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 Norv Turner Resigns as OC 
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:
PacificNorseWest wrote:
"So I think it might be Zimmer's philosophical method."


There ya go, Jim. Maybe that's part of the philosophical difference between Zimmer and Norv that led him to resign. Maybe not.



Wait... what are you quoting? I think I missed something.


Inside losperros' quote. I remember in this thread or another you were curious as to what the philosophical difference between the two may have been.


Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Inside losperros' quote. I remember in this thread or another you were curious as to what the philosophical difference between the two may have been.


I am curious.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sorry it was necessary. My focus is all over the place today... in other words, I'm unfocused. :)


Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:17 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
I hate to be pessimistic, but in the short term, Norv's resignation and Shurmur's ascension is not going to many any difference. It is still the same OL, the same RB's, the same QB, etc. The playbook will not change dramatically mid-season and the realities of masking our porous OL with "safe" plays will keep the offense one-dimensional and easily neutralized. It's going to be a bumpy ride and we will struggle to get into the playoffs.

Hope I'm wrong. :govikes:

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Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:38 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
I dont think we cant be both safe and dynamic enough on offense. The Eagles are a good blueprint to,follow. With an oline with that many injuries and suspensions and a rookie QB they have looked solid. They do a really good job of getting the ball to playmakers in space and we have the weapons to do the same. With guys like Mckinnon, Patterson, and Diggs we can throw lots of swing passes, slants, screens, etc to get them room to run. Obviously we are limites due to our line, but if we get creative we have plenty at the skill positions to have a decent offense.

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Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Inside losperros' quote. I remember in this thread or another you were curious as to what the philosophical difference between the two may have been.


I am curious.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sorry it was necessary. My focus is all over the place today... in other words, I'm unfocused. :)


I am as well. It was a lazy post, so don't feel bad.


Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:25 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:
losperros wrote:
In that case, I think Norv was flat out wrong. Patterson should and could have contributed on offense last season, and he could have done more this season as well. I'm hoping Shurmur will discover CP84 is on the team and has explosive skills, and Shurmur will utilize him appropriately.

As for the conservatism of not starting rookies, I think Mansquatch is onto something. That approach happens on both offense and defense. So I think it might be Zimmer's philosophical method, which means it still may be standard operating procedure.


They've started some rookies so it seems to be a choice they make on a case by case basis.


The point I tried to make is who is making the choices. Since the case by case basis is both on offense and defense, we know Norv couldn't have been making all the decisions about being conservative with any particular rookies.


Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
losperros wrote:
Mothman wrote:
losperros wrote:
In that case, I think Norv was flat out wrong. Patterson should and could have contributed on offense last season, and he could have done more this season as well. I'm hoping Shurmur will discover CP84 is on the team and has explosive skills, and Shurmur will utilize him appropriately.

As for the conservatism of not starting rookies, I think Mansquatch is onto something. That approach happens on both offense and defense. So I think it might be Zimmer's philosophical method, which means it still may be standard operating procedure.


They've started some rookies so it seems to be a choice they make on a case by case basis.


The point I tried to make is who is making the choices. Since the case by case basis is both on offense and defense, we know Norv couldn't have been making all the decisions about being conservative with any particular rookies.


Sorry, I did understand your point. My comment was meant more as a general statement in the midst of the discussion rather than a direct reply to your point. Unfortunately I didn't make that clear at all! :oops:


Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:
losperros wrote:
The point I tried to make is who is making the choices. Since the case by case basis is both on offense and defense, we know Norv couldn't have been making all the decisions about being conservative with any particular rookies.


Sorry, I did understand your point. My comment was meant more as a general statement in the midst of the discussion rather than a direct reply to your point. Unfortunately I didn't make that clear at all! :oops:


No problemo, Jim. Had I articulated myself better there never would have been any confusion.

So we're both guilty. :D


Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:19 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Maybe Norv wanted to go with Shaun Hill or Taylor Heinecke and the organization (somewhat understandably) is comited and locked in to Bradford given what they mortgaged to get him.

Bradford has proven he isn't capable of performing in that offensive system, so maybe it was just destined to fail so long as Norv was onboard.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:41 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
fiestavike wrote:
Maybe Norv wanted to go with Shaun Hill or Taylor Heinecke and the organization (somewhat understandably) is comited and locked in to Bradford given what they mortgaged to get him.


That seems extraordinarily unlikely.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:02 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Maybe Norv wanted to go with Shaun Hill or Taylor Heinecke and the organization (somewhat understandably) is comited and locked in to Bradford given what they mortgaged to get him.


That seems extraordinarily unlikely.


I think this team would be at least 6-4 (if not better) with Shaun Hill under center. :confused:

Heinecke would be the most sensible play longterm. Can he play at least as good as Sam? probably, but let's find out. If the Vikings move on from Bradford, and Peterson, along with several other players who carry 0 or minimal cap hits, they can clear between 50-60 million to work on the offensive line.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:13 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
fiestavike wrote:
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Maybe Norv wanted to go with Shaun Hill or Taylor Heinecke and the organization (somewhat understandably) is comited and locked in to Bradford given what they mortgaged to get him.


That seems extraordinarily unlikely.


I think this team would be at least 6-4 (if not better) with Shaun Hill under center. :confused:

Heinecke would be the most sensible play longterm. Can he play at least as good as Sam? probably, but let's find out. If the Vikings move on from Bradford, and Peterson, along with several other players who carry 0 or minimal cap hits, they can clear between 50-60 million to work on the offensive line.



Seriously? Whoa. You really do not like Bradford, eh? I think he's played very well and if not for him we'd likely be 3-7 or so. :popcorn:


Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:28 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
fiestavike wrote:
I think this team would be at least 6-4 (if not better) with Shaun Hill under center. :confused:


I don't and if Norv felt strongly that Hill should be the QB (and could last the season), I doubt the Bradford trade would have happened in the first place. Hill's limitations would probably have made the offense even more one-dimensional than it's been with a terrible running game. They'd be easier to defend with Hill at QB, not harder.

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Heinecke would be the most sensible play longterm. Can he play at least as good as Sam? probably, but let's find out.


"Probably"? Based on a handful of decent pre-season games?

Heinicke hasn't even been healthy enough to play for most of this season and there's no reason to believe that once he returned, Norv favored him over Bradford so much that he resigned because he couldn't play him.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:36 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
what is with all this Bradford hate? The guy does the ONE thing that Teddy did well (not throw INTs), has a good quick release game (the ONLY reason he is still alive), and is a reasonable leader. Can he throw deep balls accurately? Not frequently but seemingly better then Teddy. Our other back ups havent shown any reason to believe that they are better then this. Its crazy to suggest that our team is being held back by a lack of QB talent. We are limited by having absolutely NO Ol and a few back up role players at RB who arent capable of posing a run threat when they get no blocking.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:46 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Hiencke wasn't much of an option at the time of the trade.
I think Norv liked Bradford based on what i remember from the comments. i think Norv is gone because his system/philosophy has requirements that are very difficult to achieve in todays game...how it played out is moot to me. it just wasn't working.
I can't guess what they mighta got outta hill/hiencke...but i don't think that woulda been a bad move for the long term either, to fiesta's point.
gotta see how it all plays out. i'm sure the new stadium had some effect on their reasoning to go after bradford. maybe they flinched and maybe the crushed it...we'll see.
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i read this morn on another board that the offense this season under norv was getting 1.6something pts per drive, which put them near the bottom of the league.
Since shurmur has been at the helm they are @ 1.9...middle of the pack.
just posting a number, not making any clims about it~


Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:47 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
chicagopurple wrote:
Can he throw deep balls accurately? Not frequently but seemingly better then Teddy.

It's my opinion that Bradford's accuracy has gotten worse since he's gotten here. Definitely more happy feet, but I guess I'd have happy feet behind this line too.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:42 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:

"Probably"? Based on a handful of decent pre-season games?



Heinecke has shown a little promise, but its based more on Bradford's limitations. At his best he is slightly above average. He is a middling QB with no upside and too many fatal flaws to ever be elite or anything close to it.

The point is that longterm, Bradford will never be the answer. Three teams have found that firsthand, and the rest of the league already knows. And my main point is that this team is making bad, shortsighted decisions, like trading for Bradford, and like sticking with him when its obvious he doesn't amount to much, and he's compounding the problems the team already has. Instead they should be looking longterm for someone with the capicity to make better out of the opportunities the offense has on the field (however limited), or addressing the problems at the root of their struggles (OL) with the same resources.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:49 am
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
fiestavike wrote:
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Maybe Norv wanted to go with Shaun Hill or Taylor Heinecke and the organization (somewhat understandably) is comited and locked in to Bradford given what they mortgaged to get him.


That seems extraordinarily unlikely.


I think this team would be at least 6-4 (if not better) with Shaun Hill under center. :confused:

Heinecke would be the most sensible play longterm. Can he play at least as good as Sam? probably, but let's find out. If the Vikings move on from Bradford, and Peterson, along with several other players who carry 0 or minimal cap hits, they can clear between 50-60 million to work on the offensive line.


Wow. These are extraordinarily over-reaching, fantastical estimates.

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Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:29 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
fiestavike wrote:
Mothman wrote:

"Probably"? Based on a handful of decent pre-season games?



Heinecke has shown a little promise, but its based more on Bradford's limitations. At his best he is slightly above average. He is a middling QB with no upside and too many fatal flaws to ever be elite or anything close to it.

The point is that longterm, Bradford will never be the answer. Three teams have found that firsthand, and the rest of the league already knows. And my main point is that this team is making bad, shortsighted decisions, like trading for Bradford, and like sticking with him when its obvious he doesn't amount to much, and he's compounding the problems the team already has. Instead they should be looking longterm for someone with the capicity to make better out of the opportunities the offense has on the field (however limited), or addressing the problems at the root of their struggles (OL) with the same resources.


We made a "short-sighted" decision because we thought we had a chance at a deep playoff run with a decent starting QB. Shaun Hill is not even a starting QB, Bradford is. He's roughly average in most statistical categories but that means half the league's starting QBs are worse than him, therefore qualifying him as decent. None of which means we shouldn't look to shore up the OL.

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Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Purple Martin wrote:
We made a "short-sighted" decision because we thought we had a chance at a deep playoff run with a decent starting QB. Shaun Hill is not even a starting QB, Bradford is. He's roughly average in most statistical categories but that means half the league's starting QBs are worse than him, therefore qualifying him as decent. None of which means we shouldn't look to shore up the OL.


Well said.

The deepest flaw exposed by the Bradford trade is the one that necessitated it in the first place. For a decade now, the Vikings have been drafting young QBs in the first or second round (Jackson, Ponder, Bridgewater) and then putting all of their eggs in one basket and settling for backups who have little to no shot at becoming long term starters themselves. The Bradford trade was a direct consequence of their insistence on repeating the same mistake again.

There's definitely an argument to be made that the Vikings don't use their resources wisely enough and there's also an argument to be made that they didn't accurately assess their chances to make a deep playoff run in the first place, although it's harder to make that argument when such a run remains possible. :)


Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
i wouldn't say bradford clearly isn't the long term answer. what he has done behind no offensive line whatsoever, or run game has been pretty impressive. only 2 interceptions? if he had more time to throw he would be playing better.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Mothman wrote:

Well said.

The deepest flaw exposed by the Bradford trade is the one that necessitated it in the first place.

this is the truth IMO


Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:01 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Purple Martin wrote:

We made a "short-sighted" decision because we thought we had a chance at a deep playoff run with a decent starting QB. Shaun Hill is not even a starting QB, Bradford is. He's roughly average in most statistical categories but that means half the league's starting QBs are worse than him, therefore qualifying him as decent. None of which means we shouldn't look to shore up the OL.


The idea that a deep playoff run could justify such a decision is the problem. I guess if you think Bradford could develop into an elite QB it would change the equation, but given that (to my eyes) he is fatally flawed to never be more than average, it was a terrible move. Either the Vikings are back to their eternally coming up short ways of mortaging resources for a short term goal (deep playoff run) or they got their analysis of Sam Bradford terribly wrong, almost to the point of a fireable offense.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:46 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
I'm Joining You Norv, #### this team


Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC
Laserman wrote:
I'm Joining You Norv, #### this team



:rofl: :point:

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Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:50 pm
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