View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:40 am



Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 And then, there was one... 
Author Message
Starting Wide Receiver
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Posts: 17456
Location: Crystal, MN
Post And then, there was one...
Ladies and Gentlemen, your Minnesota Vikings are the only undefeated team left in the NFL, and it will be that way for at least two weeks since we have our bye next week.
There are other teams who are looking really good (Dallas, Philly, Atlanta, New England), but it is nice to be the only undefeated team in the league. Hopefully the vikings can get healthy during the bye, especially on the OL!!

_________________
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2016‬


Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:12 pm
Profile YIM WWW
Pro Bowl Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:27 pm
Posts: 535
Post Re: And then, there was one...
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen, your Minnesota Vikings are the only undefeated team left in the NFL, and it will be that way for at least two weeks since we have our bye next week.
There are other teams who are looking really good (Dallas, Philly, Atlanta, New England), but it is nice to be the only undefeated team in the league. Hopefully the vikings can get healthy during the bye, especially on the OL!!


SKOL

_________________
My guide to being a Vikings fan:
Step 1.) Drink beer.
Step 2.) See step 1.


Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:35 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Posts: 3037
Location: Sebastian, FL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
3/5 of those wins came against playoff teams from last year. Something they didn't do last year. We have three more to play. AZ, GB and Washington.

_________________
This space for rent.


Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:08 pm
Profile
Pro Bowl Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:07 pm
Posts: 501
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Bradford is playing insane lights out football right now. Heck yes! :thumbsup:


Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:05 pm
Profile
Strong Safety
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:05 am
Posts: 11327
Location: California
Post Re: And then, there was one...
So proud of this team.. we have had a ton of injuries and set backs and this team is standing together, and being a great NFL team...

Don't get me wrong I love winning but seeing 46-53 guys step up with through injuries and playing some very good teams... SKOL SKOL
SKOL SKOL SKOL.... :govikes:

_________________
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:50 pm
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
Posts: 1269
Post Re: And then, there was one...
imagine if we had an OL..........


Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:35 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
chicagopurple wrote:
imagine if we had an OL..........



2 sacks pressured on 1/5 drop backs... And back back 90+ yard rushing games... They arent all world but my goodness you go on like we are giving up 8 sacks a game. We are making it work and Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks (current pace).


Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:11 am
Profile
Pro Bowl Elite Player

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:20 pm
Posts: 975
Post Re: And then, there was one...
IrishViking wrote:
chicagopurple wrote:
imagine if we had an OL..........



2 sacks pressured on 1/5 drop backs... And back back 90+ yard rushing games... They arent all world but my goodness you go on like we are giving up 8 sacks a game. We are making it work and Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks (current pace).


I think he means that if we had a good line how the domino effect would come into play.....better run game, more time in the pocket, etc.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:33 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Raptorman wrote:
3/5 of those wins came against playoff teams from last year. Something they didn't do last year. We have three more to play. AZ, GB and Washington.


This to me is the most impressive part. GB, NYG, and HOU are all teams with winning records. CAR, despite a bad record was a SB team last year. That is strong competition. This has all the makings of a great season. Let's enjoy the ride! (And hope our Kicker doesn't give us the Gary Anderson treatment...)

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:41 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
IrishViking wrote:
chicagopurple wrote:
imagine if we had an OL..........


2 sacks pressured on 1/5 drop backs... And back back 90+ yard rushing games... They arent all world but my goodness you go on like we are giving up 8 sacks a game. We are making it work and Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks (current pace).


QBs can get hurt on hits that don't result in sacks and although the Vikes ran for 98 yards yesterday, it took them 35 carries to get those yards. Reps in the running game are important so that's not all bad but an average of 2.8 yards per carry is not indicative of particularly effective run blocking.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:51 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
Posts: 1269
Post Re: And then, there was one...
and the running yards we DID get were due to creative play calling on Norv's part. They were NOT runs that depended on good run blocking. It was all gimmicks, smoke/mirrors.....which is great given our circumstances but MAN if we had just an average front line we would be slaughtering the league!!!


Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:56 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
I understand the yards per carry is poor. But 96 yards isn't. It's in fact, a massive improvement. We arent talking about needed yards now, just needed them more efficiently, that in and of its self is indicative of a positive trend.

I also get that QBs can get injuried off of other plays. A lucky QB can get sacked 100 times and not suffer a serious injury, a unlucky one can have his career end behind a HoF Oline. You aren't going to keep a QB untouched through a season. But so far Norv has managed to scheme solid protection for him through arguable the toughest part of our schedule


Last edited by IrishViking on Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:09 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
chicagopurple wrote:
and the running yards we DID get were due to creative play calling on Norv's part. They were NOT runs that depended on good run blocking. It was all gimmicks, smoke/mirrors.....which is great given our circumstances but MAN if we had just an average front line we would be slaughtering the league!!!



Ill agree with that, I would say that their were a handful of runs this game with solid blocking. I am happy to see us trending in the right direction in spite the injuries.

Creative play calling and extra protection are part of the game and if they can keep using it to keep limiting the QB pressure and continue to improve in the running game i think we are gonna be fine. I hope they improve the Oline this off season it's our biggest need,


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:16 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: And then, there was one...
I don't think we are giving them enough credit for the fact that they put up those yards against the Texans. The HOU Front 7 might be without Watt, but it still one of the best in the NFL. The running game still has a ways to go, but they deserve credit for putting up those yards against one of the toughest fronts we'll see until the playoffs. Also the gimmicky stuff is the same thing that NE used to beat their defense so it isn't unique to the Vikings.

The schedule will get softer after the Philly game, we should expect to see continued improvement.

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:27 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
IrishViking wrote:
I understand the yards per carry is poor. But 96 yards isn't


But as a measure of o-line performance, the ypc is highly relevant.

Quote:
I also get that QBs can get injuried off of other plays.


Then what's the point of a comment like "Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks" when hits can be just as damaging? :confused:


Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:56 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Mothman wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
I understand the yards per carry is poor. But 96 yards isn't


But as a measure of o-line performance, the ypc is highly relevant.

Quote:
I also get that QBs can get injuried off of other plays.


Then what's the point of a comment like "Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks" when hits can be just as damaging? :confused:



Whats the point in talking about "hits" when getting shoved and taking a step back counts the same as being Pile driven after the play is over and becoming paralyzed via the measurement tool :confused:

which is where the hurries come in, last two games, hurried on roughly 1/5 drop backs. Hurries lead to Hits. so he is potentially only getting hit on 1/5 attempts, but actually far less because not every hurry leads to hit.


The rest of my post is trying to make the point that 1 hit can end a career and 500 might not. Norv's game plan has him getting hit and sack at an "acceptable" rate if you accept that fact that the best teams in the history of the league will give up sacks and hits. We are 18th in QB hits and tied for 6th in sacks given up. And if you take away one hit per game we are in the top 12 teams in the league. My main point is that improvement is desired, needed, and would be great. But our Oline is playing right at or even slightly above league average in defending our QB.

2.6 is better than 1.6 and 96 is better than 36. The trend is up and if it keeps going at that rate we are a couple of weeks away from having a decent rushing attack to go with our passing attack. The Oline is not regressing on a macro level they are improving which, with the injuries they have had, is rather shocking imo.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:28 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
IrishViking wrote:
Whats the point in talking about "hits" when getting shoved and taking a step back counts the same as being Pile driven after the play is over and becoming paralyzed via the measurement tool :confused:


The point of talking about hits is a QB can be hurt on a hit, not just a sack, so when discussing protection, hits are relevant. Isn't that obvious within the context of the discussion? I brought them up in response to your comment that "Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks (current pace)".

Quote:
The rest of my post is trying to make the point that 1 hit can end a career and 500 might not. Norv's game plan has him getting hit and sack at an "acceptable" rate if you accept that fact that the best teams in the history of the league will give up sacks and hits.


I accept that hits and sacks are inevitable but I don't accept that the number of times Bradford's getting hit is simply acceptable. The nature of some of those hits matters, not just the number of times they occur. I'm taking about actual hits, not stats, so I'm not referring to plays where the QB gets shoved and takes a step back. Mercilus alone hit Bradford at least 5 times Sunday and some of those hits were pretty brutal. On one, he came up the middle unblocked and absolutely leveled Bradford. Bradford completed a pass on the play but the Vikes need to clean that stuff up because that kind of hit can put a QB on the sidelines.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:06 pm
Profile
Career Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Posts: 2287
Location: Hawaii
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Quote:
Krauser‏@Krauserrific

Vikings defense:
points/game against: 12.6 (1st)
yds/play: 4.4 (1st)
opponent passer rating: 65.3 (1st)
sacks: 19 (1st)
takeaways: 12 (1st)

_________________
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014


Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:49 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Posts: 3037
Location: Sebastian, FL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Mothman wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
I understand the yards per carry is poor. But 96 yards isn't


But as a measure of o-line performance, the ypc is highly relevant.

Quote:
I also get that QBs can get injuried off of other plays.


Then what's the point of a comment like "Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks" when hits can be just as damaging? :confused:

Someone once posted a stat about running games in the NFL. It basically said that how much yardage you get really does not matter. It the number of attempts that do. They had some interesting numbers to back it up. It went that as long as a team attempted at least 20 runs a game that it would open up the play action pass. The team they used to support the theory, the Patriots. But they also took several other teams stats that showed it was the number of attempts and not he yardage that made a difference. I will try and find it when I have the time.

_________________
This space for rent.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:19 pm
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Mothman wrote:
I accept that hits and sacks are inevitable but I don't accept that the number of times Bradford's getting hit is simply acceptable. The nature of some of those hits matters, not just the number of times they occur. I'm taking about actual hits, not stats, so I'm not referring to plays where the QB gets shoved and takes a step back. Mercilus alone hit Bradford at least 5 times Sunday and some of those hits were pretty brutal. On one, he came up the middle unblocked and absolutely leveled Bradford. Bradford completed a pass on the play but the Vikes need to clean that stuff up because that kind of hit can put a QB on the sidelines.


Bradford has been hit 23 times and sacked 8 times this season. The Raiders -Of all teams- have the best protection scheme in the league with only 5 sacks given up and just 12 hits. My point is that, that is the best you can measure against. you cant hold ANY Offense protection scheme to the goal of zero sacks and zero Hits. It just doesn't happen in a season.

8-5 is 3
23-12 is 11

so over the course of 4 games Bradford has gotten sacked .75/pg more and hit 2.75/pg more than what could reasonably be argued to be the best possible outcome in the real world. I get your point that you want to avoid hits because anything can happen. My point is that you cannot avoid them though, they will happen. Yes there are some hits that are quite abusive, that's true. But a lot of those 23 hits have also been of the "Helmet tap "Ill get you next time" variety" But that aside,
W agree you need to limit them, and given what we are working with, they havent done a poor job. There is room for improvement. My only argument is that Bradford is not at some sort of "beyond the pale risk" or we are doing him a disservice by trotting him out with a protection scheme that causes him to sacked less than once a game more and hit slightly less than 3 times per game more over 60 minutes when compared to literally the best playing Protection scheme in the league.

Improvements are expect and if we want to win the Superbowl they must get better. But even given what has happened to the Oline our protection scheme is far from bottom feeding.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:31 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
IrishViking wrote:
Bradford has been hit 23 times and sacked 8 times this season. The Raiders -Of all teams- have the best protection scheme in the league with only 5 sacks given up and just 12 hits. My point is that, that is the best you can measure against. you cant hold ANY Offense protection scheme to the goal of zero sacks and zero Hits. It just doesn't happen in a season.

8-5 is 3
23-12 is 11

so over the course of 4 games Bradford has gotten sacked .75/pg more and hit 2.75/pg more than what could reasonably be argued to be the best possible outcome in the real world. I get your point that you want to avoid hits because anything can happen. My point is that you cannot avoid them though, they will happen.


Of course they will happen. Nobody is suggesting they can be entirely avoided. Within the context of the discussion, I was responding to your assertion that "Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks". My aim was to point out that sack numbers don't fully indicate the degree of risk to the QB because injuries can also result from hits on the QB that don't occur during sacks. In other words, Bradford might not 'easily" survive a 30 sack season if he keeps getting hit like he's been getting hit so far.

That's it. :)


Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:37 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Raptorman wrote:
Someone once posted a stat about running games in the NFL. It basically said that how much yardage you get really does not matter. It the number of attempts that do. They had some interesting numbers to back it up. It went that as long as a team attempted at least 20 runs a game that it would open up the play action pass. The team they used to support the theory, the Patriots. But they also took several other teams stats that showed it was the number of attempts and not he yardage that made a difference. I will try and find it when I have the time.


Please don't put yourself out if you don't have the time. I've read that before and I believe it has merit. That's what I was getting at above when I posted "Reps in the running game are important". I think yardage gained obviously matters but even if a team runs 35 times and only gains 98 yards, there's a benefit to running the ball 35 times in a game.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:41 pm
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
Mothman wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
Bradford has been hit 23 times and sacked 8 times this season. The Raiders -Of all teams- have the best protection scheme in the league with only 5 sacks given up and just 12 hits. My point is that, that is the best you can measure against. you cant hold ANY Offense protection scheme to the goal of zero sacks and zero Hits. It just doesn't happen in a season.

8-5 is 3
23-12 is 11

so over the course of 4 games Bradford has gotten sacked .75/pg more and hit 2.75/pg more than what could reasonably be argued to be the best possible outcome in the real world. I get your point that you want to avoid hits because anything can happen. My point is that you cannot avoid them though, they will happen.


Of course they will happen. Nobody is suggesting they can be entirely avoided. Within the context of the discussion, I was responding to your assertion that "Bradford will easily survive a season taking 30 sacks". My aim was to point out that sack numbers don't fully indicate the degree of risk to the QB because injuries can also result from hits on the QB that don't occur during sacks. In other words, Bradford might not 'easily" survive a 30 sack season if he keeps getting hit like he's been getting hit so far.

That's it. :)


We are on the same page then. I don't try to mess with hits simply because of how wide a range they are. You absolutely will have hits that can be worse than sacks by far but you will also have your fair share of "shoulder bumps" that i believe Bradford has the fortitude to withstand. To me generally, if a team is preventing sacks its means decent protection. Rare are the games where a QB gets smashed but they manage to avoid the sacks regularly.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:57 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: And then, there was one...
I would add this to rushing stats: I care more about getting first downs with rushing attempts in the 4th quarter than any other time. First downs in the 4th quarter via the ground game allow you to chew up the clock and close out an opponent. 40 seconds per play until they start using times outs Get them to 4 minutes and they have to use time outs. Get to the 2 minute warning and then 3 plays and the game is over. I'd love to see 200 yards of rushing, but if we are only going to have 65, better that 45 of them in the 4th quarter to close the game.

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:31 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: And then, there was one...
808vikingsfan wrote:
Quote:
Krauser‏@Krauserrific

Vikings defense:
points/game against: 12.6 (1st)
yds/play: 4.4 (1st)
opponent passer rating: 65.3 (1st)
sacks: 19 (1st)
takeaways: 12 (1st)



'85 Bears were 12.4 PPG. We are in elite company defensively not just on the season, but historically. Last year's DEN defense was 18.5 PPG. The Legion of Boom in 2013 were 14.4 PPG. :govikes:

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:37 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: And then, there was one...
mansquatch wrote:
'85 Bears were 12.4 PPG. We are in elite company defensively not just on the season, but historically. Last year's DEN defense was 18.5 PPG. The Legion of Boom in 2013 were 14.4 PPG. :govikes:


They're in good company but it's early. It's going to be hard to sustain such a low number for 16 games. Many teams have done it over the years so it's possible but it's been pretty rare in the last few decades, when the rules have increasingly favored offense.

The only teams in this century to hold opponents to 12.6 ppg or less over a full season are:

2000 Ravens: 10.5
2000 Titans: 11.5
2002 Buccaneers: 12.2
2005 Bears: 12.6
2006 Ravens: 12.6

The 2001 Bears just missed the cut with 12.7

Historical perspective for our own team:

'69 Vikings: 9.5 ppg
'70 Vikings: 10.2 ppg
'71 Vikings: 9.9 ppg
'73 Vikings: 12 ppg
'76 Vikings: 12.6 ppg
'88 Vikings: 14.6 ppg

Maybe this year's defense will join the ranks of those Vikes teams and the other 21st century team mentioned above! They're playing like they could do it.


Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:56 pm
Profile
Career Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Posts: 2287
Location: Hawaii
Post Re: And then, there was one...
If anyone wants 11 minutes of entertainment...



_________________
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014


Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:16 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: And then, there was one...
808vikingsfan wrote:
If anyone wants 11 minutes of entertainment...





Stephen Smith is hard to watch now a days. Its literally all about the tone and entertainment value of his delivery. He could have been saying anything about anyone.


Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:56 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:24 am
Posts: 1499
Location: south minneapolis
Post Re: And then, there was one...
IrishViking wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
If anyone wants 11 minutes of entertainment...





Stephen Smith is hard to watch now a days. Its literally all about the tone and entertainment value of his delivery. He could have been saying anything about anyone.



His delivery, tho. Kind of like being in ch'ch.

_________________
"My anterior orifice is forever causing me extreme difficulty;
therefore, I shall endeavor to acquire some self-control."


Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:22 am
Profile
Starter

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:32 pm
Posts: 130
Post Re: And then, there was one...
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen, your Minnesota Vikings are the only undefeated team left in the NFL, and it will be that way for at least two weeks since we have our bye next week.
There are other teams who are looking really good (Dallas, Philly, Atlanta, New England), but it is nice to be the only undefeated team in the league. Hopefully the vikings can get healthy during the bye, especially on the OL!!


SKOL!


Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:31 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.