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 Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem 
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
S197 wrote:
I'm okay with the approach I think the failure was in scouting.


I'm OK with the approach too, but I don't think the failure was in scouting per se. If we're simply talking about last weekend's performance by the offensive line, to me that looks more like a failure in adjustment and execution in a particular game rather than an indictment of the entire philosophy taken by the GM and head coach over the last several years.


Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
S197 wrote:
I thought about it for a while and I think this is the issue. Some feel as though the line was neglected, that there was no plan or focus on remedying the problem (or at least a poor one). A knock on Spielman's philosophy as I believe Jim put it. This is what I have to disagree with because I think they did focus on the line, look no further than the added coaching, personnel, and the amount of money spent.


None of those factors (coaching, personnel, money spent) alters my view that it was a poor plan. It's not simply neglect. They've spent resources on the line but I don't think they've done so very wisely and I think that point is underscored by how much they've spent and how bad they've been.

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And I think it was a fairly reasonable plan given their options. They brought in competition at nearly every position and drafted 4th rounders to play back ups. And I think part of this was not only to get the best guy on the field but also to address the potential injury issue. However, I don't think anyone could have foreseen the amount of injuries that hit. Hence my comment on context.

Jim mentioned quality and I think this is where we can get on the same page. I think really where the "philosophy" has failed has been in the scouting dept. If you look at the flip side of the line, we're getting great production out of "scrap heap" picks (Robison, Griffen, Stephen, etc.). So to me, it really isn't about the strategy as the same strategy is employed at other positions, it's just that the picks have been rather poor. To me that's a ding on scouting. A big one, but also a bit of hindsight.

Yes, people have been saying our line has been bad for years. People have also said our receivers were garbage, our DB's were bad, our run defense was bad, etc. But take it further than that, okay the line is bad so who shouldn't have been drafted? Saying we should have put more high round picks into the O-line has negative consequences as well, which seems to get glossed over.

Tl;dr - I'm okay with the approach I think the failure was in scouting.


I agree that some of the failure lies in scouting. I think some of it lies in philosophy as well and there's probably a relationship between the two. Both fall firmly under Spielman's jurisdiction. I still disagree about hindsight because even when it comes to the poor picks, that's been going on long enough that the failure of their philosophy has been apparent for many years (and thus, the need to change the approach has too).

I've addressed the cost of investing more first and second day picks on OL in the past. Basically, I'm fine with it, including the consequences. As I said above, i believe it should be a high priority because blocking is fundamental to success on offense. I think it's an area to address early in a rebuild, not at the end.

Another part of this whole equation lies in how draft picks are used and the high cost of failure with those early round picks. Trades impact the number of choices available in positive and negative ways. Repeatedly missing on first and second day players (QBs, for example) has a high cost because every miss means future resources have to be spent in the effort to address those positions. This gets back to scouting but also to player development and philosophy. All of this stuff is interrelated. I recognize it's not simple.


Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
I thought about it for a while and I think this is the issue. Some feel as though the line was neglected, that there was no plan or focus on remedying the problem (or at least a poor one). A knock on Spielman's philosophy as I believe Jim put it. This is what I have to disagree with because I think they did focus on the line, look no further than the added coaching, personnel, and the amount of money spent.


None of those factors (coaching, personnel, money spent) alters my view that it was a poor plan. It's not simply neglect. They've spent resources on the line but I don't think they've done so very wisely and I think that point is underscored by how much they've spent and how bad they've been.


Let's just say for kicks and giggles that the Vikings go on to win the remainder of their games, finish 15-1, and go on to win the Superbowl. Let's say the OL performs adequately the rest of the way out. Forget how likely that is for a second, but let's say it happens.

Does your position change if the outcome is not what you expect based on what you observe right now? Would you still say that Spielman blew it if the above happens?


Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
The #Seahawks have failed to score a TD in half of their games this season. And they're the Vegas favorite to win the NFC.


Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
halfgiz wrote:
The #Seahawks have failed to score a TD in half of their games this season. And they're the Vegas favorite to win the NFC.


No the Vikings OL is still the weak link.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
halfgiz wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
The #Seahawks have failed to score a TD in half of their games this season. And they're the Vegas favorite to win the NFC.


No the Vikings OL is still the weak link.

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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
S197 wrote:
I thought about it for a while and I think this is the issue. Some feel as though the line was neglected, that there was no plan or focus on remedying the problem (or at least a poor one). A knock on Spielman's philosophy as I believe Jim put it. This is what I have to disagree with because I think they did focus on the line, look no further than the added coaching, personnel, and the amount of money spent. And I think it was a fairly reasonable plan given their options. They brought in competition at nearly every position and drafted 4th rounders to play back ups. And I think part of this was not only to get the best guy on the field but also to address the potential injury issue. However, I don't think anyone could have foreseen the amount of injuries that hit. Hence my comment on context.

Jim mentioned quality and I think this is where we can get on the same page. I think really where the "philosophy" has failed has been in the scouting dept. If you look at the flip side of the line, we're getting great production out of "scrap heap" picks (Robison, Griffen, Stephen, etc.). So to me, it really isn't about the strategy as the same strategy is employed at other positions, it's just that the picks have been rather poor. To me that's a ding on scouting. A big one, but also a bit of hindsight.

Yes, people have been saying our line has been bad for years. People have also said our receivers were garbage, our DB's were bad, our run defense was bad, etc. But take it further than that, okay the line is bad so who shouldn't have been drafted? Saying we should have put more high round picks into the O-line has negative consequences as well, which seems to get glossed over.

Tl;dr - I'm okay with the approach I think the failure was in scouting.


1. Re: "Scrap heap," since I was the one to use the term and it seems to have ruffled feathers, let me explain more clearly what I meant. If you go back to my initial post I state clearly that I'm referring to the talent they brought in to create competition, all of whom were UDFAs, 7th rounders, or guys that were rumored to be about to get cut but instead we picked up in a trade (Sirles/ Easton). Our philosophy seemed to me to be "We don't really know what were doing here so we're opting for quantity over quality and hoping that out of all these bodies someone emerges". Which leads to...

2. I completely agree that scouting (even coaching) is a major problem here. Compare the DRASTIC improvement in our secondary to the situation w/ our OL. Since Zimmer came, we've seen a remarkable improvement in our secondary. He has a vision. To realize it, he's committed significant draft picks and FA pick ups. And it has paid dividends. Another worthwhile comparison is the DL (which you've made). I would argue that they've managed to be successful with a lower-investment strategy precisely because Zimmer knows what the heck he's doing and what he's looking for. He knows to snag a Danielle Hunter. I think our scouts have done well to acquire (and recognize the talent of) Everson G, Shamar Stephen, Robison, etc. Great investment in Linval too. We've made smart moves on this line, pretty much the exact opposite of our uninformed approach with the OL.


Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:37 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
VikingLord wrote:
Let's just say for kicks and giggles that the Vikings go on to win the remainder of their games, finish 15-1, and go on to win the Superbowl. Let's say the OL performs adequately the rest of the way out. Forget how likely that is for a second, but let's say it happens.

Does your position change if the outcome is not what you expect based on what you observe right now? Would you still say that Spielman blew it if the above happens?


It disappoints me that you'd even ask that question. :(

I'm criticizing the team's failure to build a quality o-line because, to my eyes, it seems like a pretty clear failure. I'm not biased about it. I wish the situation were better. However, I obviously think the OL could be enough of a problem to prevent them winning the Super Bowl and if I recall correctly, you've said the same thing so why the test?

If the Vikings run the table and win it all, I think that would speak for itself.


Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Texas Vike wrote:
1. Re: "Scrap heap," since I was the one to use the term and it seems to have ruffled feathers, let me explain more clearly what I meant. If you go back to my initial post I state clearly that I'm referring to the talent they brought in to create competition, all of whom were UDFAs, 7th rounders, or guys that were rumored to be about to get cut but instead we picked up in a trade (Sirles/ Easton). Our philosophy seemed to me to be "We don't really know what were doing here so we're opting for quantity over quality and hoping that out of all these bodies someone emerges". Which leads to...

2. I completely agree that scouting (even coaching) is a major problem here. Compare the DRASTIC improvement in our secondary to the situation w/ our OL. Since Zimmer came, we've seen a remarkable improvement in our secondary. He has a vision. To realize it, he's committed significant draft picks and FA pick ups. And it has paid dividends. Another worthwhile comparison is the DL (which you've made). I would argue that they've managed to be successful with a lower-investment strategy precisely because Zimmer knows what the heck he's doing and what he's looking for. He knows to snag a Danielle Hunter. I think our scouts have done well to acquire (and recognize the talent of) Everson G, Shamar Stephen, Robison, etc. Great investment in Linval too. We've made smart moves on this line, pretty much the exact opposite of our uninformed approach with the OL.


Excellent point and people may recall that when Zimmer was hired, he met with Spielman and the scouts to explain what he was looking for in players. Since his expertise is in defense and, as you said, he has a vision for that unit, it's not surprising that they've found some good mid-to-late round defenders like Hunter and Stephen as well as both high-profile free agents and free agents like Tom Johnson, most of whom have fit pretty well into the defense.

There seems little, if any, clear vision for the offense in the Zimmer era and it shows.


Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
S197 wrote:
Lets look at the other side of the trenches. We have 3 healthy DT's. That's it. Tom Johnson (and Robison at times) are the backups with Floyd injured. Lets not forget Linval was injured for some of last season as well. So if Linval gets hurt, we're starting Tom Johnson and Shamar Stephen with Toby Johnson coming off the practice squad. Is that adequate depth? Those are all "throw away" picks.

Same with the DE's, we have a solid backup in Hunter but then it's Trattou and your pick of a practice squad guy. Is that adequate depth? Lets keep in mind that D-lines rotate a lot more than O-lines so if anything, they utilize more players.

That depth looks a little thin to me. Same with safety, Harrison goes down and we're starting Kearse and Harris with maybe Terrence Newman as your emergency guy. That's a 7th rounder and an undrafted as our depth!

My point is this is the NFL so the phrase "adequate depth" is often used here in some sort of opaque sort of way. It's a misnomer. Now, that's not to say there are no issues with the O-line, one could argue even the starters had they not gotten injured are shaky. But that's different than depth, and I feel as though the whole depth issue is driven by hindsight. No one has a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rounders waiting in the wings to step in if guys get hurt. Guys get hurt and you're starting late round guys. That is my point. Criticism is deserved but context also needs to be kept.


:appl:

The solution would have been cut the entire Oline and all their salaries and sign 20 or so offensive linemen? You are 100% correct. they have played 4 teams with 15 or more sacks, 3 in the top 10 overall and this eagles game was the only one where bradford was assaulted badly. Yeah he's taken some hits but this game was more than bad, its hard to believe it will continue all season. You can't predict they would all go down. Load retiring. Everyone has injury issues but to that extent is rare, on one unit. Zim loads up on defense. Thats what he does, they go and get a 1st rd wr and this idiot turner probably confuses the hell out of him with his stupid playbook and he doesn't see the field. I'd be willing to bet my right testicle that if he ended up on new england right now he would have 5 touchdowns by week 12. and thats not because of just brady. This offensive coordinator is sabotaging this team and it's pissing me off.

We just gotta sit back and hope they can protect just enough to score enough. This defense is the most ravenous i have ever seen in my entire time watching this team play. I wasn't around for the old teams but I believe they will come through all season.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Boon wrote:
:appl:

The solution would have been cut the entire Oline and all their salaries and sign 20 or so offensive linemen? You are 100% correct. they have played 4 teams with 15 or more sacks, 3 in the top 10 overall and this eagles game was the only one where bradford was assaulted badly. Yeah he's taken some hits but this game was more than bad, its hard to believe it will continue all season. You can't predict they would all go down. Load retiring. Everyone has injury issues but to that extent is rare, on one unit. Zim loads up on defense. Thats what he does, they go and get a 1st rd wr and this idiot turner probably confuses the hell out of him with his stupid playbook and he doesn't see the field. I'd be willing to bet my right testicle that if he ended up on new england right now he would have 5 touchdowns by week 12. and thats not because of just brady. This offensive coordinator is sabotaging this team and it's pissing me off.


... and the head coach has no control over how his team's offense is run?


Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:25 am
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Mothman wrote:
Boon wrote:
:appl:

The solution would have been cut the entire Oline and all their salaries and sign 20 or so offensive linemen? You are 100% correct. they have played 4 teams with 15 or more sacks, 3 in the top 10 overall and this eagles game was the only one where bradford was assaulted badly. Yeah he's taken some hits but this game was more than bad, its hard to believe it will continue all season. You can't predict they would all go down. Load retiring. Everyone has injury issues but to that extent is rare, on one unit. Zim loads up on defense. Thats what he does, they go and get a 1st rd wr and this idiot turner probably confuses the hell out of him with his stupid playbook and he doesn't see the field. I'd be willing to bet my right testicle that if he ended up on new england right now he would have 5 touchdowns by week 12. and thats not because of just brady. This offensive coordinator is sabotaging this team and it's pissing me off.


... and the head coach has no control over how his team's offense is run?


Yes, the head coach *should* have control over the offense. He sure is supposed to have control. After reading and hearing some interviews with Zimmer, I'm beginning to believe he's fed up with the lax offense, including the poor play by the offensive line.

Still, I agree with Boon about Norv being a big problem for an offense not fitting the so-called system. That's where Zimmer really needs to step in and be the controlling point. The Vikings offense needs to adapt its shortcomings and play to their strengths. It's not impossible. Other teams do it.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
losperros wrote:
Yes, the head coach *should* have control over the offense. He sure is supposed to have control. After reading and hearing some interviews with Zimmer, I'm beginning to believe he's fed up with the lax offense, including the poor play by the offensive line.


I sure hope he's fed up with it. I know I am. :)

Quote:
Still, I agree with Boon about Norv being a big problem for an offense not fitting the so-called system. That's where Zimmer really needs to step in and be the controlling point. The Vikings offense needs to adapt its shortcomings and play to their strengths. It's not impossible. Other teams do it.


It's not impossible at all and I agree, Turner's been a problem at times, although he's also done some smart things. Overall, the results haven't been good on offense and it seems like there's a lot of compartmentalization going amongst Vikes fans when it comes to that subject. Zimmer is often given a pass for the offense while Turner gets raked over the coals but as you said, Zimmer is supposed to have control over the offense. As far as I'm concerned, it's problems are his problems, as surely as he's primarily responsible for the team's excellent defense. I have to wonder if Turner's taking his cues from Zimmer in the first place because after all, Zimmer's the head coach. This offense has been pretty conservative since he took over, more conservative than the typical Turner offense. Some of that may have to do with personnel but I suspect some of it comes from the way Zimmer wants to play football too.

I will now prepare to be flogged. :)


Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
I think given Zimmer's defensive strength and being a new HC, he was right to delegate responsibilities to Turner. As he gains experience and comfort, he should start to become more involved in the offense.

I look at football like a corporation. You have the Board (Wilfs), CEO (Spielman), President (Zimmer), then your CFO/COO (coordinators). Leadership is supposed to set an overall vision and strategy, which is then delegated downwards for execution. The top doesn't have time to scrutinize at the granular level and needs to rely on his/her trusted inner circle for this level of detail. I think with Zimmer, the overall strategy is mental toughness, play as a team, and be accountable. We've seen the toughness, he's often dismissed individual awards, and he has also been upfront when he makes bad calls/mistakes.

Now that the "corporate culture" has been set, I think the next step is to review the performance of those under him and whether or not they meet expectations.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Mothman wrote:
VikingLord wrote:
Let's just say for kicks and giggles that the Vikings go on to win the remainder of their games, finish 15-1, and go on to win the Superbowl. Let's say the OL performs adequately the rest of the way out. Forget how likely that is for a second, but let's say it happens.

Does your position change if the outcome is not what you expect based on what you observe right now? Would you still say that Spielman blew it if the above happens?


It disappoints me that you'd even ask that question. :(

I'm criticizing the team's failure to build a quality o-line because, to my eyes, it seems like a pretty clear failure. I'm not biased about it. I wish the situation were better. However, I obviously think the OL could be enough of a problem to prevent them winning the Super Bowl and if I recall correctly, you've said the same thing so why the test?

If the Vikings run the table and win it all, I think that would speak for itself.


I have said the same thing, but I'm not as inclined to indict the entire plan based on this last game. Plus, to be fair to Spielman and the Vikings, they had a few curveballs thrown their way this season so far, including the early retirement of Loadholt, 2 key injuries to starting offensive lineman, the loss of their starting QB and starting RB. I mean, holding their feet to the fire can be justified at some level I suppose, but a lot of this stuff could not be anticipated or planned around very well and I think most teams would be struggling under similar circumstances.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
VikingLord wrote:
I have said the same thing, but I'm not as inclined to indict the entire plan based on this last game.


I'm not either.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
The defense is ranked #1 and the offense is ranked 31th that speaks volumes. Last year offense 29th.
Our problem is a combination of Rick,Norv & some bad luck with injuries.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:11 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
I've said this a dozen times if I've said it once, but here we go again.

Rick Spielman's philosophy for the offensive line is not like the Dallas Cowboys, who expend one first-round pick after another on linemen. The Vikings simply don't do that. They draft linemen primarily in the middle rounds and try to develop the players. This is not an uncommon draft philosophy around the NFL. It's just not.

Why do the Vikings do this? It's hard to understand motivations, but to me, Matt Kalil is a perfect example. He was "can't miss" at No. 4 overall, and he had a brilliant rookie season that culminated in a Pro Bowl appearance. The rest of his career ... a complete waste of a first-round pick. Drafting linemen is a huge hit-and-miss proposition, perhaps more than any other position.

Some of you may DISAGREE with that philosophy, and that's perfectly fine. Heck, I'm not even sure how I feel about it. But to say the Vikings have done NOTHING about the offensive line simply isn't true. They've addressed talent, and they've addressed depth. They just haven't done it in the specific WAY that some of you want them to do.

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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
They just haven't done it in the specific WAY that some of you want them to do.


I am not concerned so much with style points as I am with results.

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Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I've said this a dozen times if I've said it once, but here we go again.

Some of you may DISAGREE with that philosophy, and that's perfectly fine. Heck, I'm not even sure how I feel about it. But to say the Vikings have done NOTHING about the offensive line simply isn't true. They've addressed talent, and they've addressed depth. They just haven't done it in the specific WAY that some of you want them to do.


Look at the results...something needs to change.

Look how the defense has turned it around in 3 years. The offense is stagnate.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
halfgiz wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I've said this a dozen times if I've said it once, but here we go again.

Some of you may DISAGREE with that philosophy, and that's perfectly fine. Heck, I'm not even sure how I feel about it. But to say the Vikings have done NOTHING about the offensive line simply isn't true. They've addressed talent, and they've addressed depth. They just haven't done it in the specific WAY that some of you want them to do.


Look at the results...something needs to change.

Look how the defense has turned it around in 3 years. The offense is stagnate.



That's just it. The philosophy is both understandable and justifiable but it hasn't yielded the necessary results and when that happens (and it's been happening too long) the approach needs to change.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
For the vikings to do anything in free agency to shore up the offensive line, they are going to have to do something about the contracts of bradford and Peterson. in 2017 they will combine for a whopping 35 million in cap space. THIS doesn't include an extension for Xavier Rhodes that of course should be in the works. Unless some other team takes a flier on Khalil, you're almost going to have to bring him back, look at another tackle in free agency as well as the draft. LUCKILY the core of the team should remain in tact with no glaring issues outside of the O Line.


Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:55 am
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
one of the things that annoys me most about our approach to the OL is that we've thrown a lot of money at it. Our investments have been exceptionally poor here, I'd have to think a smart overhauling of the line would free up major cash. Anyone with a good handle on the team's finances here?


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Texas Vike wrote:
one of the things that annoys me most about our approach to the OL is that we've thrown a lot of money at it. Our investments have been exceptionally poor here, I'd have to think a smart overhauling of the line would free up major cash. Anyone with a good handle on the team's finances here?


Kalil is costing them $11,096,000 this season and will be a UFA in 2017.

Boone signed a 4 year, $26,800,000 contract. His cap hit in each year of the deal is $6,700,000.

Berger's cap hit this season is $1,610,000. Next year (the last year of his contract) it's $1,880,000.

Fusco's cap hit this year is $4,050,000. It goes up from here to $4.8 million in 2017 and is basically $5.8 in each of the following 2 seasons. his "dead cap" money goes down after this year to $1.6 M in 2017 and $800,000 in 2018 so after this season, it becomes easier to cut him if the Vikes want to go that route.

Smith signed a one year deal and his cap hit is $3,468,750.

Clemmings is on his rookie contract and not costing much. Harris is a UFA after this season. neither are making much in NFL terms.

I think the rest of the OL contracts are minimal by NFL standards.

Further along these lines:

http://www.foxsports.com/north/story/mi ... ord-102716

Quote:
The Vikings didn't draft an offensive lineman until the fourth round, when they took guard Willie Beavers. He was released before the start of the regular season, before being added to the practice squad and elevated to the active roster after the injuries piled up.

They spent money, though, by signing Boone and right tackle Andre Smith. With Smith and left tackle Matt Kalil on injured reserve and another starter from last year, Mike Harris, out indefinitely with an illness, the Vikings have the third-highest allocation of their salary-cap figure to the offensive line in the league.


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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Something else I'm struggling understanding is the handling of the receivers.
First it was Patterson, now Wright who was a 450yd receiver last year. Not to mention Treadwell doesn't even have a catch this season. Might as well have spent that 1st round on OT.

Anybody care to explain to me what's going on with the receivers?

If they wouldn't have Kalil our offensive cap space wouldn't look bad.


Last edited by halfgiz on Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
halfgiz wrote:
Something else I'm struggling understanding is the handling of the receivers.
First it was Patterson, now Wright who was our leading receiver last year. Not to mention Treadwell doesn't even have a catch this season. Might as well have spent that 1st round on OT.

Anybody care to explain to me what's going on with the receivers?


I have no idea. I was baffled by the way they handled Patterson and I'm baffled by the way they've handled Wright this year. Treadwell's a rookie so maybe they just feel he has too much left to learn. :confused:

The way the Vikes have handled the QB position over the years confuses me too.

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If they would have got rid of Kalil our offensive cap space wouldn't look bad.


True, but they wouldn't have had a decent left tackle (not that they do anyway!).


Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
halfgiz wrote:
Something else I'm struggling understanding is the handling of the receivers.
First it was Patterson, now Wright who was a 450yd receiver last year. Not to mention Treadwell doesn't even have a catch this season. Might as well have spent that 1st round on OT.

Anybody care to explain to me what's going on with the receivers?

If they wouldn't have Kalil our offensive cap space wouldn't look bad.


I think Wright has just been outplayed by Thielen. They are both good route runners but Thielen has more size to go with the speed. He also has really good hands. He seems like a better compliment to Diggs. No idea what's going on with Treadwell but the staff have been known to not throw rookie's in right away unless necessary. With Patterson's concussion, perhaps this is the week we see meaningful snaps from Treadwell.


Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:00 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Mothman wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I've said this a dozen times if I've said it once, but here we go again.

Some of you may DISAGREE with that philosophy, and that's perfectly fine. Heck, I'm not even sure how I feel about it. But to say the Vikings have done NOTHING about the offensive line simply isn't true. They've addressed talent, and they've addressed depth. They just haven't done it in the specific WAY that some of you want them to do.


Look at the results...something needs to change.

Look how the defense has turned it around in 3 years. The offense is stagnate.



That's just it. The philosophy is both understandable and justifiable but it hasn't yielded the necessary results and when that happens (and it's been happening too long) the approach needs to change.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying, in the minds of Vikings management, they HAVE addressed it.

Here's what I do know ... we can't have any more games like the contest against Philly. That was a horror show. If it continues, we're going to be stuck watching Shaun Hill because Bradford is going to get killed.

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Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:53 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I don't disagree. I'm just saying, in the minds of Vikings management, they HAVE addressed it.


Oh, I agree with you. That's part of what's frustrating about the situation.

Quote:
Here's what I do know ... we can't have any more games like the contest against Philly. That was a horror show. If it continues, we're going to be stuck watching Shaun Hill because Bradford is going to get killed.


I agree about that too. Hopefully, we won't have to watch that horror show again... especially on Monday, when a horror show would be appropriate. ;)


Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:09 pm
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Post Re: Andy Benoit: Vikings Have a Big Problem
Mothman wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I don't disagree. I'm just saying, in the minds of Vikings management, they HAVE addressed it.


Oh, I agree with you. That's part of what's frustrating about the situation.

Quote:
Here's what I do know ... we can't have any more games like the contest against Philly. That was a horror show. If it continues, we're going to be stuck watching Shaun Hill because Bradford is going to get killed.


I agree about that too. Hopefully, we won't have to watch that horror show again... especially on Monday, when a horror show would be appropriate. ;)


Bring the horror show TO the Bears.

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Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:19 pm
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