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 Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9 
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
I think Walsh kicked himself out of a job and deserves a large amount of blame, but I don't feel like Zimmer is getting enough criticism for his clock management. There was absolutely no reason to call a timeout with 27 seconds left, they had 0 timeouts. We could've ran it down to 15 seconds and still had a timeout left with 3rd and goal. A high school coach could've figured that out.

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
mondry wrote:
The facts say Blair leads the league with 3 XP misses and given how few touchdowns we actually score (and thus XP's) it's even more disturbing. This team has a couple things going for it and a couple things going horribly against it. They are far from a perfect team and that means they will be in a lot of these lower scoring / grind it out games so every xp and fg is even more crucial.

The team lost today, but Blair was one of the biggest factors in that loss.


I agree...........


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
S197 wrote:
Zimmers presser takeaways. On Walsh, today is not a day for evaluations. Liked the fight in the team more this week than the last two, just failed to get the job done. Took the blame for rushing 3 at the end of the game. Treadwell needs more plays.


Zimmer needs to take.the blame. Terrible coaching at the end of the game.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Mothman wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Interesting. You say that, and I'm sure Mike Zimmer will say that. But I guarantee you, the players in that locker room, especially the guys on defense who were out there for 60-80 snaps and only allowed 236 total yards in regulation, would like to take turns punching Blair Walsh. Mike Zimmer, if you give him truth serum, would like to be first in line, with Mike Priefer right behind him.


I doubt it. I think this team has more character than that. I think most of those coaches and players would be more inclined to ask what they could have done to help the team get the win rather than blaming the kicker for a tough loss. I certainly hope that's true because if not, Laserman might be right that they're headed for 5-11.

Jim, I would submit that "we lose as a team" is the sort of thing that you say in public. But I'm talking about how they feel privately.

If I'm Xavier Rhodes, trying to cover Golden Tate all game, tackling big dudes like Eric Ebron and Duane Washington, coming off the field with injuries then going back out there, I'm kinda pissed that my kicker missed yet another extra point. Or didn't keep the ball out of the end zone on the last kickoff in regulation.

And it would be one thing if Walsh were really reliable and just missed this one time. But this just keeps happening ... it's been happening fairly consistently since his rookie year ended. You'll never convince me the guys aren't getting tired of it. I mean, if every possession is precious, what is every POINT?

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Norv Zimmer wrote:
S197 wrote:
Zimmers presser takeaways. On Walsh, today is not a day for evaluations. Liked the fight in the team more this week than the last two, just failed to get the job done. Took the blame for rushing 3 at the end of the game. Treadwell needs more plays.


Zimmer needs to take.the blame. Terrible coaching at the end of the game.


He did.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Vike Fan 4 Life wrote:
I think Walsh kicked himself out of a job and deserves a large amount of blame, but I don't feel like Zimmer is getting enough criticism for his clock management. There was absolutely no reason to call a timeout with 27 seconds left, they had 0 timeouts. We could've ran it down to 15 seconds and still had a timeout left with 3rd and goal. A high school coach could've figured that out.

As much as I like Mike Zimmer, I have to admit ... this is a great point.

The Vikings were in a do-or-die situation. Score a touchdown, and we go ahead. Don't score a touchdown, and we lose. Why leave time on the clock -- especially for Matthew Stafford?

Zimm mismanaged the last minute.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Offense looked improved today they moved the ball. This was Shurmur's first game and he didn't do bad.
I liked Hillman today!
Treadwell got his first catch

Everyone said Walsh was going to cost us a game and today was the day.

On D the touchdowns before halftime and in overtime was costly. Not one of the D's better days. Scratching my head on the Zimmers playcalling.

I had good game day food at least. "Check the gameday food thread"


Last edited by halfgiz on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:28 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
TSonn wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Then, to top off his stellar day, he FAILED to execute the kickoff with 23 seconds left. He was supposed to keep it short of the end zone so that time would have run off the clock. That's three plays he biffed.

Blair Walsh failed at his job today, and it cost the Vikings the game.


Good point there. Forgot about that one. So basically he was 2/5 on plays that are all on him today that most other kickers would get 5/5.


So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Jim, I would submit that "we lose as a team" is the sort of thing that you say in public. But I'm talking about how they feel privately.

If I'm Xavier Rhodes, trying to cover Golden Tate all game, tackling big dudes like Eric Ebron and Duane Washington, coming off the field with injuries then going back out there, I'm kinda pissed that my kicker missed yet another extra point. Or didn't keep the ball out of the end zone on the last kickoff in regulation.

And it would be one thing if Walsh were really reliable and just missed this one time. But this just keeps happening ... it's been happening fairly consistently since his rookie year ended. You'll never convince me the guys aren't getting tired of it. I mean, if every possession is precious, what is every POINT?


I'm not trying to convince you they're not tired of it.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:31 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Purple Reign wrote:
TSonn wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Then, to top off his stellar day, he FAILED to execute the kickoff with 23 seconds left. He was supposed to keep it short of the end zone so that time would have run off the clock. That's three plays he biffed.

Blair Walsh failed at his job today, and it cost the Vikings the game.


Good point there. Forgot about that one. So basically he was 2/5 on plays that are all on him today that most other kickers would get 5/5.


So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.


It was mentioned in the broadcast that Walsh was told to kick it short of the endzone.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Vike Fan 4 Life wrote:
I think Walsh kicked himself out of a job and deserves a large amount of blame, but I don't feel like Zimmer is getting enough criticism for his clock management. There was absolutely no reason to call a timeout with 27 seconds left, they had 0 timeouts. We could've ran it down to 15 seconds and still had a timeout left with 3rd and goal. A high school coach could've figured that out.

As much as I like Mike Zimmer, I have to admit ... this is a great point.

The Vikings were in a do-or-die situation. Score a touchdown, and we go ahead. Don't score a touchdown, and we lose. Why leave time on the clock -- especially for Matthew Stafford?

Zimm mismanaged the last minute.


Stafford has done it all year since the first game of the season against the Colts, their late game offense is efficient as there is in football. Complete oversight on his part. Great coach, but I still feel like his clock management ability leaves a lot to be desired.

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:34 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
walsh is walshed up IMO....but to need the leverage of an extra point to beat the lions at home a week after being dismantled by the 1-6 bears is far more alarming than anything walsh has or hasn't done.

you guys are going on for pages about a missed extra point costing them a home game against the lions. really? like winning this game by 1 point would have absolved all the other blatant shortcomings within it?

walsh is an issue...but they have plenty of em.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:40 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Mothman wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Why do you have to act like everybody who has a different opinion than you is somehow an idiot?


So long...

Edit: On second thought, I will address your insulting question.

I'm not acting like people who don't share my opinion are idiots and I didn't say any such thing about anybody here. However, I'm not going to mince words about the obvious either. This post-game determination to make Walsh the scapegoat for the loss is no different than the kind of BS I used to see here years ago when people would blame a bad snap on the QB instead of the center who actually snapped it or call a pass 3 feet over a receiver's head accurate.

Opinions aren't facts. Opinions can be logical or illogical and when they're illogical, I find that both problematic and frustrating.

You're using laugh emojis. You're calling those of us who are mad at Walsh "people who need to find a scapegoat." That's pretty condescending, my friend.

Nobody said "Walsh lost the game" is a fact. I know what a fact is, and I know what an opinion is. People have given their opinions on Walsh, and they backed them up with facts. You don't have to agree. But you also don't have to act like we're all immature children, while you're somehow the sage adult.

For the record, as I've stated earlier, Zimmer also shares blame for the loss with his faulty clock management on the Vikings' last TD drive. Why call a time out with so much time left? The Vikings had two plays to score. Make the TD, and they take the lead. Don't make the TD, and they lose. There was no reason to conserve time. Take the clock down to a point where you have enough time for two plays.

Some of us are simply saying that if Blair Walsh does his one job, which is to make kicks, a lot of this discussion could be moot. And I refuse to assign a lion's share of the blame to defensive players who, for the most part, played an excellent game. Who are required to chase receivers all over the field, and tackle big tight ends, and rush the passer down after down. Players who who will barely be able to walk until sometime on Tuesday. I find it difficult to assign more blame to guys like that than to a kicker who does one thing all week, on the safety and comfort of a side field.

If that makes me a person who needs a scapegoat and is thus worthy of being laughed at, then I guess I plead guilty.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

An extra point has no bearing on field position, play calling, etc. You can sit there all day and say, "well if Asiata got the first down we would've scored". You don't know that. Nobody knows what could've happened if he got it. Or if we didn't get penalties after the INT.

However, if the idiot makes the extra point, the only thing that could've beat us was a Hail Mary. Which are completed how often?? The guy is a bum. And should be singled out. He's a damn NFL kicker and leads the league in missed XP. That's pathetic. He was bound to cost us the game this year, and if he's still on the roster as of tomorrow, he'll cost us more. No less we have a stubborn a$$ coach that continues to give him more chances. What are we waiting for?!!! For him to maybe cost us a couple more with his pi$$ poor kicking. That's exactly what he did today


Have to disagree that the extra point has no bearing on play calling, you can't know that. Maybe different plays are called base on whether you are tied or behind by a point. Different plays, different results, different outcome - you just can't say everything else would have been the same if he had made it.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:43 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Purple Reign wrote:
TSonn wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Then, to top off his stellar day, he FAILED to execute the kickoff with 23 seconds left. He was supposed to keep it short of the end zone so that time would have run off the clock. That's three plays he biffed.

Blair Walsh failed at his job today, and it cost the Vikings the game.


Good point there. Forgot about that one. So basically he was 2/5 on plays that are all on him today that most other kickers would get 5/5.


So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.

Here's how I would back it up.

1. A touchback does the team no good. It puts the ball on the 25 without using any time off the clock.
2. Walsh took ONE STEP, then kicked.
3. He popped it up -- only he popped it into the end zone.
4. The Vikings have one of the best coverage teams in the league, and the Lions hadn't returned a kickoff past the 25 yard line all game. While a TD on a return is always a concern, I'm fairly sure Mike Priefer wasn't fearful of a long return.

Now, I wasn't in the huddle, and I'm no expert. But given the evidence I've outlined, and since Moose Johnston (likely an expert) ALSO said that's probably what was supposed to happen, I'll stick with my speculation.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:49 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
TSonn wrote:
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.



eh, it's somethin


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
TSonn wrote:
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.

Well, would they? Thats a complicated tie breaker scenario because the Packers, Vikings, and Lions seem to be rock paper scissor so far.

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
TSonn wrote:
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.


Waiy wait wait... two TD's and TWO xpoints ;)


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:55 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
The-Purple-Reign wrote:
TSonn wrote:
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.


Waiy wait wait... two TD's and TWO xpoints ;)


Oh, right! Actually Crosby missed a short field goal in this game.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
TSonn wrote:
The-Purple-Reign wrote:
TSonn wrote:
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.


Waiy wait wait... two TD's and TWO xpoints ;)


Oh, right! Actually Crosby missed a short field goal in this game.


48 yards, make able, but not short, imo.

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:56 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Jordysghost wrote:
TSonn wrote:
The-Purple-Reign wrote:

Waiy wait wait... two TD's and TWO xpoints ;)


Oh, right! Actually Crosby missed a short field goal in this game.


48 yards, make able, but not short, imo.


Ah - thanks for the correction. I turned it on mid kick so I didn't see the yardage. It just looked short.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Jordysghost wrote:
TSonn wrote:
Hey at least the Packers are losing by 2 TDs in Green Bay! Lions might be on top of the division by the end of the day.

Well, would they? Thats a complicated tie breaker scenario because the Packers, Vikings, and Lions seem to be rock paper scissor so far.

I think the Vikings would still be in first if the Packers were to lose.

Detroit has four losses to the Vikings' three. So technically they'd be a half game back. But like you said, rock-paper-scissors in real life.

Vikings have to start winning again, or it really doesn't matter.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Blocked FG

Missed XP

THREE red-zone offensive penalties

Dropped TD

Stopped on downs AGAIN on fourth and 3 inches!!!

1st and ten from the plus 18 and you punt!

3 point lead AT HOME with :23 seconds left!!!

KO to START OT and hold them to their 12 yard line AND YOU CANNOT GET THE BALL BACK FOR YOUR OFFENSE!!!



...folks that laundry list of futility is not one good teams have, especially at home.

Sad..


Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:01 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
RFIP wrote:
Blocked FG

Missed XP

THREE red-zone offensive penalties

Dropped TD

Stopped on downs AGAIN on fourth and 3 inches!!!

1st and ten from the plus 18 and you punt!

3 point lead AT HOME with :23 seconds left!!!

KO to START OT and hold them to their 12 yard line AND YOU CANNOT GET THE BALL BACK FOR YOUR OFFENSE!!!



...folks that laundry list of futility is not one good teams have, especially at home.

Sad..

Can't argue those points, man.

And now I want to throw up again.

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
RFIP wrote:
Blocked FG

Missed XP

THREE red-zone offensive penalties

Dropped TD

Stopped on downs AGAIN on fourth and 3 inches!!!

1st and ten from the plus 18 and you punt!

3 point lead AT HOME with :23 seconds left!!!

KO to START OT and hold them to their 12 yard line AND YOU CANNOT GET THE BALL BACK FOR YOUR OFFENSE!!!



...folks that laundry list of futility is not one good teams have, especially at home.

Sad..


just about the perfect summary.


Last edited by halfgiz on Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:16 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
yeah i didnt watch the last two screw ups and i probably wont watch this one either.
I quess 1992 to 2015 was enough for me...its not just the vikings though godell brought
political correctness into one of the last man things in this world. I don't want pink and political
correctness in my football and the players being so ignorant .... sticking with walsh, kalil and
and leaving the offensive Line as a complete mess ...we won't ever win a championship with
mistakes like those....

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:21 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
RFIP wrote:
Blocked FG

Missed XP

THREE red-zone offensive penalties

Dropped TD

Stopped on downs AGAIN on fourth and 3 inches!!!

1st and ten from the plus 18 and you punt!

3 point lead AT HOME with :23 seconds left!!!

KO to START OT and hold them to their 12 yard line AND YOU CANNOT GET THE BALL BACK FOR YOUR OFFENSE!!!



...folks that laundry list of futility is not one good teams have, especially at home.

Sad..


Agree with all the points except the dropped td. They still got the td on that drive so it didn't hurt them, in fact it probably helped them to run more time off the clock, although eventually it didn't make any difference.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
You're using laugh emojis. You're calling those of us who are mad at Walsh "people who need to find a scapegoat." That's pretty condescending, my friend.


I'll concede that the laugh emoji was unnecessary.

I wasn't trying to be condescending when I referred to people determinedly making one player the scapegoat for the loss as people demonstrating a clear desire to find a scapegoat. I thought I was simply stating the obvious. I certainly wasn't calling anybody an idiot. You put those words in my mouth.

Quote:
Some of us are simply saying that if Blair Walsh does his one job, which is to make kicks, a lot of this discussion could be moot. And I refuse to assign a lion's share of the blame to defensive players who, for the most part, played an excellent game. Who are required to chase receivers all over the field, and tackle big tight ends, and rush the passer down after down. Players who who will barely be able to walk until sometime on Tuesday. I find it difficult to assign more blame to guys like that than to a kicker who does one thing all week, on the safety and comfort of a side field.

If that makes me a person who needs a scapegoat and is thus worthy of being laughed at, then I guess I plead guilty.


That sounds more like sarcasm than an admission of "guilt" but I'll take it. :)

I don't think it's asking too much to ask people to acknowledge the rather obvious reality that a single one-point play didn't cost the Vikings a 60+ minute game in which the final score was 22-16. If it is, then perhaps I just don't understand what it is we're doing on this board.

I could go on but I have a feeling I'm fighting a losing battle here.

Have a nice evening.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:26 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Packers look pretty bad against possibly the worst defense in the league.


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