Thoughts on the crapfest

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mansquatch
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by mansquatch » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:32 am

I'd be shocked, they are almost at the cap. It would be nice to get one of those guys, but that would mean neutering future drafts which has double costs in that we lose picks as well as cap space. Zimmer said straight up that they will need to get better with who they have.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by CbusVikesFan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:47 am

Is anyone really surprised at this point with the O Line?
I could see this game coming from a country mile away. The beds were really comfortable and everybody got some home cooking, got laid, and sat around listening to how great they are/were. Recipe for a letdown game.I'm hoping that they'll respond in a manner which befits a sb caliber team. If not, ho hum same old bs.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by 5thWave » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:55 am

I'm wondering where Bradford is in regard to audibles. Not saying that makes better line play, but might be helpful in going to plays that have more of a chance.

Also, Bradford has always looked very good in the past with roll out passing. Hope we see some of that to take off the pressure in the future.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by mansquatch » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:08 am

The OL played worse in this game than they have in previous efforts. That they are bad was not a surprise, that they were THAT bad was. However, the whole team played flat. ST and O were both really bad and were called out as such. Both phases played beneath themselves. I would argue that the defense played below their abilities, although not nearly to the extent that we saw from the Offense and ST.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Mothman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:32 am

mansquatch wrote:The OL played worse in this game than they have in previous efforts. That they are bad was not a surprise, that they were THAT bad was.
It sure didn't surprise me. I didn't think they were much, if any, worse in this game than they have been in some of the other games this season. One difference was the Eagles were often getting to Bradford before the ball came out rather than arriving and delivering big hits right after the ball was released, as we've seen several of the Vikings previous opponents do this year. However, we saw the same issues we've been seeing all season: rushers coming into the backfield unblocked or simply overpowering linemen at the point of attack. Inconsistent-to-bad run blocking (it was actually better in this game than in some previous efforts), etc. As CbusVikesFan wrote above, see this game coming from a country mile away.
However, the whole team played flat. ST and O were both really bad and were called out as such. Both phases played beneath themselves. I would argue that the defense played below their abilities, although not nearly to the extent that we saw from the Offense and ST.
I think they were simply outplayed.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by mansquatch » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:21 pm

Jim I offer you a different point of view on this: Do you feel that the effort we saw on Sunday was the same level of effort and play we've seen in the previous 5 games this season? I do not feel that it was. In fact I think if we had played at the level we played on Sunday all season we'd easily have at least 2 or 3 more losses than we have now.

If you accept that premise, then how did they win those other games? Did they just get lucky?

I'm not saying the OL played great in the other 5 games, they didn't. But we've seen them play better than we saw on Sunday. We've seen our defense play better and we've seen our ST units play MUCH better than we saw on Sunday. Unfortunately several of the units on the team decided to collectively show us how bad they can play yesterday.

One of the topics we talked about this offseason was the team eliminating flat performances like we just saw. they had three such games in 2015. Unfortunately they now have one in 2016. Let us hope it is the only one.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:24 pm

The Vikings got SMACKED! :lol:

I'm kinda glad now, after the fact. The O-line deserved every bit of the #### chewing they got and have coming. The Eagles put the Vikings in their place and it can be a good thing to get beat down like that when you're flying so high. I think they'll come out fired up and are not going to overlook any team going forward...The only thing is that this O-line can get as fired up as they want to, I just don't know if they have the ability to be good and I have seen no improvement to suggest that the coaches know how to fix it either.

Maybe AP comes back sooner than expected and we can put him at LT...Won't hurt to try at this point. :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:26 pm

Vikings were definitely outplayed. Looking back, they had more than a few legitimate opportunities to put 7 on the board and let the defense play with a decent lead, but they flat out could not get the job done. The Eagles outplayed them.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Mothman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:14 pm

mansquatch wrote:Jim I offer you a different point of view on this: Do you feel that the effort we saw on Sunday was the same level of effort and play we've seen in the previous 5 games this season? I do not feel that it was. In fact I think if we had played at the level we played on Sunday all season we'd easily have at least 2 or 3 more losses than we have now.
I think the effort was still there but the quality of play was not. I didn't think they looked flat, which I interpret to mean lacking interest and emotion. Maybe you mean something else when you say "flat"?
If you accept that premise, then how did they win those other games? Did they just get lucky?

I'm not saying the OL played great in the other 5 games, they didn't. But we've seen them play better than we saw on Sunday.
Yes, but overall, the quality of OL play on Sunday has been more the rule than the exception this year. Opposing defenses have been playing in the Vikes backfield all season. The OL has been awful since the season opener but the team has been able to overcome that by avoiding turnovers while forcing them on defense, by playing excellent special teams and by making just enough plays on offense. Nevertheless, as I said a few weeks ago when discussing this, the hits Bradford was taking mattered because they were indicative of how much pressure the line was allowing. When the QB keeps getting hit right after releasing the ball, odds are good that eventually more of those hits are going to arrive earlier and result in sacks, fumbles, disrupted plays, etc. This performance wasn't a fluke. It was inevitable, especially as game film increasingly showed how the Vikes were trying to make up for bad pass blocking with quick release passes. Their run blocking has been sub-par most of the season.
We've seen our defense play better and we've seen our ST units play MUCH better than we saw on Sunday. Unfortunately several of the units on the team decided to collectively show us how bad they can play yesterday.

One of the topics we talked about this offseason was the team eliminating flat performances like we just saw. they had three such games in 2015. Unfortunately they now have one in 2016. Let us hope it is the only one.
I hope so but I doubt it will be. As I posted yesterday, that was the eighth game of the Zimmer era in which the Vikes have scored 10 or fewer points. Considering the state of their line, it seems likely we'll see another one this year. Maybe the ST and defense will be able to help them overcome it again.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Mothman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:32 pm

On the subject of trying to make up for bad pass blocking with quick release passes...

Vikings got exposed, and now the clock is ticking
There's a clock in Sam Bradford's head, and it's ticking fast. The alarm goes off at 2.3 seconds, which is the average length of time it's taking the Minnesota Vikings quarterback to throw the ball this season. That was the fourth-fastest time in the entire NFL entering Sunday's game, and Sunday's game showed the reason for that.
The 5-0 record the Vikings carried into Lincoln Financial Field on Sunday wasn't a mirage, but it wasn't bulletproof, either. The pressure with which the Eagles' defensive front whipped Minnesota's overmatched tackles was the attack for which Zimmer has clearly been bracing. Philadelphia sacked Bradford six times, and the Eagles also hit him 19 times and knocked him down 14 times. A tackle rotation that included T.J. Clemmings, Jeremiah Sirles and recently signed veteran Jake Long didn't have any answers for the Eagles' edge rushers, who were appropriately unimpressed.
... and the conclusion:
That clock that's in Bradford's head every time he takes a snap is just like the one that needs to be in the Vikings' heads as they swallow their first loss and take this turn into the middle part of the season. They're 5-1 and have looked as good as any team in the league this year. But because they can't afford for Bradford to get hurt and because their biggest current problem puts his health at direct risk, they don't have a lot of time to get this figured out.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Mothman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:50 pm

Zimmer cracks me up:

Brian Murphy: Eagles expose Vikings’ offensive line holes
“We’re not going to go down the street and pick up a bunch of guys,” he said. “We need to get these guys better and we need to do it quickly. I’m disappointed we allowed that to happen. You know going into the game they’re going to go after Bradford. I didn’t go to Harvard but I figured that out.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by jackal » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:01 pm

The new offensive line theme song with the guys Zimmer picked up by home depot...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJHQJhx1A_c
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by autobon7 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:02 pm

See if the Browns would take a 2nd and maybe a 6th from 2018
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by MrPurplenGold » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:06 pm

I guess my question is, if the vikings know the offensive line is such a problem, why are they continuously allowing them to be exposed? Why are they not doing more max protect or putting tight ends on both tackles and allow them to chip before they go in to their routes. It's not just the offensive line either, from the little I saw Sunday, the backs aren't doing a good job at picking up the blitz either. The offensive line will continue to be bad, but making a bad o line win one on one battles is bad coaching.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by CbusVikesFan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:35 pm

Jim,
you and I have seen a ton of Vikings football. We have seen many lineups trotted out there for us to behold. Some have been really good and some really bad.I am not sure how it has gotten to be this putrid, but one thing is for sure. The eagles have a pretty good defense in their own right. And they game planned accordingly. Knowing that, I am not sure how the Vikings came up with any counter punches. The whole team should take the blame, they were outcoached and outplayed.
If the team was built from the inside out, there wouldn't be so much conversation about the offensive line.
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