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 Norv Turner Resigns as OC 
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Romo and murray and dez and all these past 6 years or so the team couldnt stop anyone. Losing games where they score 45 points. But do what theyre doing because they are 6-1 now and the 4th pick in the draft is killing teams. You don't bank on anomalies. I would much rather have the three year build on a defense that is paying dividends now than have 15 years of mediocrity because you cant stop anybody. Give me a break. Dak isnt doing a #### thing but they are playing opportunistic football and winning games. If we need to follow anyones philosophy its new england. They draft bpa most of the time and coach these players up.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:05 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
S197 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
So you feel Spielman has failed more than he has succeeded?


I'm not keeping a tally or anything. ;) I just meant the successes haven't been enough to offset the failures (perhaps missteps would be a better choice of words?) and lead to the kind of postseason success they (and we) want to see.


Interesting take. I can't say that I agree as I think the team, in general, has improved over the last 2.5 years. I realize Spielman has been here longer than that but that's the point where he was finally able to pick his own staff. There have certainly been mistakes, no argument there, I just don't know that they offset his success.


I just don't think there's been enough success. To me, 1 playoff win in 9 years is not particularly successful. I can't give him a pass for everything prior to hiring Zimmer. He's had too much of a hand in it. He's basically been in charge for 6 years now and he's been the official GM for nearly 5. I think he's had a "failure" rate in terms of decision-making that's been sufficient to hold the team back but he's not a bad GM who drags it down into the mire. He's found some great talent and he's capable of building a team that can make the playoffs or win the division once in a while but with each passing year, he looks more and more to me like he lacks what it's going to take build a champion. I just don't think he goes about what he does logically enough. He undermines too many good choices with poor or questionable choices.

That's just my take. I understand where you're coming from. The team's record improved from year 1 to year 2 under Zimmer and they've managed to effectively rebuild the defense. Unfortunately, while they've done that the offense has sunk to the bottom. It's a microcosm of what I'm talking about: the failure on offense offsets the success on defense.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:08 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Norv Zimmer wrote:
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/minnesota-vikings-norv-turner-sam-bradford-pat-shurmur-offense-resign-110216

Good article breaking down how the offenses will be different.


Very good article. I agree with much of it regarding Turner's system not fitting with the present roster of players.

I'm hoping Shurmur can pick things up with a quicker style, which should benefit Bradford.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:25 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
If John Schneider and Pete Carroll are serious about turning their offense around this season they should give Turner a call.
Read more at http://cover32.com/2016/11/02/seahawks- ... UiFU5OV.99

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:28 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
I can't say I am disappointed at this. But as others have said I don't see a ton of change at this point with the line we have. Bradford still,won't be able to drop back and throw because he still,won't have time. It's not like with Turner gone Bradford will now be able to take his time and find the open man. It's the line that is the largest issue right now. Now that's not to,say some fresh ideas can't help. But without the line fix we will still struggle to score more than 20 pts a game.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:17 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
S197 wrote:
Not a fan of switching staff mid-year, especially with the team's current record but at least Shurmur has a lot of familiarity with Bradford. It will be interesting to see if we see any personnel changes, such as Treadwell on the field or Patterson (although he's been getting reps lately).



Its a move that should have come at Zimmer's hand 7 games ago, after we failed to score a single TD against Seattle in our own stadium. But everyone seemed content to think that something would somehow make us a better offense this year ( a miracle I guess?), but there was really precious little reason to expect that would happen.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:26 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
losperros wrote:
Norv Zimmer wrote:
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/minnesota-vikings-norv-turner-sam-bradford-pat-shurmur-offense-resign-110216

Good article breaking down how the offenses will be different.


Very good article. I agree with much of it regarding Turner's system not fitting with the present roster of players.

I'm hoping Shurmur can pick things up with a quicker style, which should benefit Bradford.

Agree completely.

Let's think about how this all happened. There's no proof, of course, but it sure looks like Shurmur's fingerprints were all over the first few games Sam played with the Vikings. Shurmur may not have been calling the plays, per se, but it makes sense that he must have had a lot to do with the TYPES of plays that were being called. How else could Sam have played so well so quickly? The O-line was no less garbage than it is now, but the Vikings were moving the ball and scoring enough to allow the defense to shine.

When the bye week hit, the offense suddenly went to crap. Now I ask you ... what kind of team gets exponentially WORSE on offense during a bye week? I'm betting Norv went back to being Norv, trying to turn Sam Bradford into Troy Aikman and the Vikings into the 1995 Cowboys. Instead of efficiency with the occasional chunk play, as we saw in games 2-5, we reverted back to the maddeningly inept offense of the past two seasons.

As for Zimmer being "very surprised" at Norv's resignation, I have to wonder. ESPN reported that they met early in the day and expressed differences in how the offense should be run. So while Zimmer may not have gone into it expecting Norv to hand in his notice, it's hardly a stretch to think this was mutually agreed upon once the disagreement ensued. This is Zimmer's team, and he has every right to make whatever changes are needed to get this thing turned around.

The Lions' crap defense is the perfect medicine for a sick offense. With the game at home and Shurmur calling plays, I look for the Vikings' offense to go back to playing like they did during Sam's first 4 games. They might not put up 40, but enough to win.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Boon wrote:
Laserman wrote:
Take a LESSON from the Dallas Cowboys, DRAFT a good offensive line. Offense is won in the trenches, any Running back can run thru BIG holes. Almost any NFL calibre QB can tear you a new one if given time in the pocket. Offensive Philosphy HAS to start with a dominant Off. Line, Not WRs, Not TEs, Not Rbs. Go after those guys AFTER you build a dominant line. Look where the Cowboys are now, 6-1 with a Dominant line and probably heading to the SB


Wait til the defense flops. Cause it will. Dallas has had this good line for a while now. Only reason they are doing well is because the rest of the team is doing ok and they have a rb on pace for a 2k season. They have been drafting offensive line high for 15 years give or take and now all of a sudden its "do what dallas is doing" because of one good season rofl



OK Don't draft O linemen and lets continue with the same inept Line for the next few years. :hitfan:


Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
losperros wrote:
Norv Zimmer wrote:
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/minnesota-vikings-norv-turner-sam-bradford-pat-shurmur-offense-resign-110216

Good article breaking down how the offenses will be different.


Very good article. I agree with much of it regarding Turner's system not fitting with the present roster of players.

I'm hoping Shurmur can pick things up with a quicker style, which should benefit Bradford.

Agree completely.

Let's think about how this all happened. There's no proof, of course, but it sure looks like Shurmur's fingerprints were all over the first few games Sam played with the Vikings. Shurmur may not have been calling the plays, per se, but it makes sense that he must have had a lot to do with the TYPES of plays that were being called. How else could Sam have played so well so quickly? The O-line was no less garbage than it is now, but the Vikings were moving the ball and scoring enough to allow the defense to shine.

When the bye week hit, the offense suddenly went to crap. Now I ask you ... what kind of team gets exponentially WORSE on offense during a bye week? I'm betting Norv went back to being Norv, trying to turn Sam Bradford into Troy Aikman and the Vikings into the 1995 Cowboys. Instead of efficiency with the occasional chunk play, as we saw in games 2-5, we reverted back to the maddeningly inept offense of the past two seasons.

As for Zimmer being "very surprised" at Norv's resignation, I have to wonder. ESPN reported that they met early in the day and expressed differences in how the offense should be run. So while Zimmer may not have gone into it expecting Norv to hand in his notice, it's hardly a stretch to think this was mutually agreed upon once the disagreement ensued. This is Zimmer's team, and he has every right to make whatever changes are needed to get this thing turned around.

The Lions' crap defense is the perfect medicine for a sick offense. With the game at home and Shurmur calling plays, I look for the Vikings' offense to go back to playing like they did during Sam's first 4 games. They might not put up 40, but enough to win.


When we got shurmur it was so obvious he was qualified to take over at OC if Norv's offense failed to get anything going again. I think it was a really good hedge by zimmer / spielman so you can give Norv one more shot to make it work but also have a guy who's very experienced that could take over mid season like this so you aren't all in on Norv turning things around.

Then you add in trading for Bradford and how much Shurmur's input was a factor in that and the writing was on the wall imo.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:58 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Glad a change was made. Too often teams stick with what they have simply because it's what they have.

Not sure anyone could produce with the talent that's on the field, but especially with injuries you need to be able to adapt. Norv ran his system regardless. Hopefully we see some attempts at *anything* to make a functional offense with this talent...if it's even possible.


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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
So you feel Spielman has failed more than he has succeeded?


I'm not keeping a tally or anything. ;) I just meant the successes haven't been enough to offset the failures (perhaps missteps would be a better choice of words?) and lead to the kind of postseason success they (and we) want to see.


I mean this team just started to get going last year after a complete rebuild in 2012. If he was a guy that had no clue what he was doing or was a bad GM we wouldn't have went 11-5 last year. The team is 30 times better than it was in 2012. You don't just turn around and get to the playoffs and win a super bowl after you start from the ground up in 2012. He's built the best defense in the NFL. Yeah the offense is struggling but we've also lost both of the toughest positions to fill on the OL, the best RB in the league and our starting QB. Could he of done a better job with the o line....100%. But if we drafted an OL in the first round in 2014, we wouldnt have Anthony Barr. Or the 2nd round in 2015, we wouldnt have Eric Kendricks. Or in the first round of 2015 and not have Trae Waynes, etc, etc. You have to look at it that way too. We could have taken offensive lineman in the first round in 2014 and 2015 but I can bet money guys on here would be losing their mind because we would have nobody worth a damn at OLB or have nobody behind a 38 year old CB.

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Laserman wrote:
Take a LESSON from the Dallas Cowboys, DRAFT a good offensive line. Offense is won in the trenches, any Running back can run thru BIG holes. Almost any NFL calibre QB can tear you a new one if given time in the pocket. Offensive Philosphy HAS to start with a dominant Off. Line, Not WRs, Not TEs, Not Rbs. Go after those guys AFTER you build a dominant line. Look where the Cowboys are now, 6-1 with a Dominant line and probably heading to the SB


But like I said, if we pulled off what the Cowboys did, we wouldnt have the defense we have. It's easy to sit behind a computer screen and say, DO WHAT THE COWBOYS DID!!!!!

It's not that simple. If we did what they did, we wouldnt have guys like Barr, Rhodes, Waynes, Kendricks, Smith, etc.

It seems like some people on here think that we had imaginary picks back in the day that would've given us good offensive lineman, we didnt use them and we'd still be able to have all the studs on defense that we do. It doesnt work that way. There is just nothing realistic about that.

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Boon wrote:
Laserman wrote:
Take a LESSON from the Dallas Cowboys, DRAFT a good offensive line. Offense is won in the trenches, any Running back can run thru BIG holes. Almost any NFL calibre QB can tear you a new one if given time in the pocket. Offensive Philosphy HAS to start with a dominant Off. Line, Not WRs, Not TEs, Not Rbs. Go after those guys AFTER you build a dominant line. Look where the Cowboys are now, 6-1 with a Dominant line and probably heading to the SB


Wait til the defense flops. Cause it will. Dallas has had this good line for a while now. Only reason they are doing well is because the rest of the team is doing ok and they have a rb on pace for a 2k season. They have been drafting offensive line high for 15 years give or take and now all of a sudden its "do what dallas is doing" because of one good season rofl


lol exactly!!

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Agree completely.

Let's think about how this all happened. There's no proof, of course, but it sure looks like Shurmur's fingerprints were all over the first few games Sam played with the Vikings. Shurmur may not have been calling the plays, per se, but it makes sense that he must have had a lot to do with the TYPES of plays that were being called. How else could Sam have played so well so quickly? The O-line was no less garbage than it is now, but the Vikings were moving the ball and scoring enough to allow the defense to shine.

When the bye week hit, the offense suddenly went to crap. Now I ask you ... what kind of team gets exponentially WORSE on offense during a bye week? I'm betting Norv went back to being Norv, trying to turn Sam Bradford into Troy Aikman and the Vikings into the 1995 Cowboys. Instead of efficiency with the occasional chunk play, as we saw in games 2-5, we reverted back to the maddeningly inept offense of the past two seasons.

As for Zimmer being "very surprised" at Norv's resignation, I have to wonder. ESPN reported that they met early in the day and expressed differences in how the offense should be run. So while Zimmer may not have gone into it expecting Norv to hand in his notice, it's hardly a stretch to think this was mutually agreed upon once the disagreement ensued. This is Zimmer's team, and he has every right to make whatever changes are needed to get this thing turned around.

The Lions' crap defense is the perfect medicine for a sick offense. With the game at home and Shurmur calling plays, I look for the Vikings' offense to go back to playing like they did during Sam's first 4 games. They might not put up 40, but enough to win.



Great post Kapp. I agree completely. This coaching change makes it very difficult for opposing teams to scout us because now you don't really know what to expect. There were clearly some battles between Norv's philosophy and what Zim/Shurmur wanted or thought would work. Norv didnt want to budge and thats why he stepped down.

The only other thing I thought of was that Norv wanted to trade for an OL and thought this offense was going nowhere if we didnt and Zim didnt budge but that's probably a long shot. I think it's more of what I said above. Norv was being stern with what he wanted and his play calling.

I am completely confident vs. the Lions. Shurmur has also learned a lot from being in Philly last year. I have a feeling you're going to see a big difference Sunday. 28-10 Vikings.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
This article was posted above and I will post it again for those that didnt read it. This is exactly why I feel confident this Sunday. Turner didnt fit Bradford's style and this explains exactly why.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/minnesota-vikings-norv-turner-sam-bradford-pat-shurmur-offense-resign-110216

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
I wonder what this all means for Teddy. Not only does he need to come back from a devastating injury but he'll also need to learn a new offensive system (and potentially 2 if we don't keep Shurmur after this year).

I think this also suggests that Bradford is our long term QB since Bradford and Shurmur have the same amount of experience together as Teddy and Norv did. And I say "suggests" because I don't believe that Norv stepping down was 100% his decision.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
TSonn wrote:
I wonder what this all means for Teddy. Not only does he need to come back from a devastating injury but he'll also need to learn a new offensive system (and potentially 2 if we don't keep Shurmur after this year).

I think this also suggests that Bradford is our long term QB since Bradford and Shurmur have the same amount of experience together as Teddy and Norv did. And I say "suggests" because I don't believe that Norv stepping down was 100% his decision.


I think Shurmur's scheme fits Teddy more as well compared to Turner's. Teddy has very good short to medium accuracy. That's a lot of what Shurmurs runs. I don't think much changes. He also seems to be around the building a lot so I'm sure he will have his nose in the playbook quite a bit while he's laid up

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:34 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
chicagopurple wrote:
it still kinda sucks that the guys on the OL get paid for sucking and the OC pays the price.....and Spielman, the guy truly responsible for the whole mess is will likely go untouched.

Feels like putting lipstick on a pig.

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
TSonn wrote:
I wonder what this all means for Teddy. Not only does he need to come back from a devastating injury but he'll also need to learn a new offensive system (and potentially 2 if we don't keep Shurmur after this year).

I think this also suggests that Bradford is our long term QB since Bradford and Shurmur have the same amount of experience together as Teddy and Norv did. And I say "suggests" because I don't believe that Norv stepping down was 100% his decision.

It's not like he doesn't have time to study a new playbook. :whistle:

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
So you feel Spielman has failed more than he has succeeded?


I'm not keeping a tally or anything. ;) I just meant the successes haven't been enough to offset the failures (perhaps missteps would be a better choice of words?) and lead to the kind of postseason success they (and we) want to see.


I mean this team just started to get going last year after a complete rebuild in 2012. If he was a guy that had no clue what he was doing or was a bad GM we wouldn't have went 11-5 last year


I didn't say Spielman is clueless or that he's a bad GM. He's not a bad GM. What worries me is that he might not be a good enough GM. I believe that's a legitimate concern.

Quote:
The team is 30 times better than it was in 2012.


Is that why they were just blown out the past 2 weeks, can't run the ball worth a damn and just lost to a 1-6 team?

Quote:
You don't just turn around and get to the playoffs and win a super bowl after you start from the ground up in 2012.


They didn't start from the ground up in 2012. They started a serious rebuild a year earlier, in 2011, with Spielman as the main driving force behind it, even if he wasn't officially the GM until a year later. They've been building for 5+ seasons and 6 offseasons now.

Quote:
He's built the best defense in the NFL. Yeah the offense is struggling but we've also lost both of the toughest positions to fill on the OL, the best RB in the league and our starting QB.


He's helped build one of the best defenses in the NFL and one of the worst offenses in the NFL. It's been near the bottom for 2.5 years not just this season, and the injuries you mentioned and the moves they've forced have further underlined issues with his judgment and lack of foresight.

As I said, I think his failures have offset his successes. Thus far, this season illustrates that quite well. We'll see what the rest of it brings. Maybe it will be the season that proves Spielman can build a champion and we'll be as happy in February as Cubs fans are this morning.


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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
It seems like some people on here think that we had imaginary picks back in the day that would've given us good offensive lineman, we didnt use them and we'd still be able to have all the studs on defense that we do. It doesnt work that way. There is just nothing realistic about that.


I don't see anybody saying that either. Let's deal with actual assertions, not straw men.


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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Laserman wrote:
Boon wrote:
Laserman wrote:
Take a LESSON from the Dallas Cowboys, DRAFT a good offensive line. Offense is won in the trenches, any Running back can run thru BIG holes. Almost any NFL calibre QB can tear you a new one if given time in the pocket. Offensive Philosphy HAS to start with a dominant Off. Line, Not WRs, Not TEs, Not Rbs. Go after those guys AFTER you build a dominant line. Look where the Cowboys are now, 6-1 with a Dominant line and probably heading to the SB


Wait til the defense flops. Cause it will. Dallas has had this good line for a while now. Only reason they are doing well is because the rest of the team is doing ok and they have a rb on pace for a 2k season. They have been drafting offensive line high for 15 years give or take and now all of a sudden its "do what dallas is doing" because of one good season rofl



OK Don't draft O linemen and lets continue with the same inept Line for the next few years. :hitfan:


I don't think anyone is saying that, teams use draft picks differently for different reasons. We would not have our defense without our draft picks.

I for one don't think the cowgirls are super bowl bound.


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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Laserman wrote:
Take a LESSON from the Dallas Cowboys, DRAFT a good offensive line. Offense is won in the trenches, any Running back can run thru BIG holes. Almost any NFL calibre QB can tear you a new one if given time in the pocket. Offensive Philosphy HAS to start with a dominant Off. Line, Not WRs, Not TEs, Not Rbs. Go after those guys AFTER you build a dominant line. Look where the Cowboys are now, 6-1 with a Dominant line and probably heading to the SB


But like I said, if we pulled off what the Cowboys did, we wouldnt have the defense we have. It's easy to sit behind a computer screen and say, DO WHAT THE COWBOYS DID!!!!!

It's not that simple. If we did what they did, we wouldnt have guys like Barr, Rhodes, Waynes, Kendricks, Smith, etc.

It seems like some people on here think that we had imaginary picks back in the day that would've given us good offensive lineman, we didnt use them and we'd still be able to have all the studs on defense that we do. It doesnt work that way. There is just nothing realistic about that.


What we could have done and should have done last draft was go OL instead of Treadwell. Just my opinion.


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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
autobon7 wrote:
What we could have done and should have done last draft was go OL instead of Treadwell. Just my opinion.


Agree completely. I believe the Vikings staff made some mistakes evaluating the team and its players in the recent past. That includes a questionable case of denial regarding the OL needs.


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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
I don't think they had a case of denial. They replaced 4 out of 5 starters on the OL and changed out the coach. That is addressing the situation. The problem is that their solutions have so far ended up being a step backwards instead of a step forward. Injuries obviously are a piece of this puzzle, but not the only piece.

My sense in reading all of this is that there was a deep division of opinion in how to use the roster and what types of things we could effectively run. Norv probably realized that things were not going in the direction he would prefer, whether it was right or wrong and thus he decided to step aside for the better of the team. I don't think it is a case of him running for the hills. Remember what Zimmer had to say about Bobby Petrino when he was with the Falcons? If Norv had done that Zimmer likely would have skewered him.

Obviously something went on over that bye week. Our offense wasn't anywhere near as awful going into it as it was coming out. Something was wrong and it had to get fixed. After two abyssmal games something broke and this is the result. How or why it all went down we'll never know. Now we just need to see them play better.

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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
mansquatch wrote:
I don't think they had a case of denial. They replaced 4 out of 5 starters on the OL and changed out the coach. That is addressing the situation. The problem is that their solutions have so far ended up being a step backwards instead of a step forward. Injuries obviously are a piece of this puzzle, but not the only piece.

My sense in reading all of this is that there was a deep division of opinion in how to use the roster and what types of things we could effectively run. Norv probably realized that things were not going in the direction he would prefer, whether it was right or wrong and thus he decided to step aside for the better of the team. I don't think it is a case of him running for the hills. Remember what Zimmer had to say about Bobby Petrino when he was with the Falcons? If Norv had done that Zimmer likely would have skewered him.

Obviously something went on over that bye week. Our offense wasn't anywhere near as awful going into it as it was coming out. Something was wrong and it had to get fixed. After two abyssmal games something broke and this is the result. How or why it all went down we'll never know. Now we just need to see them play better.


Well we kinda do know. Bradford was sacked 11 times in 2 games and Zimmer didn't like it. Zimmer never interfered in any way with Norv's offense until recently, when they had a discussion about how to protect Bradford better. Norv didn't agree on whatever Zim was suggesting or nudging him toward, so he left.

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Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:19 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
until spielman realizes that the Ol must be his primary focus we are not going to progress. It wasn't that long ago that we had a good OL...all of you on this thread have been around long enough to know what a team with a good OL can do. tweaking the plays and changing between these 2 QBs is just lipstick on the pig until we get a quality Ol.
As far as the long term team prospect goes, players come and go in the NFL. Its a brutal game with pretty short careers usually. What is more important than the specific players is the Corporate philosophy and SCOUTING. Teams like the Pats always have solid lines, always find reasonably priced good players at key positions and have a back up at hand. They seem to avoid holding on to "stars" that become over priced liabilities and replace them with solid players. SUcessful teams coach up players and show improvement. Zim seems to be able to do this on defense. Honestly, I see NO ability to coach up talent on our offense. None of our QBs in recent hx have shown long term improvement...ponder, Teddy, etc etc just stagnate. Our WR seem to do so too....perhaps Diggs will break that mold. Our OL NEVER improves. Our special teams HAVE improved over last 5-7 yrs. Not our offense.


Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:09 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
chicagopurple wrote:
until spielman realizes that the Ol must be his primary focus we are not going to progress. It wasn't that long ago that we had a good OL...all of you on this thread have been around long enough to know what a team with a good OL can do. tweaking the plays and changing between these 2 QBs is just lipstick on the pig until we get a quality Ol.
As far as the long term team prospect goes, players come and go in the NFL. Its a brutal game with pretty short careers usually. What is more important than the specific players is the Corporate philosophy and SCOUTING. Teams like the Pats always have solid lines, always find reasonably priced good players at key positions and have a back up at hand. They seem to avoid holding on to "stars" that become over priced liabilities and replace them with solid players. SUcessful teams coach up players and show improvement. Zim seems to be able to do this on defense. Honestly, I see NO ability to coach up talent on our offense. None of our QBs in recent hx have shown long term improvement...ponder, Teddy, etc etc just stagnate. Our WR seem to do so too....perhaps Diggs will break that mold. Our OL NEVER improves. Our special teams HAVE improved over last 5-7 yrs. Not our offense.


You're being a bit contradictory. According to you (and I agree 100%) successful teams coach up players, and it isn't happening on our offense. Name one single offensive player who has significantly improved since Norv got here. There isn't one, except maybe Thielen. Therefore we should be able to improve with better coaching, just as we have on defense.

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Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
you can coach up a good solid avg player.....I don't think Spielman has given us good/solid players for the OL....he gambled on Clemmings (seems pretty poor), he gambled on a guy with blown discs in his back( sully) who was never gonna be healthy again. He has pissed away years on Kalil who never showed the skill/dedication and should have been gone long ago, and pretended for yrs that Fusco was anything more then an emergency back up player. Norv couldn't fix that with creativity. Neither will any new guy. Spielman needs to do his job. Or we need to upgrade our GM. I don't think he has performed nearly well enough and he has had plenty of time.....If you want to be the best, and that is our ONLY goal, then you need an NFL version of Theo Epstein.....not Spielman.


Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Purple Martin wrote:
You're being a bit contradictory. According to you (and I agree 100%) successful teams coach up players, and it isn't happening on our offense. Name one single offensive player who has significantly improved since Norv got here. There isn't one, except maybe Thielen.


Thielen has definitely improved and Line has too. Actually, Patterson's route running has improved too. McKinnon and Diggs came in as rookies but they've played like they're well-coached and McKinnon is in a system quite different than the one he played in as a college player.

Some would argue that Bridgewater showed improvement too.

Quote:
Therefore we should be able to improve with better coaching, just as we have on defense.


It's certainly possible but is Shurmur actually a better coach than Turner? I don't know.


Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:25 pm
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