ball on the 25 without using any time off the clock.
2. Walsh took ONE STEP, then kicked.
3. He popped it up -- only he popped it into the end zone.
4. The Vikings have one of the best coverage teams in the league, and the Lions hadn't returned a kickoff past the 25 yard line all game. While a TD on a return is always a concern, I'm fairly sure Mike Priefer wasn't fearful of a long return.

Now, I wasn't in the huddle, and I'm no expert. But given the evidence I've outlined, and since Moose Johnston (likely an expert) ALSO said that's probably what was supposed to happen, I'll stick with my speculation.
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