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 It's panic time  
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Post Re: It's panic time
anyone who thinks we just need 2 guys on the OL then we are all set is delusional.
No One on the OL is good enough.

Fusco....career journeyman only fit to come in for injured true starters
Kalil.....luckiest guy in the world got his millions and never contributed other then chronic penalties in critical plays.
Clemmings.....draft choice waste that has perfect the art of regression, sliding backward ata consistent rate both on paper and on turf.

and a bunch of veteran pick ups who are milking the Vikes in their waning years when they ought to be retired.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:07 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
So what are they then?? Two tackles away from a Super Bowl??


Probably more than that. I don't know. I'm just saying, they should proceed with caution and be careful about giving up too much of their future in a desperate attempt to win this year.

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They managed to do half way decent with Kalil and Smith in there leading us up to 5-0 against good teams. No less it gives us a LT for the next 3 years at least given their current contracts. So instead, we should "hope" we find a LT AND RT in free agency and the draft without a first round pick??? Why dont you go take a look at last years draft class. And see how many tackles went in the 2nd and 3rd round and how many tackles from the second round on are even starting anywhere. There is next to none.

So in turn, we save our 2nd or 3rd or 4th to draft an OT to come in as a backup like everyone else did this past year?? OH WAIT, they have to come in and are forced to START because both of our original starting tackles are free agents next year. And bums to boot. If we can wheel a trade where we give up a 2nd, Wright and another player to get Thomas or Staley, essentially we took Thomas or Staley in the 2nd round. And gave up at least one guy that is hardly ever active. Instead of drafting a guy we have to develop for 3 years. Granted, Thomas and Staley are owed more money but I'd much rather go in that direction than any other.

I'll repeat once again that we DONT HAVE A FIRST. Which means we are out of the running for a top OT. Why not trade that second away to get a proven one.


Please, calm down a little, You're "shouting" in all caps in multiple threads.

I'm not saying a trade isn't worth considering, just that it needs to be carefully considered and there are consequences to giving up a second round pick or more for a 31 year old tackle who costs a lot more against the cap. As I said above, it might make sense... it depends on the trade.

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You dont just "lie in the bed" after a 5-0 start. You DO something about it.


Only if it's a wise move in both the short and long term. There's a case to be made either way. I've seen the consequences of this team giving up too many future picks in trade and the hindrance that can be in the future. I've also seen what happens when they go "all in" for one season without sufficient regard for future consequences.

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Because then everything else becomes a waste. This defense becomes a waste. The Bradford trade is a waste. Everything we've done the first 5 games is a waste.


The Bradford trade doesn't become a waste because the Bradford trade wasn't just for this year. If a 5-0 start gets wasted, that would be unfortunate.

If they trade for Staley or Thomas and adding a tackle doesn't turn out to be the secret ingredient that wins them the Super Bowl, isn't the season a "waste" by the standards you're applying above anyway?

Again, I'm not opposed to a trade but it's not a simple impulsive no-brainer. The present and future costs matter. The age and salary of the player acquired matters. The length of that player's remaining contract matters. It's not a decision to be made rashly.


I didn't know you could "shout" on a message board. I use all caps in plenty of my posts and have for quite some time now but that's besides the point. Bottom line is, I'm not laying down if I'm Zim and Spielman. You go out and you do something about it. Don't let a team with this much potential crap the bed

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:22 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I didn't know you could "shout" on a message board. I use all caps in plenty of my posts and have for quite some time now but that's besides the point.


Generally speaking, using all caps on the internet is considered "shouting". It's not a big deal. If you want to keep doing it, that's fine. I just wanted you to be aware that's how it tends to be perceived.

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Bottom line is, I'm not laying down if I'm Zim and Spielman. You go out and you do something about it. Don't let a team with this much potential crap the bed


I don't think they should lay down either. My point was just that they need to proceed wisely, considering all factors.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:47 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Could have been the camera angle last night but it sure looked like Asiata missed some wide open running lanes and choose to run directly into his blockers instead. I think McKinnon would have had some decent gains last night and AD would have had a good game.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:52 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
I still can't get my head wrapped around how this OC is still employed. Fans can sit there from their couch, see a formation and practically call every play being ran. And the whole Treadwell situation is driving me nuts. And I don't want to hear any crap about the OL. They were doing ok the weeks before these last two minus run blocking. But Bradford wasn't getting assaulted as bad. Here's another eye test question, didn't it seem as if when the playbook was shortened to give sam time to learn it the offense was doing better? Like there was a small improv factor involved and it was confusing defenses? The more he's learning the playbook the worse everyone is playing. Ball was out quicker, line was blocking better, offense was a lot more efficient. More opportunistic, it seems odd. Spielman and wilf are probably going to have to step in and handle this before it gets too late. Because it seems Zim is way too loyal to his buddy to make a move. Lets shurmur handle the playcalling. Or even scott but ffs get this dude outta here. seriously.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:06 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Mothman wrote:

If they trade for Staley or Thomas and adding a tackle doesn't turn out to be the secret ingredient that wins them the Super Bowl, isn't the season a "waste" by the standards you're applying above anyway?


This is the key point, we saw what kind of terrible shape the 2009/2010 all in idea left this team in for 2011 and beyond. It's very short sighted to think we have to do whatever it takes to salvage this year with no regard for the next couple years and what a waste those will be if a big trade doesn't work out.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:38 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Purple Martin wrote:
Our coaches can't do anything with anybody they've had for the last 3 years. Everything has changed at one time or another (or all at once) except two things: the top offensive coach and the results. When you change all the variables except one and get the same or worse result, you have isolated a key problem. Coaching. Norv Turner needs to go, and he needs to go now. We have nothing to lose because we can't get any worse.


Very well said. Seriously, folks, is there really any question about Turner not getting the job done three years later? Turner's time has passed by. It's not dishonorable for that to happen, as it is merely a symptom of being around for a long time in the NFL. It's happened to other coaches and coordinators, and now it's happened to Norv.

One of the most frustrating parts of the offense, aside from the remarkably leaky offensive line, has been the team's inability to utilize players according to their strengths. The offense has to toss Norv's system out the window. Sam Bradford has become uncomfortable, the WRs oftentimes run routes conflicting with a porous OL, some of the offensive weapons aren't getting proper playing time, and the running game is nonexistent. But given the overall skill player talent available, especially at WR, a decent coordinator with imagination should be able to get at least an average NFL performance from them.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:58 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
mondry wrote:
Mothman wrote:

If they trade for Staley or Thomas and adding a tackle doesn't turn out to be the secret ingredient that wins them the Super Bowl, isn't the season a "waste" by the standards you're applying above anyway?


This is the key point, we saw what kind of terrible shape the 2009/2010 all in idea left this team in for 2011 and beyond. It's very short sighted to think we have to do whatever it takes to salvage this year with no regard for the next couple years and what a waste those will be if a big trade doesn't work out.


I don't really see it as mortgaging the future at all. Our last 2 first round draft picks and our second round pick this year are all still sitting on the bench. The future is already here and not playing yet. That's the beauty of taking BPA on draft night - it opens up the door for important trades to help the short-term. Besides, being in a dire straights situation has already gotten us the best QB we've had since Favre and, before him, Culpepper... it could also land us the best LT we've had since McKinnie.

Also - it's not like we'd be trading for guys who are going to be retiring in the next year or two. Bradford could legitimately be our QB for the next 10 years. Staley or Thomas still have another good 4-5 years at least as well.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:35 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Anyone notice how bad the screen plays beat us last night? Why dont the Vikings ever run screen passes they throw it to asiata in the flats every once in a while but it rarely seems like they have a designed screen play.

That screen last night where they faked a trap run play with a guard pulling was beautiful.... I would love to see plays like that.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:36 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Norv Zimmer wrote:
Anyone notice how bad the screen plays beat us last night? Why dont the Vikings ever run screen passes they throw it to asiata in the flats every once in a while but it rarely seems like they have a designed screen play.

That screen last night where they faked a trap run play with a guard pulling was beautiful.... I would love to see plays like that.


We tried one last night and Bradford couldn't hold onto the ball long enough for the play to develop.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:37 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
losperros wrote:
Purple Martin wrote:
Our coaches can't do anything with anybody they've had for the last 3 years. Everything has changed at one time or another (or all at once) except two things: the top offensive coach and the results. When you change all the variables except one and get the same or worse result, you have isolated a key problem. Coaching. Norv Turner needs to go, and he needs to go now. We have nothing to lose because we can't get any worse.


Very well said. Seriously, folks, is there really any question about Turner not getting the job done three years later? Turner's time has passed by. It's not dishonorable for that to happen, as it is merely a symptom of being around for a long time in the NFL. It's happened to other coaches and coordinators, and now it's happened to Norv.

One of the most frustrating parts of the offense, aside from the remarkably leaky offensive line, has been the team's inability to utilize players according to their strengths. The offense has to toss Norv's system out the window. Sam Bradford has become uncomfortable, the WRs oftentimes run routes conflicting with a porous OL, some of the offensive weapons aren't getting proper playing time, and the running game is nonexistent. But given the overall skill player talent available, especially at WR, a decent coordinator with imagination should be able to get at least an average NFL performance from them.



Add one more to this line of thinking. My suspicion is that Zimmer just doesn't feel as confident about his experience and knowledge on the offensive side of the ball to make the move that needs to be made: moving on from Norv. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's why he brought Shurmur in, just in case Norv stunk again this season, he'd have a plan B on staff already. Juxtaposed to our overall defensive evolution since Zimmer arrived, our offense has gone in the exact opposite direction. I have complete faith in Zim's philosophies and ideas on D and that he knows what kind of players he needs to execute it. On O, I don't get that feeling AT ALL (yes, I'm shouting! :whistle: ).

Among the many annoying Norvisms is something you mention here--that we have talent (especially at WR) that simply goes unused. We have Patterson, Diggs, Rudy, etc. and have first down from the three and Norv chooses to run Matt F'n Asiata up the middle, why? Because our OL is so dang elite and they will surely open up huge holes for this former lift operator to run through? Holy smokes, my wife thought I was nuts yelling this stuff at the TV last night. She's right. :lol:


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:37 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
It does look like the game may have passed Turner by a bit but I think the offensive problems run deeper and I'm not convinced replacing Norv Turner will solve them. I think this problem begins with Spielman and Zimmer and it needs to be solved at that level first. As far as I'm concerned, the bloom is off the rose with Zimmer. I like a lot of things about the man: his toughness, his leadership, his skill as a defensive play caller and game-planner are all admirable. He practically drips intensity but as I mentioned elsewhere, the Vikings have exchanged one set of problems for another. Once again, they're an extremely unbalanced team. On Zimmer's watch, the defense has risen and the offense has descended near the bottom of the league, where it continues to flirt with historic lows by both team and league standards. Last year the Vikes flirted with a team season low for TD passes. This year it's the running game that could end up being historically bad. It's certainly not all Zimmer's fault. Some of it's on Spielman and Turner and the players. Everyone has to share some portion of the blame. Injuries have been a factor too. Whoever is reading this can throw in all the usual caveats... the bottom line is Spielman hand-picked his HC. Together, they've put together this coaching staff, this roster, this offense. There are certain trends that have clearly emerged over the past 2.5 seasons: predictability on offense, poor OL play, lack of efficiency in the red zone, a tendency to get blown out 2-3 times a year because the defense falters and the offense proves completely incapable of producing, a sometimes baffling stubbornness when it comes to play calling and personnel, etc.. After 2.5 seasons, this is the offense they've built. I imagine they own that but they also need to be held accountable for it.

By "held accountable", I don't mean Zimmer should be fired. I just mean we shouldn't keep compartmentalizing blame. Sparano and even Turner are symptomatic of deeper problems. Replacing Turner after this season might be a good idea but if that happens, and if his replacement is going to be successful, a shift in philosophy is necessary. If Zimmer wants to field a defensive team with a complementary, run-oriented offense, they need to build accordingly. They brought in Turner, a coordinator who likes to use a power running game and complement it with an aggressive downfield passing game and then didn't build accordingly. They drafted a QB ill-suited to that approach and failed to build an OL that could really make that power running game sing or provide time for slower-developing, downfield passing plays. What we're seeing on offense seems like a failure from the top down, a failure of vision. To some extent, this offense is the price they're paying for building the defense and maybe over the next few years, they can build a team where both units are good but right now, if the idea was to open a championship window in year 3, it looks like they might have sabotaged their own efforts.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:37 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
The running game is nonexistent because the line can't open a hole to save themselves. The passing game has slowed because Bradford has zero time to throw. Out receivers are not the problem this year and neither is the QB. We are actually about 3 linemen from a super bowl. We are a horrible line and would need an average line to get there.

And yes I agree on Norv. It may be time to,live on, but geez you got to feel bad for Bradford of Norv leaves. He would have to,learn ANOTHER system. As many OCs as that guy has had you would think his brain would explode.

Our defense still,only have up 20 pts. Our offense again couldn't score more than 20 points. We are NOT going to fix this line this year unless we can get 2 decent linemen by today. And that's not happening. So prepare for a long offensive season.

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:37 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Texas Vike wrote:
Add one more to this line of thinking. My suspicion is that Zimmer just doesn't feel as confident about his experience and knowledge on the offensive side of the ball to make the move that needs to be made: moving on from Norv. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's why he brought Shurmur in, just in case Norv stunk again this season, he'd have a plan B on staff already. Juxtaposed to our overall defensive evolution since Zimmer arrived, our offense has gone in the exact opposite direction. I have complete faith in Zim's philosophies and ideas on D and that he knows what kind of players he needs to execute it. On O, I don't get that feeling AT ALL (yes, I'm shouting! :whistle: ).

Among the many annoying Norvisms is something you mention here--that we have talent (especially at WR) that simply goes unused. We have Patterson, Diggs, Rudy, etc. and have first down from the three and Norv chooses to run Matt F'n Asiata up the middle, why? Because our OL is so dang elite and they will surely open up huge holes for this former lift operator to run through? Holy smokes, my wife thought I was nuts yelling this stuff at the TV last night. She's right. :lol:


I know I keep hammering away at this point but after 2.5 years of this, I just can't see it as a Turner problem anymore. It's a Zimmer problem. Whether he's confident about his offensive knowledge or not, as the head coach he has to lay down the proverbial law and run his team. If he wants Turner to call something less predictable and more likely to succeed than running Asiata up the middle on 1st down, he needs to make that happen. Emphasize it in meetings, when formulating the game plan, in practice. Get on the headphones when it's first and goal and let Turner know what he wants to see!


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:47 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
germannorseman wrote:
The running game is nonexistent because the line can't open a hole to save themselves. The passing game has slowed because Bradford has zero time to throw. Out receivers are not the problem this year and neither is the QB. We are actually about 3 linemen from a super bowl. We are a horrible line and would need an average line to get there.

And yes I agree on Norv. It may be time to,live on, but geez you got to feel bad for Bradford of Norv leaves. He would have to,learn ANOTHER system. As many OCs as that guy has had you would think his brain would explode.

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Bradford would more than likely team up with his old coordinator Pat Shurmur. Who is already on our coaching staff. So it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal.


Last edited by halfgiz on Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:52 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Add one more to this line of thinking. My suspicion is that Zimmer just doesn't feel as confident about his experience and knowledge on the offensive side of the ball to make the move that needs to be made: moving on from Norv. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's why he brought Shurmur in, just in case Norv stunk again this season, he'd have a plan B on staff already. Juxtaposed to our overall defensive evolution since Zimmer arrived, our offense has gone in the exact opposite direction. I have complete faith in Zim's philosophies and ideas on D and that he knows what kind of players he needs to execute it. On O, I don't get that feeling AT ALL (yes, I'm shouting! :whistle: ).

Among the many annoying Norvisms is something you mention here--that we have talent (especially at WR) that simply goes unused. We have Patterson, Diggs, Rudy, etc. and have first down from the three and Norv chooses to run Matt F'n Asiata up the middle, why? Because our OL is so dang elite and they will surely open up huge holes for this former lift operator to run through? Holy smokes, my wife thought I was nuts yelling this stuff at the TV last night. She's right. :lol:


I know I keep hammering away at this point but after 2.5 years of this, I just can't see it as a Turner problem anymore. It's a Zimmer problem. Whether he's confident about his offensive knowledge or not, as the head coach he has to lay down the proverbial law and run his team. If he wants Turner to call something less predictable and more likely to succeed than running Asiata up the middle on 1st down, he needs to make that happen. Emphasize it in meetings, when formulating the game plan, in practice. Get on the headphones when it's first and goal and let Turner know what he wants to see!


I agree, in general, with your take, Jim. We're both speculating here. I mean, how do you know that Zimmer hasn't done precisely what you're saying? Perhaps because it hasn't manifested on the field? My guess is that when Norv was hired Zim told him the O was his. He fully handed the reins over to him. It's time to take them back. If Norv can't work like that, hit the highway. If he can, let's see how the rest of the season goes.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Texas Vike wrote:
I agree, in general, with your take, Jim. We're both speculating here. I mean, how do you know that Zimmer hasn't done precisely what you're saying? Perhaps because it hasn't manifested on the field?


Exactly, although obviously there's an underlying assumption there.

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My guess is that when Norv was hired Zim told him the O was his. He fully handed the reins over to him. It's time to take them back. If Norv can't work like that, hit the highway. If he can, let's see how the rest of the season goes.


Well said!


Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:35 pm
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Post Re: It's panic time
I don't think we will be able to fairly evaluate ANY OC until the GM does HIS job....people say "why aren't we running screen plays".....well, a screen requires perhaps 3 second of pass protection to let it evolve....Bradford hasn't had more then 1.5 seconds in quite some time. "why isn't Asiata finding that ONE hole I saw on that play?" well, Asiata has 2 guys on top of him the second after he takes the ball....literally......

Turner likes to have a lot of players capable of being moving pieces and masking his calls. That's fine and dandy but none of it works without a front line.....We can replace our coaches as much as we like but no coach will succeed until Spielman does HIS job.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
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Post Re: It's panic time
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I didn't know you could "shout" on a message board. I use all caps in plenty of my posts and have for quite some time now but that's besides the point.


Generally speaking, using all caps on the internet is considered "shouting". It's not a big deal. If you want to keep doing it, that's fine. I just wanted you to be aware that's how it tends to be perceived.

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Bottom line is, I'm not laying down if I'm Zim and Spielman. You go out and you do something about it. Don't let a team with this much potential crap the bed


I don't think they should lay down either. My point was just that they need to proceed wisely, considering all factors.


Understandable. Can we use the word "stressing" instead of shouting? :lol:

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm
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Post Re: It's panic time
mondry wrote:
Mothman wrote:

If they trade for Staley or Thomas and adding a tackle doesn't turn out to be the secret ingredient that wins them the Super Bowl, isn't the season a "waste" by the standards you're applying above anyway?


This is the key point, we saw what kind of terrible shape the 2009/2010 all in idea left this team in for 2011 and beyond. It's very short sighted to think we have to do whatever it takes to salvage this year with no regard for the next couple years and what a waste those will be if a big trade doesn't work out.


See, IMO, the 09/10 seasons arent even comparable to this one. That team was OLD. Very old. This team is the complete opposite. We have nobody leaving on the defense next year. So it's basically what we have now with another year of experience. And to add on to that, we drafted for depth last year. Remember that since 2012, we've done nothing but fill major holes on this team. This team has enough talent on the roster to start taking BPA. We didnt NEED Treadwell or Alexander. Clearly because neither of them are really seeing the field. We could have went OL but if you look, the only OT to go in the next two rounds after we picked Laquon was Spriggs in the 2nd. So clearly the depth outside of round 1 was limited. That is why I am seeing we need to do something before this deadline because if we dont, we go into next year with two holes at tackle and have no first round pick.

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Post Re: It's panic time
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Add one more to this line of thinking. My suspicion is that Zimmer just doesn't feel as confident about his experience and knowledge on the offensive side of the ball to make the move that needs to be made: moving on from Norv. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's why he brought Shurmur in, just in case Norv stunk again this season, he'd have a plan B on staff already. Juxtaposed to our overall defensive evolution since Zimmer arrived, our offense has gone in the exact opposite direction. I have complete faith in Zim's philosophies and ideas on D and that he knows what kind of players he needs to execute it. On O, I don't get that feeling AT ALL (yes, I'm shouting! :whistle: ).

Among the many annoying Norvisms is something you mention here--that we have talent (especially at WR) that simply goes unused. We have Patterson, Diggs, Rudy, etc. and have first down from the three and Norv chooses to run Matt F'n Asiata up the middle, why? Because our OL is so dang elite and they will surely open up huge holes for this former lift operator to run through? Holy smokes, my wife thought I was nuts yelling this stuff at the TV last night. She's right. :lol:


I know I keep hammering away at this point but after 2.5 years of this, I just can't see it as a Turner problem anymore. It's a Zimmer problem. Whether he's confident about his offensive knowledge or not, as the head coach he has to lay down the proverbial law and run his team. If he wants Turner to call something less predictable and more likely to succeed than running Asiata up the middle on 1st down, he needs to make that happen. Emphasize it in meetings, when formulating the game plan, in practice. Get on the headphones when it's first and goal and let Turner know what he wants to see!


Not only that, but we don't know how much influence Zimmer has on the offense or offensive gameplan. Like Jim has pointed out, he's the head coach so even if he doesn't know what's going on with the offense ... that's worse, isn't it? Plus, he's a guy that thinks it's important for the players from both sides of the ball to understand the other (the random quizzing in meetings we heard so much about). I don't think Zimmer just threw the keys to Norv and said "here, do what you think is best".

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Post Re: It's panic time
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Bradford would more than likely team up with his old coordinator Pat Shurmur. Who is already on our coaching staff. So it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal.


Sam has excelled under Shurmer like no other. It still doesn't take care of this horrendous o-line. But I think if anyone could utilize the best of Bradford to overcome it, it would be Pat.


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Post Re: It's panic time
Our team is No. 1 in defense. Zimmer isn't doing anything wrong besides that stupid challenge and the obvious, FIRE Turner.
We're what? 31st in the league for offense, I don't think it will be detrimental if we fire turner and promote shurmur or his son. Our offensive line is terrible, but the #### play calling doesn't #### help it. That drive when we were near goal line and he ran asiata 3 straight times right up the gut drove me crazy.
How does this offense play amazing while Bradford had only been on the team for 14 days and then progressively become worse as he learns the playbook more?

Do what needs to be done, and frankly, should have been done at the end of last season. Fire Turner.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:27 pm
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Post Re: It's panic time
mondry wrote:
Mothman wrote:

If they trade for Staley or Thomas and adding a tackle doesn't turn out to be the secret ingredient that wins them the Super Bowl, isn't the season a "waste" by the standards you're applying above anyway?


This is the key point, we saw what kind of terrible shape the 2009/2010 all in idea left this team in for 2011 and beyond. It's very short sighted to think we have to do whatever it takes to salvage this year with no regard for the next couple years and what a waste those will be if a big trade doesn't work out.


That isn't the only history that suggests such an approach is short-sighted and likely to fail. Just go back to the trade for Herschel Walker and it should be obvious that these moves rarely pay off.

The Vikes got to 5-0 with a simple formula - play lights-out on defense and mistake-free on offense. If they get back to executing that formula they'll start winning again. If they don't, or can't for some reason, then we should all accept the obvious fact that this isn't the version of the Vikings destined for greatness, try to enjoy the rest of the season, and hope Spielman and Zimmer can find a way to grow the team so that next year the obvious flaws are addressed and the team is solid and can truly compete for a title. This year's team is severely flawed for a variety of reasons (and to be fair to Spielman and Zimmer, not all of those reasons could be anticipated when the season began), so they're going to have to play essentially perfectly to go very far. They've shown they can play that way, though, so all hope is not lost provided they can get back to executing their winning formula.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:35 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Cliff wrote:

I don't think Zimmer just threw the keys to Norv and said "here, do what you think is best".



I actually think that is pretty much what he's done. Though, to run with your car analogy, I think of it as a driver's ed automobile and Zimmer is the instructor with his own brakes just in case Norv veers wildly into other lanes. :lol:


Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:15 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Mothman wrote:
By "held accountable", I don't mean Zimmer should be fired. I just mean we shouldn't keep compartmentalizing blame. Sparano and even Turner are symptomatic of deeper problems. Replacing Turner after this season might be a good idea but if that happens, and if his replacement is going to be successful, a shift in philosophy is necessary. If Zimmer wants to field a defensive team with a complementary, run-oriented offense, they need to build accordingly. They brought in Turner, a coordinator who likes to use a power running game and complement it with an aggressive downfield passing game and then didn't build accordingly. They drafted a QB ill-suited to that approach and failed to build an OL that could really make that power running game sing or provide time for slower-developing, downfield passing plays. What we're seeing on offense seems like a failure from the top down, a failure of vision. To some extent, this offense is the price they're paying for building the defense and maybe over the next few years, they can build a team where both units are good but right now, if the idea was to open a championship window in year 3, it looks like they might have sabotaged their own efforts.


Interesting post and nice read. Thanks, Jim.

Okay, Turner has just resigned. Now it's time for Zimmer to really take charge. As Denny Green once told his team: "We will not have lax offense!" I'm hoping Zimmer does the same. I don't hate Turner but he had a job to do and he couldn't get it done. It's time for everyone, including Zimmer and the players, to do their freakin' jobs. That's what they're getting paid for. Otherwise, they should be expendable. Time for some tough love, Coach!


Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:51 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
losperros wrote:
Interesting post and nice read. Thanks, Jim.


Thanks. :)

Quote:
Okay, Turner has just resigned. Now it's time for Zimmer to really take charge. As Denny Green once told his team: "We will not have lax offense!" I'm hoping Zimmer does the same. I don't hate Turner but he had a job to do and he couldn't get it done. It's time for everyone, including Zimmer and the players, to do their freakin' jobs. That's what they're getting paid for. Otherwise, they should be expendable. Time for some tough love, Coach!


:thumbsup:


Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:29 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Curious to see what changes in the coming 4 weeks. Do we start seeing more Treadwell? (We sure could use his physicality in the red zone...)

Also interested to see what happens with the protection. FWIW, I'm not sure we are going to see some total transformation. Let's see if this makes a difference.

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Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:55 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
There is a bunch of talk on reddit about a conspiracy theory that pat shurmur did the play calling for the first 4 games for bardford, then after the bye week turner took over.

Either way , in the last 31 drives we have had 3 TDS, so I'm curious to see how Shurmur does. Lions are next and I actually think they are very good, just not winning the close games.


Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:09 am
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Post Re: It's panic time
Texas Vike wrote:
Cliff wrote:

I don't think Zimmer just threw the keys to Norv and said "here, do what you think is best".



I actually think that is pretty much what he's done. Though, to run with your car analogy, I think of it as a driver's ed automobile and Zimmer is the instructor with his own brakes just in case Norv veers wildly into other lanes. :lol:



My suspicion proved accurate. In his post-Norv resignation presser Zimmer says: "Since Norv has been here I've given him almost 100% free will on everything they've done offensively."

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 802bc89611

(@ about 2:50 mark)


Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:37 pm
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