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 Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll) 

Will Norv Turner remain offensive coordinator
Yes 88%  88%  [ 28 ]
No 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 32

 Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll) 
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Post Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I think zimmer is at his wits end with the offense judging from his presser after the loss to philly. Thoughts?


Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Lol, yes he will.

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Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:49 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Turners 5-1 today was his first lost of the season. :whistle:


Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:53 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I don't like Turner's coordinating but the Vikings are 5-1. Bradford has been good, aside from today, and players like Patterson and Thielen are stepping up. So Coach Zimmer may be happy with how things are going.

OTOH, if Turner can't get more out of the offense, maybe then Zimmer will rethink his offensive coordinator's schemes.

One problem is no matter who the OC is, he will have to deal with the porous offensive line.


Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Norv doesnt matter
our QB doesnt matter
the RB is not an issue


NOTHING will matter until we have an OL. Without that nothing will ever work.

Its the same issue that we have been ignoring (well Spielman has ignored it) for the last few years.

Every week we face a team with any form of a strong Defensive line, we are gonna get #### slapped.


Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
halfgiz wrote:
Turners 5-1 today was his first lost of the season. :whistle:

and hehas the 31st ranked offense, again


Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:28 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
this isn't on Turner. I think the lack of his famous deep ball offence shows how they rate our offensive line.
This i'm afraid is on Slick Rick. He's made some great moves and the majority of our team is very very good. But his continued disregard for our awful O-line is going to bite us in the behind. It's already affected previous years, but this season where we have a genuine shot at it all, this will be the deciding factor.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:27 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
It doesn't matter what scheme you run, you still need an offensive line to hold its blocks. Anything Bradford dropped back he had someone hitting his arm or hitting the ball out of his hand. Adrian Peterson of all people couldn't get any yards behind this line and it's sad. It wasn't because AP all of a sudden lost explosion, it was because guys wee in the backfield by the time he got the hand off.

My problem with Turner is the predictability of the offense. He's too old to change. How many times do we have to see the whole run, run , play action pass? Then when we were stuffed on two consecutive downs when trying to get one yard we really should have did a play action pass then IMO. I know that seems like hindsight 20/20 but we are running the ball with Asiata who doesn't change directions well. It's frustrating seeing a bad line with a predictable offense.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:03 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
halfgiz wrote:
Turners 5-1 today was his first lost of the season. :whistle:


Turner will stay this year. You could maybe see Shurmur having more input ,but my guess is that it would be all behind the scenes.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:50 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I said yes but I wish I was wrong. I completely agree with the 31st ranked offense once again. It is pretty sad


Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:53 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Norv sits safely in Zimmer's blind spot. I'd love to see his head roll but don't think Zimmer will do it.

But I voted "no" to be optimistic that maybe Zim will see the light. He was obviously pissed, and must see that we will never win against playoff caliber defenses.

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Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:19 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I'm not sure which OC you think we're going to bring in that can do anything with that offensive line. There's no scheme in the NFL that doesn't require at least average blocking.

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Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:45 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Cliff wrote:
I'm not sure which OC you think we're going to bring in that can do anything with that offensive line. There's no scheme in the NFL that doesn't require at least average blocking.


I'd bring in someone who can do better than dead last in offense with it. Maybe a bartender, or a bus driver. As Zimmer said yesterday, he's not going to go bring in a bunch of new bodies so we have to work with what he have. Norv has proved he isn't up to the job.

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... a good completion percentage in a performance like that is like putting lipstick on a pig.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:50 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Purple Martin wrote:
Cliff wrote:
I'm not sure which OC you think we're going to bring in that can do anything with that offensive line. There's no scheme in the NFL that doesn't require at least average blocking.


I'd bring in someone who can do better than dead last in offense with it. Maybe a bartender, or a bus driver. As Zimmer said yesterday, he's not going to go bring in a bunch of new bodies so we have to work with what he have. Norv has proved he isn't up to the job.


Zimmer needs to prove he is up to it. It's not enough to be a resolute leader and a great defensive coordinator. The offense has declined and stagnated for almost 2.5 years on his watch. Turner's been unimpressive but he's not the head coach. Zimmer and Spielman need to turn their focus to the offense and get it right. Maybe Turner should be involved in that going forward and maybe not but the buck stops above his current pay grade.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:13 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I guess. Saying "just do better with what you have" doesn't seem like it's always a realistic option.

"So what you broke your metal and wooden baseball bats? Just go out and use with this wiffleball bat. If you can't do that, you're a loser and need to be fired."

We can argue all day about whether or not they addressed the offensive line talent properly or they've just got bad luck. What is inarguable at this point is that there's not enough talent and/or experience on the line. The tools aren't there to be successful against good defensive talent. At least the experience part can be made up to some degree as the season goes on.

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Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:31 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Cliff wrote:
I guess. Saying "just do better with what you have" doesn't seem like it's always a realistic option.

"So what you broke your metal and wooden baseball bats? Just go out and use with this wiffleball bat. If you can't do that, you're a loser and need to be fired."

We can argue all day about whether or not they addressed the offensive line talent properly or they've just got bad luck. What is inarguable at this point is that there's not enough talent and/or experience on the line. The tools aren't there to be successful against good defensive talent. At least the experience part can be made up to some degree as the season goes on.


Yes, and they may be able to see issues that are correctable and address them. Personally, I think it's clear that defense has been the team's primary focus since Zimmer arrived and the offense has suffered for it. That's been complicated by some personnel decisions on offense that haven't worked out and by some bad luck as well.

Considering their cap situation, saying "just do better with what you have" may be the only option remaining to them but I agree, that doesn't mean it's realistic to expect them to dramatically improve without making changes that may not be possible in season. Maybe the line will pull together and improve over the next few months. We can hope...


Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:41 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Boon wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
Turners 5-1 today was his first lost of the season. :whistle:


and hehas the 31st ranked offense, again


You're exactly right.

Then again, maybe Zimmer isn't cutting it on offense either, given his seeming reluctance to kick Norv either in the butt or out the door.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:09 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Mothman wrote:
Purple Martin wrote:
Cliff wrote:
I'm not sure which OC you think we're going to bring in that can do anything with that offensive line. There's no scheme in the NFL that doesn't require at least average blocking.


I'd bring in someone who can do better than dead last in offense with it. Maybe a bartender, or a bus driver. As Zimmer said yesterday, he's not going to go bring in a bunch of new bodies so we have to work with what he have. Norv has proved he isn't up to the job.


Zimmer needs to prove he is up to it. It's not enough to be a resolute leader and a great defensive coordinator. The offense has declined and stagnated for almost 2.5 years on his watch. Turner's been unimpressive but he's not the head coach. Zimmer and Spielman need to turn their focus to the offense and get it right. Maybe Turner should be involved in that going forward and maybe not but the buck stops above his current pay grade.


Zimmer is not off the hook here, that's why I said Norv is in his blind spot. I don't know why he is accepting such unacceptable performances from the offense. As I've said before, if our offense was a defensive player he'd be out of a job. Zimmer can't be OC too, but he has to hold the OC responsible somehow.

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Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:26 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but I just don't see the OC as the problem here. If anything, it's amazing what he's wringing out of that sieve of a line. He's even had Bradford throwing downfield in the first five weeks. Of course Bradford has been getting killed even with his successful passes. I'm just amazed that we haven't had more days like yesterday. We've been milliseconds away from QB hits for fumbles in every game.

And our play-action isn't getting any respect either. Having watched Sam since college, he's always been a very accurate passer on roll out plays. I think that's the only "solution" to our line problem, although I admit it doesn't solve everything.

One last thought in line with the thread's topic: Shumer really understands Sam. The last year/last game with Philly, with Shurmer as the head coach, Sam was all world against the Giants at Giant Stadium.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:07 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
God I hope not, I've been touting how bad he is for some time now, it's so obvious. Sure the O-line is terrible but they're also in a situation where they're asked to run block when the other team is selling out to stop the run on 1st down and they're asked to pass block in obvious 3rd and long situations due to the high rate of failure (due to predictability) on first and second down.

A lot of people thought AD was the problem and with him gone we'd use Mckinnin as this great pass catching weapon out of the back field and we'll be less predicitable and the offense won't have to go through the RB and yet nothing's changed. We still run which ever back right up the gut 70% of the time on first down, fail to use play action on those obvious running downs, and fail to be even remotely creative in the passing game.

Where are the designed roll outs? Where are the screen passes to take advantage of such aggressive pass rushes? Why does it take 3 and a half quarters of getting our #### kicked to get the ball in Patterson's hands? 3rd and 1 and we run it up the gut and get stuffed, 4th and 1 do the exact same thing and get stuffed again.

He needs to go so bad it's not even funny. My only fear is that people will be blinded enough by the O-line to keep letting Norv off the hook. Please Zimmer, tighten that leash, I have to believe you brought in Pat Shurmur in case we needed to go in another direction, end our suffering! He knows Bradford better than Norv anyway!


Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:17 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
mondry wrote:
We still run which ever back right up the gut 70% of the time on first down, fail to use play action on those obvious running downs, and fail to be even remotely creative in the passing game.

Where are the designed roll outs? Where are the screen passes to take advantage of such aggressive pass rushes? Why does it take 3 and a half quarters of getting our #### kicked to get the ball in Patterson's hands? 3rd and 1 and we run it up the gut and get stuffed, 4th and 1 do the exact same thing and get stuffed again.


That kind of stuff drives me crazy, too. I'm afraid we see it all too often with offensive coordinators who try to force feed the players into their precious system as opposed to trying to design the schemes around the team's talent.

mondry wrote:
Please Zimmer, tighten that leash, I have to believe you brought in Pat Shurmur in case we needed to go in another direction, end our suffering! He knows Bradford better than Norv anyway!


Good point about Shurmur. But I have the feeling Zimmer is already picking Shurmur's brain about using Bradford wisely. Unless Shurmur can improve both the offensive line blocking and playcalling strategy, there might not be much he can do.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:03 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Where's this coming from? This isn't on Norv -- from a play calling perspective that is...Who knows what kind of hand he has in coaching up the lineman.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Where's this coming from? This isn't on Norv -- from a play calling perspective that is...Who knows what kind of hand he has in coaching up the lineman.


Where it is coming from? Three straight years of ever-worsening offensive performance. We've been through changes in RB, QB, Oline, seasons, offseasons, assistant coaches and still we suck offensively. What has remained the same through all of this sucking? Norv Turner, the over-rated OC who once won a Super Bowl with a Hall of Fame QB and a Hall of Fame RB, and hasn't been near one since.

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Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
The Patriots lost 16-0 to the Bills without Tom Brady. The Cardinals offense scored 6 points yesterday. So did the Seahawks. I think Atlanta and Washington are decent teams, both lost yesterday to sub-par teams (although I think the Chargers are a lot better than their record reflects).

Yes, the line is a huge problem but lets try and not lose perspective. This is still a 5-1 team without either starting tackle and their #1 offensive weapon. Bradford has been on the team for 6 weeks or so. I don't care who you have as OC, that's going to impact you in a major way.

As PHP mentioned, every team has a weakness. You can't be solid at every position, especially with injuries. The Vikings are just going to need to find a way to win in spite of the line's shortcomings. Norv is old school but I think he's willing to adapt. Did no one see us run the wildcat at least twice?
Patterson is on the field a lot more. You're not going to see Chip Kelley offense out there, but is that what we really want?

Issues that were known were exposed this week. No doubt about that but lets see how they adjust. Seven weeks ago a lot of people were throwing in the towel on this season and look at where we are now. This is still a good team. A really good team that at the very least deserves the benefit of the doubt.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
losperros wrote:

Good point about Shurmur. But I have the feeling Zimmer is already picking Shurmur's brain about using Bradford wisely. Unless Shurmur can improve both the offensive line blocking and playcalling strategy, there might not be much he can do.


When Shurmur was at Philly his teams total offensive rating in 2014 was 5th in the league .
In 2015 he was rated 12th and he wasn't working with a great line or recievers.
That's a far cry better than Norv's 29th 2015 currently 32nd in 2016

I'm hoping they start leaning heavier on Shurmur.

Not to many teams in the NFL are without problems though.
We just need to take it one game at a time and try to improve. That's all you can do...

Good post S 197 :thumbsup:


Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I agree with you that people shouldn't hit the panic button but we have seen some issues that keep coming up. I personally feel that the line is garbage. However, I also feel that this offense aids in the issue with the lack of creativity. It's no secrete that this team run s on first down almost all of the time. It's the lack of surprise from this offense hats troubling. When I was playing coach from behind my tv screen yesterday I was just hoping that the Vikings would actually do a playaction on either third or fourth down when they couldn't get one yard. One yard with one way Asiata who will run into a brick wall before changing direction.

There will be other games like this as long as Norv and Zimmerman keep playing run, run, play action pass deep ball type offense.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
TURNER??? LOL...Better question is "Will Tony S be OL coach Monday night???'

Turner is FAR from the problem with the O. Poor OL and weak RB's are dragging down the offense and make no mistake the Bears can put a lot of the same pressure on next Monday that Philly just did.

That said, I expect OL juggling to be the order of this weeks practice.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:10 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I voted yes because...

Zimmer hasn't had the success he's had by succumbing to knee-jerk reactions. Norv isn't the one out there blocking on the offensive line, and it's plain as the nose on my face that it was the poor offensive line play coupled with a boat load of mistakes in all phases that led to the loss. No way Norv deserves blame for all of that.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
My theory is Zimmer is hoping that Arians gets canned in AZ after this season so he can bring him in. Then we'll have the two meanest coaches in the NFL. It will be beautiful.

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Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
His fault or not, I'm afraid Zimmer will remain loyal to Norv...unfortunately.

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Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:21 pm
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