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 Play calling 
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Post Play calling
Can someone answer me this? Why on 3rd and long do they constantly run RB draws or some other dumb play that has like a .5 percent chance to actually pick up the first down? The 3rd and 30 play really grinded my gears. Running a RB draw with Asiata is almost on par with the WR screen the Texans ran on 4th and 16..... almost. Why not throw a deep pass there? What is the reason behind this thinking? Who knows? Maybe we would get a PI call, maybe a reciever would make a play, maybe they would pick it off which would equal a 40 yard punt. I just don't understand it.

Also, I was getting very mad at the refs yesterday. Seriously they need to call the game for both teams.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:03 am
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Post Re: Play calling
Norv Zimmer wrote:
Can someone answer me this? Why on 3rd and long do they constantly run RB draws or some other dumb play that has like a .5 percent chance to actually pick up the first down? The 3rd and 30 play really grinded my gears. Running a RB draw with Asiata is almost on par with the WR screen the Texans ran on 4th and 16..... almost. Why not throw a deep pass there? What is the reason behind this thinking? Who knows? Maybe we would get a PI call, maybe a reciever would make a play, maybe they would pick it off which would equal a 40 yard punt. I just don't understand it.

Also, I was getting very mad at the refs yesterday. Seriously they need to call the game for both teams.



Situational football.

We were up big at that point, no reason to choose a high risk play that may get you 30 yards, but that may also end up getting you a pick 6. At that point, they were controlling the game by maneuvering for field position and letting our dominant D do their thing. We then receive a punt, which Sherels may return for a TD, and if not allows our O to start roughly at the same spot with a new set of downs.

I'm not saying I entirely agree with the play call, but it is conservative and prudent football, given the context.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:08 am
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Post Re: Play calling
That brings up another thing that bugs me about this team. It seems like when they do get ahead and get comfortable the offense takes its foot off the pedal. I would much rather see them stick a dagger in teams, much like the Patriots do.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:15 am
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Post Re: Play calling
It seemed like to me that midway through the 3rd they were playing a safe style of offense and taking time off the clock. That seems way too early to be doing this.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:16 am
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Post Re: Play calling
Norv Zimmer wrote:
That brings up another thing that bugs me about this team. It seems like when they do get ahead and get comfortable the offense takes its foot off the pedal. I would much rather see them stick a dagger in teams, much like the Patriots do.



I would argue that if we had the Patriots offense we would do this. And that if the patriots had our offense and defense they would do what we did. Play to your strengths. We had the Texans in a position where they had to score more points in 30 minutes than any team has in 60 against us. Even without taking our TOP into it.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:27 am
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Post Re: Play calling
It's a bit ironic to hear these complaints when we are 5-0, IMO.

Part of our success is that we are playing smart football. We know who we are and we are using strategies that reflect that self awareness.

A major reason why Bradford has 0 interceptions and is playing so cleanly is because of the conservative philosophies in situations that call for it.

Lastly, with our OL as is, we don't need to expose Bradford to a 7 step drop and the time needed to throw a 30-35 yard route. Especially not when we have the game under control.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:35 am
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Post Re: Play calling
This is why we don't have as much of yards on offense compared to other teams. The Vikings like to use the clock and run it out. In my mind that's what seperate us from the Patriots, they will continue the momentum and run out the score, as the Vikings prefer to maintain the lead and run the clock out. That's why we always give up so many yards near the end of the game, garbage time yards that kill the clock.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:38 am
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Post Re: Play calling
IrishViking wrote:
Norv Zimmer wrote:
That brings up another thing that bugs me about this team. It seems like when they do get ahead and get comfortable the offense takes its foot off the pedal. I would much rather see them stick a dagger in teams, much like the Patriots do.



I would argue that if we had the Patriots offense we would do this. And that if the patriots had our offense and defense they would do what we did. Play to your strengths. We had the Texans in a position where they had to score more points in 30 minutes than any team has in 60 against us. Even without taking our TOP into it.


I pretty much agree with what you're saying about the Pats offense and defense compared to the Vikings. And I agree the Texans were down so many points that TOP became the Vikings best weapon.

OTOH, I can't stand play-not-to-lose football. I thought yesterday was understandable but if the Vikings begin to wallow in conservative playcalling too often, it will come back to bite them in the behind. Never let the other team back in the game. There are too many intangibles in the NFL and teams do sometimes make walloping comebacks during games. That's also why I don't care for pass prevent defense.

Regarding the Vikings passing game, I think it's still a work in progress. But it's a good work in progress. As the season progresses, I expect Bradford and the receivers to be making bigger and more aggressive plays.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:45 am
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Post Re: Play calling
losperros wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
Norv Zimmer wrote:
That brings up another thing that bugs me about this team. It seems like when they do get ahead and get comfortable the offense takes its foot off the pedal. I would much rather see them stick a dagger in teams, much like the Patriots do.



I would argue that if we had the Patriots offense we would do this. And that if the patriots had our offense and defense they would do what we did. Play to your strengths. We had the Texans in a position where they had to score more points in 30 minutes than any team has in 60 against us. Even without taking our TOP into it.


I pretty much agree with what you're saying about the Pats offense and defense compared to the Vikings. And I agree the Texans were down so many points that TOP became the Vikings best weapon.

OTOH, I can't stand play-not-to-lose football. I thought yesterday was understandable but if the Vikings begin to wallow in conservative playcalling too often, it will come back to bite them in the behind. Never let the other team back in the game. There are too many intangibles in the NFL and teams do sometimes make walloping comebacks during games. That's also why I don't care for pass prevent defense.

Regarding the Vikings passing game, I think it's still a work in progress. But it's a good work in progress. As the season progresses, I expect Bradford and the receivers to be making bigger and more aggressive plays.



I know exactly what you mean. I couldn't watch the game entirely because I was busy but I kept checking in waiting for the slow climb back in by the texans.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:55 am
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Post Re: Play calling
Haven't really minded the playcalling up to this point.

As far as taking our foot off the pedal, there may be some truth to that, but it hasn't been like we can't floor it if we feel threatened again. Just kind of idle until someone gives us a reason not to.

I will say one call I vehemently disagreed with was the decision to kick a field goal on 4th and 1 from the one or two yardline. That was an opportunity to crush the larynx and we just didn't take it. One could argue our running game needs more work than our kicking game, and I think letting us try to smash it in would have been a much better call.

Not only that, but the field position we would have given the Texans had we failed, with our defense, would have been much more valuable than three points in that situation. Osweiler had no clue what was happening all day, he would have been even more panicky standing in his own endzone, and we could have drawn up some really aggressive blitzes.

I know shouldas, wouldas, and couldas are a trite bit of commentary when it comes to football, because no one knows what would have happened. However, I think most fans would agree that the Texans' best case scenario would have been a punt, which would have set us up an opportunity to get the 3 points we opted not to take initially right back.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:06 am
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Post Re: Play calling
The answer is they trust their defense. Why take a risk when your D is thoroughly owning them and you have a lead? Play field position and take calculated shots.

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Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:33 am
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Post Re: Play calling
unfortunately, we just dont have the OL to say..."damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!....", Clemmings would have screwed up , etc...For goal line situations like that it would be cool if Norv took some of our Jumbo Defensive players and used them for runs up the middle..........Its gonna come up as the year goes on.....


Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:49 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
95% of teams on 3rd and 30 are going to either draw, screen or run something underneath. This is not unique to the Vikings. As for taking the foot off the pedal, Bradford was throwing all through the 3rd quarter and into the 4th. In fact Bradford threw 4 passes in a row to end the 3rd quarter then found Patterson in the endzone in the 4th.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
S197 wrote:
95% of teams on 3rd and 30 are going to either draw, screen or run something underneath. This is not unique to the Vikings. As for taking the foot off the pedal, Bradford was throwing all through the 3rd quarter and into the 4th. In fact Bradford threw 4 passes in a row to end the 3rd quarter then found Patterson in the endzone in the 4th.


At the very least I would have thrown in the flat to Asiata.....which has more often than not gained good yardage. Prolly not 30 but better than the run we watched.


Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:06 am
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Post Re: Play calling
autobon7 wrote:
S197 wrote:
95% of teams on 3rd and 30 are going to either draw, screen or run something underneath. This is not unique to the Vikings. As for taking the foot off the pedal, Bradford was throwing all through the 3rd quarter and into the 4th. In fact Bradford threw 4 passes in a row to end the 3rd quarter then found Patterson in the endzone in the 4th.


At the very least I would have thrown in the flat to Asiata.....which has more often than not gained good yardage. Prolly not 30 but better than the run we watched.


If you're still probably not going to get 30 then why not go with the play that has the lower chance of a turnover?

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Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:22 am
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Post Re: Play calling
At the very least I would have thrown in the flat to Asiata.....which has more often than not gained good yardage. Prolly not 30 but better than the run we watched.[/quote]

If you're still probably not going to get 30 then why not go with the play that has the lower chance of a turnover?[/quote]

Better field position after the punt


Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:38 am
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Post Re: Play calling
autobon7 wrote:
At the very least I would have thrown in the flat to Asiata.....which has more often than not gained good yardage. Prolly not 30 but better than the run we watched.


If you're still probably not going to get 30 then why not go with the play that has the lower chance of a turnover?[/quote]

Better field position after the punt[/quote]


And a MUCH MUCH MUCH higher chance of Pick 6.

powers of magnitude more risky then a run up the gut.


Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:45 am
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Post Re: Play calling
That Madden video game got OP thinking 3rd and 30 is a high percentage down and distance.


Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
PacificNorseWest wrote:
That Madden video game got OP thinking 3rd and 30 is a high percentage down and distance.


Actually, I dont play madden. I am just saying why not throw it deep on 3rd and 30, maybe get a completion, pass interference. Just try, seems more likely to keep a drive going than a 3rd and 30 draw to asiata.


Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
As to the original post, the answer is "Norv."

As to another point, yes, the Vikes are 5-0 and playing a relaxed offense in the 3rd going into the 4th might be smart/safe football, but if points can come quickly in the first half, they can come quickly in the second.

I'd rather win 42-10 instead of 30-10. Yep, I'm greedy. I want to see a deep run throughout the playoffs, culminating in a win in the big one.

I hate knowing my favorite team is the "best team to Never win a Super Bowl."

Come on Vikes, let's get there, and how 'bout playing the Bills in the big one? That would be a war!

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Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
Norv Zimmer wrote:
PacificNorseWest wrote:
That Madden video game got OP thinking 3rd and 30 is a high percentage down and distance.


Actually, I dont play madden. I am just saying why not throw it deep on 3rd and 30, maybe get a completion, pass interference. Just try, seems more likely to keep a drive going than a 3rd and 30 draw to asiata.


I was just joking with ya, man....


Refresh my memory though...Wasn't this in the 3rd quarter?...Maybe not, but what was the situation? The score, where were they on the field and what was the score at that time?


Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
Defense will be playing deep and not let anything get over them. A draw is a perfect play under the circumstance. I really don't see the issue here.


I thought this thread was going to be about how unpredictable the play calling has been since Bradford arrived and Peterson got hurt.

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Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:17 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
Because Norv has no imagination. His best play for that is some kinda of bubble screen even if the 10 Texans are over there waiting for it. But there were other game I thought Zim would be outsmarted and he wasnt. Im so afraid we are going to lose Zim this year or near. Money talks.


Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:43 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
Texas Vike wrote:
Norv Zimmer wrote:
Can someone answer me this? Why on 3rd and long do they constantly run RB draws or some other dumb play that has like a .5 percent chance to actually pick up the first down? The 3rd and 30 play really grinded my gears. Running a RB draw with Asiata is almost on par with the WR screen the Texans ran on 4th and 16..... almost. Why not throw a deep pass there? What is the reason behind this thinking? Who knows? Maybe we would get a PI call, maybe a reciever would make a play, maybe they would pick it off which would equal a 40 yard punt. I just don't understand it.

Also, I was getting very mad at the refs yesterday. Seriously they need to call the game for both teams.



Situational football.

We were up big at that point, no reason to choose a high risk play that may get you 30 yards, but that may also end up getting you a pick 6. At that point, they were controlling the game by maneuvering for field position and letting our dominant D do their thing. We then receive a punt, which Sherels may return for a TD, and if not allows our O to start roughly at the same spot with a new set of downs.

I'm not saying I entirely agree with the play call, but it is conservative and prudent football, given the context.


Chances of throwing a pick 6 on a 50 yard bomb are nil, that's not a good counter


Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:57 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
IrishViking wrote:

And a MUCH MUCH MUCH higher chance of Pick 6.

powers of magnitude more risky then a run up the gut.


lol? on a deep throw? like 98% of pick 6 plays are outs that are jumped or safeties/linebackers jumping crosses. Rest are probably tipped balls, and an extremely small % are deep throws, lets be real here


Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:59 pm
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Post Re: Play calling
Boon wrote:
IrishViking wrote:

And a MUCH MUCH MUCH higher chance of Pick 6.

powers of magnitude more risky then a run up the gut.


lol? on a deep throw? like 98% of pick 6 plays are outs that are jumped or safeties/linebackers jumping crosses. Rest are probably tipped balls, and an extremely small % are deep throws, lets be real here



We were talking about a pass to Asiata on the flat? Its like the number one play type in the game of football to be jumped for a pick-six... :confused:


Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:05 am
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Post Re: Play calling
IrishViking wrote:
Boon wrote:
IrishViking wrote:

And a MUCH MUCH MUCH higher chance of Pick 6.

powers of magnitude more risky then a run up the gut.


lol? on a deep throw? like 98% of pick 6 plays are outs that are jumped or safeties/linebackers jumping crosses. Rest are probably tipped balls, and an extremely small % are deep throws, lets be real here



We were talking about a pass to Asiata on the flat? Its like the number one play type in the game of football to be jumped for a pick-six... :confused:

I think he lost track of the conversation like i did... I thought you were saying a deep throw had a higher chance of a pick 6 as well.

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Post Re: Play calling
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Norv Zimmer wrote:
PacificNorseWest wrote:
That Madden video game got OP thinking 3rd and 30 is a high percentage down and distance.


Actually, I dont play madden. I am just saying why not throw it deep on 3rd and 30, maybe get a completion, pass interference. Just try, seems more likely to keep a drive going than a 3rd and 30 draw to asiata.


I was just joking with ya, man....


Refresh my memory though...Wasn't this in the 3rd quarter?...Maybe not, but what was the situation? The score, where were they on the field and what was the score at that time?


I don't really care what point of the game it is, what the score is, what the situation of the game is. I just think that a asiata running play on 3rd and 30 is moronic and shows that you are not even trying to keep the drive going.

It really shouldn't matter what the game situation is, running a draw on 3rd and 30 is pretty much admitting that you are fine with a crappy drive.


Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:13 am
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Post Re: Play calling
lol? on a deep throw? like 98% of pick 6 plays are outs that are jumped or safeties/linebackers jumping crosses. Rest are probably tipped balls, and an extremely small % are deep throws, lets be real here[/quote]


We were talking about a pass to Asiata on the flat? Its like the number one play type in the game of football to be jumped for a pick-six... :confused:[/quote]
I think he lost track of the conversation like i did... I thought you were saying a deep throw had a higher chance of a pick 6 as well.[/quote]

Thats what I was thinking he meant too. I was saying throw a bomb and maybe get a completion, maybe get a PI call, maybe throw a 50 yard pick which would equal a punt imo.


Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:16 am
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Post Re: Play calling
Norv Zimmer wrote:
. I was saying throw a bomb and maybe get a completion, maybe get a PI call, maybe throw a 50 yard pick which would equal a punt imo.


Remember that those picks are returnable. Sure, punts are too, but without the added benefit of organization and, importantly, hang time. It's not as simple as "throw a deep pass that could be intercepted." Those have a greater likelihood for substantial return yards vs a punt that (depending on field position and coverage) offers little to no return yardage and flipping field position.

Given the typical defensive alignment on a third-and-30, the success rate (including possible PI) is pretty low when you're not throwing against Waynes. It's hard enough to complete 30-yard passes in this league, much less attempt them when a defense is aligned specifically in a disadvantageous position with multiple DBs hanging back 20 yards.

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Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:45 am
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