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 Keeping Some Context 
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Fenrir
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Post Keeping Some Context
It's been an ugly two weeks, no doubt. Things need to be fixed and everyone should be held accountable. That being said, I think we need to step back from the ledge a little. Lets take a look around the league shall we?

The Vikings are 2-2 on the road, which isn't great but isn't bad. They've yet to lose at home.

Is Seattle a good team? They have just as many losses. And only 1 road win.

Arizona and Carolina were the best in the NFC, both have losing records.

Atlanta looks good but they also have 3 losses. So does Pittsburgh and Green Bay (both 1-2 on the road).

The Vikings have the same amount of losses as the Broncos, Raiders, and Chiefs.

Really, other than the Patriots and Cowboys, everyone is showing kinks in their armor. Seems a little premature to be throwing in the towel right now. Cause for concern? I can certainly understand that but this season is far from over. The Vikings are back home against a division rival, lets hope they can end the losing streak at 2. This is still a very good team and that stadium provides a big home field advantage.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
The problem for me is the trend. If it were up or even flat, it would be more encouraging. But man, the needle is pointing down. Losing to the Eagles with that defense -- understandable to a point. But the Bears? They're flat-out bad, and we got waxed.

All that being said, you're right to a degree. We're 5-2 and leading the division. Things could be worse. The Lions scare me, but I do feel better with our team at home. We should be 6-2 after this weekend (knock on wood).

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
Its a completely different team at home. Then again this line and playcalling scare me. I got caught. My fault completely. Thought everything was rainbows and unicorns and then the real line shows up


Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
My thing is, and I've said this from day 1, Kalil and Smith are in contract years now. So with how this all turned out and, IMO, idiotically not making a trade before the deadline, this FORCES us to re-sign either Kalil or Smith this offseason if not both. By not having a first round pick and having a weaker tackle class coming up, they really have no choice at this point. Nobody worth a damn is hitting free agency. I'll warn everyone now, don't expect major changes on this OL in the offseason. Adding draft picks, yeah, but don't expect a whole lot because we are going to get a 2nd-3rd round OT that is going to need time to develop.

Kalil and Smith are poor OTs but nothing is worse than the guys we have out there now. Especially Clemmings. Kalil and Smith werent even close to being this bad during the first few games. Not having a first murders us because we don't have much of a way to move up in the draft. This is why it wouldve been MUCH better off making a trade. We're drafting for depth now. Treadwell and Alexander are sitting the bench not because they are busts or bad picks but because there is no need to rush them because we have guys in there that can get it done. Although I'm completely done with Charles Johnson. I can't believe i ever defended that guy. So if we are just drafting for depth, why not give up a 2nd and Wright or Johnson or Floyd or Sendejo to get a legit OT. It was a bad move on our part and I'm going to believe that for quite some time. It doesnt "hurt or mortgage our future" because chances are, we're going OT with that pick regardless. So now in turn, we have to sit and wait on a guy to develop rather than having an establish veteran like Thomas and Staley that are two of the best in the NFL. Granted there were cap issues but I feel like if we wanted to move the right pieces, we could've made it work.

Side note: Randomly I am actually friends with Phil Loadholts aunt of Facebook. Don't ask me how it happened because I honestly can't remember lol. We've been friends for a few years now and talk here and there during the season when Phil was playing. When he was hurt she was always giving me updates on how he was doing. I messaged her just now asking her if he would consider coming out of retirement. Very curious as to what she says. I'm also going to ask if the Vikings by chance have gotten ahold of him. I'll keep you guys posted. Makes me feel like the Adam Scheffer of this board :lol:

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:19 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
Cant see how Phil could be any worse then Clemmings at RT. I think everyone else on our line can at least be serviceable, he is the one that needs to be replaced. Would love to see it, but dont see why Phil would want to still play with all the injuries hes battled and the fact we cant pay him much. Maybe he has some loyalty to former teammates/coaches?

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:32 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
the attitude is what bothered me about the players on sunday.
The supposedly potent D, playing soft and looked disinterested with the game.
The O-line, all looked like deer in headlights (especially Clemmings). But at least they looked like they cared, with the exception of Long.
On a particular play, where he got beat with a hand move straight off the line (for the millionth time) he just grabbed around the defensive lineman, and got called for the most blatent holding call you'll see. The camera zooms in on him, and he's got a big smile on his face. The smile of a guy who's conned a team into paying him for doing literally nothing. I hope i'm wrong, but there was zero effort from him, in my view. Just happy being paid.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:29 am
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
S197 wrote:
It's been an ugly two weeks, no doubt. Things need to be fixed and everyone should be held accountable. That being said, I think we need to step back from the ledge a little. Lets take a look around the league shall we?

The Vikings are 2-2 on the road, which isn't great but isn't bad. They've yet to lose at home.

Is Seattle a good team? They have just as many losses. And only 1 road win.

Arizona and Carolina were the best in the NFC, both have losing records.

Atlanta looks good but they also have 3 losses. So does Pittsburgh and Green Bay (both 1-2 on the road).

The Vikings have the same amount of losses as the Broncos, Raiders, and Chiefs.

Really, other than the Patriots and Cowboys, everyone is showing kinks in their armor. Seems a little premature to be throwing in the towel right now. Cause for concern? I can certainly understand that but this season is far from over. The Vikings are back home against a division rival, lets hope they can end the losing streak at 2. This is still a very good team and that stadium provides a big home field advantage.


I'm not sure it actually is a "very good team" but time will tell. I'm certainly not throwing in the towel on the season. As you pointed out, they certainly aren't alone in having some real flaws. Where they go from here will depend on how will they can address and/or cover for them.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:15 am
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
My thing is, and I've said this from day 1, Kalil and Smith are in contract years now. So with how this all turned out and, IMO, idiotically not making a trade before the deadline, this FORCES us to re-sign either Kalil or Smith this offseason if not both. By not having a first round pick and having a weaker tackle class coming up, they really have no choice at this point. Nobody worth a damn is hitting free agency. I'll warn everyone now, don't expect major changes on this OL in the offseason. Adding draft picks, yeah, but don't expect a whole lot because we are going to get a 2nd-3rd round OT that is going to need time to develop.

Kalil and Smith are poor OTs but nothing is worse than the guys we have out there now. Especially Clemmings. Kalil and Smith werent even close to being this bad during the first few games. Not having a first murders us because we don't have much of a way to move up in the draft. This is why it wouldve been MUCH better off making a trade. We're drafting for depth now. Treadwell and Alexander are sitting the bench not because they are busts or bad picks but because there is no need to rush them because we have guys in there that can get it done. Although I'm completely done with Charles Johnson. I can't believe i ever defended that guy. So if we are just drafting for depth, why not give up a 2nd and Wright or Johnson or Floyd or Sendejo to get a legit OT. It was a bad move on our part and I'm going to believe that for quite some time. It doesnt "hurt or mortgage our future" because chances are, we're going OT with that pick regardless. So now in turn, we have to sit and wait on a guy to develop rather than having an establish veteran like Thomas and Staley that are two of the best in the NFL. Granted there were cap issues but I feel like if we wanted to move the right pieces, we could've made it work.


Maybe but even if they could have managed their cap issues well enough to make a big trade for a tackle, they still would have needed a trade partner willing to accept what they could offer. You're writing about this as if making a trade was entirely up to them and all they had to do was turn in their "trade for a tackle" card and their "waive the cap rules" or "automatically renegotiate your contract" card.

The real problem here isn't that they failed to make another desperate, 11th hour move. It's the lack of foresight and preparation that's making such moves appear both necessary and appealing in the first place. It's mismanagement.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:18 am
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
The issue is Defenses have now adjusted to them without AP.

They are seeing more cover 2, which is allowing defenses to do more to double up on our WR. This puts us in a conundrum. If we leave TE in to help protect the QB we then have fewer guys out in pattern against a defense that conceivably will have 5+ DBs with which to defend. The answer is for our OL to punish them at the LOS and have our RB rip off a few runs of 5+ yards forcing their hand due to down/distance.

The game on sunday was a prime example of why we are stuck here. Nobody on the line could get any member of the Bear's front 4 off the ball or generate any kind of push. They were over matched physically and athletically. It was pathetic. The goal line series at the end of the first half was as symbolic of their sorry state as anything I've seen all year. The tackles can do nothing to prevent the edge rushers from getting to the QB and the interior OL cannot generate any push in the middle.

Zimmer likes physical play. Well, it is time for the this OL to get physical and punish teams out of this defensive alignment. Asiata is the right kind of back to do it, but he isn't going to get yards without any holes. Guys are saying AP is glad he isn't running behind this front. I think he is upset he isn't running against these defensive formations, they are RB's dream come true. Sadly, he is on IR and I'm not sure this unit can suddenly find it within themselves to make the running attack work. Zimmer said they will have to find it within themselves to get better, hopefully that happens sooner rather than later.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:46 am
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
There is a lot of football left. I am frustrated, but I got sucked in. This is still the Minnesota Vikings. I shouldn't have expected to not be let down.

Team should still make the playoffs - anything can happen in January.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:37 am
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
The problem for me is the trend. If it were up or even flat, it would be more encouraging. But man, the needle is pointing down. Losing to the Eagles with that defense -- understandable to a point. But the Bears? They're flat-out bad, and we got waxed.

All that being said, you're right to a degree. We're 5-2 and leading the division. Things could be worse. The Lions scare me, but I do feel better with our team at home. We should be 6-2 after this weekend (knock on wood).


Hopefully it doesn't follow the Falcons of a few years back where they came out of the gate strong and went into free fall. The Eagles lost two straight but seems to have righted the ship for now. I'm cautiously optimistic.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
I think a lot of the frustration is that we haven't seen a halfway decent vikings game in around a month. It sucks. I just want to watch a semi decent vikings game again.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:34 pm
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Fenrir
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
IrishViking wrote:
I think a lot of the frustration is that we haven't seen a halfway decent vikings game in around a month. It sucks. I just want to watch a semi decent vikings game again.


It's really been more like two weeks. I thought the team looked very good against the Texans (who are in 1st place in their division right now) and then there was the bye.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:43 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
yeah no kidding. What the heck happened over that Bye week?

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Keeping Some Context
S197 wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
I think a lot of the frustration is that we haven't seen a halfway decent vikings game in around a month. It sucks. I just want to watch a semi decent vikings game again.


It's really been more like two weeks. I thought the team looked very good against the Texans (who are in 1st place in their division right now) and then there was the bye.



...Which is 3 weeks... and its a week till they play again... a month. It'll be a month since we have seen potentially "good" football.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:49 pm
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