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 Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9 
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
joe h wrote:
As much love as priefer gets, he forced the team to cut an average punter, and replace him with the worst punter in 40 years. When was the last time the Vikings had problems with a weak legged punter? And somehow this punter cannot even hold a damn ball right, since our once nearly rookie of the year kicker, cannot even make a damn extra point 10% of the time.


Really? So you are blaming Walsh's problems on Locke? If it really was an issue with Locke not holding the ball the way Walsh wants it, I'm sure they would have made a change by now. BTW - how do you know he isn't holding the ball right? Just because the ball is tilted a little doesn't mean it's wrong. It is how a lot of kickers prefer it and I would bet Walsh wants it that way.


Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Purple Reign wrote:
joe h wrote:
As much love as priefer gets, he forced the team to cut an average punter, and replace him with the worst punter in 40 years. When was the last time the Vikings had problems with a weak legged punter? And somehow this punter cannot even hold a damn ball right, since our once nearly rookie of the year kicker, cannot even make a damn extra point 10% of the time.


Really? So you are blaming Walsh's problems on Locke? If it really was an issue with Locke not holding the ball the way Walsh wants it, I'm sure they would have made a change by now. BTW - how do you know he isn't holding the ball right? Just because the ball is tilted a little doesn't mean it's wrong. It is how a lot of kickers prefer it and I would bet Walsh wants it that way.


I don't know what happened yesterday, since I was there and haven't watched the replay. I just know in the past he is slow getting the ball down, and then screws up positioning it right. I can only imagine after three years of not knowing if the ball is going to be in the right place, has pretty much shredded what little confidence Walsh once had. Either way, the bum is lucky to get 40 yards out of his punts, and has no business on the Vikings or anyone else's roster, and priefer pride is only reason he's still here.


Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:29 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Purple Reign wrote:
Meh - makes for a good story but that's about it.


That's why I shared it. :) It's interesting to read about nuances of the game that we sometimes miss during the broadcast. Whether it actually impacted the outcome or not, it certainly could have made a difference and I think it's interesting that Caldwell was paying attention, made sure to get the two seconds back for his team and they used them. That's good in-game coaching. The Lions were clearly well-prepared to handle that end-of-game situation too.


Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:31 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Purple Reign wrote:
joe h wrote:
As much love as priefer gets, he forced the team to cut an average punter, and replace him with the worst punter in 40 years. When was the last time the Vikings had problems with a weak legged punter? And somehow this punter cannot even hold a damn ball right, since our once nearly rookie of the year kicker, cannot even make a damn extra point 10% of the time.


Really? So you are blaming Walsh's problems on Locke? If it really was an issue with Locke not holding the ball the way Walsh wants it, I'm sure they would have made a change by now. BTW - how do you know he isn't holding the ball right? Just because the ball is tilted a little doesn't mean it's wrong. It is how a lot of kickers prefer it and I would bet Walsh wants it that way.

OK, so there's no way to know if Locke is contributing to the problem. But a lot of things have to go right for a field goal or extra point to work.

The long snapper actually has to spin the ball at a rate that the holder doesn't have to turn the laces away from the kicker. Did you know that? I didn't until I read an interview with an NFL long snapper (for the life of me, I can't find the interview). They practice that stuff. A lot.

The holder then has to get it down quickly -- there isn't time to lallygag -- and set it at the exact angle the kicker needs. Yes, all kickers want it at a tilt ... the angle is important, and it's different for every kicker. Get it wrong, and the kicker could easily miss.

So with all that going on, there could be a hundred reasons Walsh is missing kicks. It's impossible to know exactly why. I was super pissed at him yesterday, as were about a million other Vikings fans.

But here's a truth that may or may not mean anything: His holder during his rookie season was Chris Kluwe. Walsh was a Pro Bowler. The Vikings then released Kluwe and drafted Locke. Walsh's miss rate immediately went up and has stayed up.

Cause-and-effect? No idea. Not nearly enough evidence to support that. But it sure makes a person wonder. I wish somebody would interview Chris Kluwe about it. Even if every word he said was self-congratulatory B.S., it would at least be entertaining!

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Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
But here's a truth that may or may not mean anything: His holder during his rookie season was Chris Kluwe. Walsh was a Pro Bowler. The Vikings then released Kluwe and drafted Locke. Walsh's miss rate immediately went up and has stayed up.


Don't forget, they changed long snappers over that time too. Their current long snapper is Kevin McDermott, who has been with the team since 2015. Prior to that, it was Cullen Loeffler, who was with the Vikes from 2004-2014.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Mothman wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
But here's a truth that may or may not mean anything: His holder during his rookie season was Chris Kluwe. Walsh was a Pro Bowler. The Vikings then released Kluwe and drafted Locke. Walsh's miss rate immediately went up and has stayed up.


Don't forget, they changed long snappers over that time too. Their current long snapper is Kevin McDermott, who has been with the team since 2015. Prior to that, it was Cullen Loeffler, who was with the Vikes from 2004-2014.

You're exactly right, Jim. Forgot about that.

Again, there's no proof of cause and effect. But Walsh just seemed like a different guy his rookie season. He was so confident.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
joe h wrote:
Always been top down problem with this team. Even when the pieces somehow fit together, our coaching staff lets us down. Never been fan of defensive minded coaches, because offense is simply more important in today's game, but offensive minded coaches are almost always too stubborn to realize their flaws.

Zimmer waits until 15 seconds to call a timeout, we all celebrate a hard fought, potentially season turning victory, instead of calling for Walsh's head, and watching any hope for a first round bye disappear. Hell, nothing this team is doing gives me confidence we'll win another game.

If our GM wasn't a stubborn fool and addressed the two most glaring weakness(kicking and offensive line) during the offseason, instead wasting a first round pick on another basket case receiver, we would be discussing a super bowl run. Hell, we were only a piece or two away from a perfect defense, another gator arm receiver is the last thing this team needed.

As much love as priefer gets, he forced the team to cut an average punter, and replace him with the worst punter in 40 years. When was the last time the Vikings had problems with a weak legged punter? And somehow this punter cannot even hold a damn ball right, since our once nearly rookie of the year kicker, cannot even make a damn extra point 10% of the time.

And then the injuries, I've long suspected incompetence among the conditioning staff, nutritionist, medical staff, or someone ordering the wrong shoes. We're losing way too many starters before the seasons even starts, for this to be a freak thing.


Basket case receiver??? He was one of the best if not THE best WR in college football last year. He doesn't have off the field issues, played In pro system, excellent route runner, etc. Yeah really sounds like a basket case. :roll:

More like the coaching staff is stubborn. Charles Johnson is at the point where he isn't even getting a catch in some of these games. My question to this stubborn staff is, can Treadwell be any worse?!!! I mean Johnson is getting 0 catches. I don't think you can get worse than that. So there is no reason Treadwell shouldn't be playing. It's ridiculous

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
PurpleMustReign wrote:
In Zimmers press conference he said he thought the Defense played well. I really disagree. They got no pressure on Stafford, didn't wrap up, let many 3rd and longs get converted, and allowed another long run. I am not sure what Zimmer saw that gave him the impression that the Defense played well, but I surely want what he was smoking. The Lions also dropped some key passes that would have converted other 3rd downs.


Lions had 13 points and under 200 yards of total offense until that debacle at the end where prater tied it, how is that not good?


Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Boon wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
In Zimmers press conference he said he thought the Defense played well. I really disagree. They got no pressure on Stafford, didn't wrap up, let many 3rd and longs get converted, and allowed another long run. I am not sure what Zimmer saw that gave him the impression that the Defense played well, but I surely want what he was smoking. The Lions also dropped some key passes that would have converted other 3rd downs.


Lions had 13 points and under 200 yards of total offense until that debacle at the end where prater tied it, how is that not good?


Statistically, that is good, although allowing a nearly 10 minute TD drive in the second quarter wasn't good. They were excellent in the second half until Detroit's last two scores but unfortunately, they were pretty bad on those game-tying and game-deciding possessions.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Mothman wrote:
Boon wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
In Zimmers press conference he said he thought the Defense played well. I really disagree. They got no pressure on Stafford, didn't wrap up, let many 3rd and longs get converted, and allowed another long run. I am not sure what Zimmer saw that gave him the impression that the Defense played well, but I surely want what he was smoking. The Lions also dropped some key passes that would have converted other 3rd downs.


Lions had 13 points and under 200 yards of total offense until that debacle at the end where prater tied it, how is that not good?


Statistically, that is good, although allowing a nearly 10 minute TD drive in the second quarter wasn't good. They were excellent in the second half until Detroit's last two scores but unfortunately, they were pretty bad on those game-tying and game-deciding possessions.


What's with some of the arm tackles in this game? We weren't seeing that from the Vikings D earlier in the season.

I think the Vikings D needs way more help from the offense. It's shameful the O can't do more in the red zone. Not trying to make excuses for the defense but if the offense puts more points on the board, it would sure help free the D up.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
losperros wrote:
What's with some of the arm tackles in this game? We weren't seeing that from the Vikings D earlier in the season.

I think the Vikings D needs way more help from the offense. It's shameful the O can't do more in the red zone. Not trying to make excuses for the defense but if the offense puts more points on the board, it would sure help free the D up.


It would certainly take some pressure off the defense if the offense could score at least 20 points in a game more often. I think they've only done it twice over the first 8 games.


Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:54 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
halfgiz wrote:
#Vikings had 337 total yards today in regulation in Pat Shurmur debut. Not bad.
Stefon Diggs hauled in a franchise-record 13 catches in today's contest.

Long looks like he is improving.

Linval Joseph said he lined up in the backfield "a pretty good bit" at East Carolina. His only college carry was for one yard in 2009.


Must be fun for him to get a running start before hitting guys. If he can make one handed grabs, he can be our version of JJ Watt. :twisted:


Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Regarding the last play of the game. Is it me or did Rhodes and especially Smith deliberately whiff on those tackle attempts of Golden Tate? Look closely at the way Smith doesnt close his arms. What the hay?


Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:50 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
let's be realistic here, with an offense this lousy what is the best possible scenario? one and done like last year? i thought bradford played pretty decent sunday, but they get into the redzone and cannot seem to get anything accomplished just like last season. we have big receivers that either we aren't making use of; or simply aren't any good. patterson had a tough drop, but that pass would have been difficult for anyone. where is cris carter when you need him in the redzone. we can move the ball between the 20's pretty effectively, but that's about it.


Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
mossbutt wrote:
Regarding the last play of the game. Is it me or did Rhodes and especially Smith deliberately whiff on those tackle attempts of Golden Tate? Look closely at the way Smith doesnt close his arms. What the hay?


I wouldn't say they deliberately missed but I thought Smith's attempt sure looked odd. Rhodes was trying to lay a hit on Tate rather than tackle him and probably just mistimed his hit. Smith had his hands on Tate but it almost looked like he just let go. Like I said, I'm sure he didn't do it on purpose but it sure looked strange to me.


Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
mosscarter wrote:
let's be realistic here, with an offense this lousy what is the best possible scenario? one and done like last year? i thought bradford played pretty decent sunday, but they get into the redzone and cannot seem to get anything accomplished just like last season. we have big receivers that either we aren't making use of; or simply aren't any good. patterson had a tough drop, but that pass would have been difficult for anyone. where is cris carter when you need him in the redzone. we can move the ball between the 20's pretty effectively, but that's about it.

They need to put Treadwell in for redzone situations.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
But here's a truth that may or may not mean anything: His holder during his rookie season was Chris Kluwe. Walsh was a Pro Bowler. The Vikings then released Kluwe and drafted Locke. Walsh's miss rate immediately went up and has stayed up.

Cause-and-effect? No idea. Not nearly enough evidence to support that. But it sure makes a person wonder. I wish somebody would interview Chris Kluwe about it. Even if every word he said was self-congratulatory B.S., it would at least be entertaining!


Locke was his holder his 2nd year. Walsh missed 4 field goals and no extra points his rookie year. The next year he missed 5 field goals and 1 extra point, so yeah, technically his miss rate went up but not by much. It's his 3rd year where we really see more of a decline. If Locke was mishandling the ball I'm sure he would speak up and take the blame for missed kicks, but he hasn't said that and Walsh hasn't brought it up either so I give Walsh credit for taking full responsibility.

I believe it's more of a confidence thing for kickers when they miss a couple field goals it gets in their head. Kind of like when pro golfers get the yips and have trouble making a short put. Walsh's miss in the playoffs last year has to have had a major impact on his psyche. It was terrible conditions but it was a short kick and cost them a playoff game and I'm sure he feels like he let the team down.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Man watching Seattles offensive line reminds me a lot of ours. That line is brutal

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Man watching Seattles offensive line reminds me a lot of ours. That line is brutal


What a mess on that field goal try before half. Refs blew that big time.

Looks like Roger Goodell wants the Seahawks in the playoffs this year.


Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:18 am
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
joe h wrote:

Zimmer waits until 15 seconds to call a timeout, we all celebrate a hard fought, potentially season turning victory, instead of calling for Walsh's head, and watching any hope for a first round bye disappear. Hell, nothing this team is doing gives me confidence we'll win another game.


So we lose 3 straight coming off the bye and you're upset we may not get a first round bye in the playoffs? Hell, we start sluggishly just having a normal 6 days off between games. I hope to high heaven we don't get a bye, if we make the playoffs. High seeding and the expectations that come with it has never been a positive for this team. We're the Vikings, remember? If we have any chance its as the underdog, coming off no rest.

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Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:32 am
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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Man watching Seattles offensive line reminds me a lot of ours. That line is brutal


True, but Wilson and the offense still put up 31 points.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Purple Reign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Man watching Seattles offensive line reminds me a lot of ours. That line is brutal


True, but Wilson and the offense still put up 31 points.


Exactly! And that's where the similarities end.


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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Purple Reign wrote:
TSonn wrote:

Good point there. Forgot about that one. So basically he was 2/5 on plays that are all on him today that most other kickers would get 5/5.


So how do you know he was supposed to keep it short of the end zone? Did Zimmer say that in his post game presser? If not, it's just pure speculation. Maybe they thought the Lions would have a better chance of returning the kickoff for a td versus giving them the ball on the 25 with only 23 seconds left and he was supposed to kick it deep.

Here's how I would back it up.

1. A touchback does the team no good. It puts the ball on the 25 without using any time off the clock.
2. Walsh took ONE STEP, then kicked.
3. He popped it up -- only he popped it into the end zone.
4. The Vikings have one of the best coverage teams in the league, and the Lions hadn't returned a kickoff past the 25 yard line all game. While a TD on a return is always a concern, I'm fairly sure Mike Priefer wasn't fearful of a long return.

Now, I wasn't in the huddle, and I'm no expert. But given the evidence I've outlined, and since Moose Johnston (likely an expert) ALSO said that's probably what was supposed to happen, I'll stick with my speculation.


From today:

Quote:
Mike Priefer said Blair Walsh made a huge mistake on last kickoff.


Quote:
Mike Priefer said game likely would have been over if Walsh had not kicked a touchback.

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Post Re: Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 9
Funkytown wrote:
From today:

Quote:
Mike Priefer said Blair Walsh made a huge mistake on last kickoff.


Quote:
Mike Priefer said game likely would have been over if Walsh had not kicked a touchback.


I think this is the main reason that they brought in other kickers. And I also think that he has kicked himself out of a job at the end of the year. He really is becoming worthless.

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