Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

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Does Peterson make the offense to predictable?

100% of the time.
1
4%
80%-100% of the time.
6
24%
60%-80% of the time.
3
12%
< than 60% of the time.
1
4%
Norv makes the offense too predictable
13
52%
Norv needs a random play generator.
1
4%
 
Total votes: 25

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Mothman
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by Mothman »

IrishViking wrote:He requires many touches to hit the home run to offset his tfls. This has been his style throughout his career. Needs upper 20s minimum go have a great AP game.
He doesn't need carries in the upper 20s to have a great game but when he gets that many carries, it's usually because he's having a great game. That's a silly argument anyway because he doesn't need to have "a great AP game" to be a major asset to the team.

Look, this is simple: block better, pass better and the TFLs become gains, punctuated by the big runs. He hasn't gained 11,725 on nothing but short gains and home runs. You keep conflating causes and effects, attributing the former to Peterson when TFLs and short gains have been more of the latter.
As for 09 I have never believed that season was APs doing. Brett Farve had the best season of his career and he was the focused by week 4.
I didn't say it was Peterson's doing. That season just flies in the face of the argument that "APs talents are for a run first team" and thus he can't be an effective RB in a more balanced offense.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by IrishViking »

Mothman wrote: He doesn't need carries in the upper 20s to have a great game but when he gets that many carries, it's usually because he's having a great game. That's a silly argument anyway because he doesn't need to have "a great AP game" to be a major asset to the team.

Look, this is simple: block better, pass better and the TFLs become gains, punctuated by the big runs. He hasn't gained 11,725 on nothing but short gains and home runs. You keep conflating causes and effects, attributing the former to Peterson when TFLs and short gains have been more of the latter.
I didn't say it was Peterson's doing. That season just flies in the face of the argument that "APs talents are for a run first team" and thus he can't be an effective RB in a more balanced offense.

He WAS that... 7 years ago and two knee injuries. He so far cant contribute in a pass first offense because he hasn't shown an ability to consistently get yards on first or second down in seven straight games, lets be frank, he had a 5 yard run yesterday, he was not about "to open it up" or "figure out GB"! The running game does a disservice to the passing game when it continues to hand the passing offense long 2nds, 3rds, and 4ths. And YES. It is Norvs fault, and YES it is the O-lines fault. But what is easier to "test" in season? Find 5 new O-linemen and coach them up mid week to play? Have a new OC installed mid week? Or have a 31 year old RB who has been struggling for 7 games take a week or two off and have the #2 RB on the depth chart, who has played a season as the starter and done fairly well, go in to see if he can work with what the OC and the O line is able to give him and produce more. I just don't get it. YES the running game as a totality sucks. YES if the Oline was better and maybe if norv was more creative it would have meant back to back 100 yard games to start the season, but that's not what happened. AP, as crazy as it is to say it, is the most replaceable part at this point because he isn't running the offense (Norv is doing a good job with the passing offense) and he isn't 3-5 guys working in concert on every play. It blows that this is how it happens but I would be shocked if Mckinnon and Asiata don't manage 100ish+ yards a game in tandem until AP comes back.

the Running game needs to get better and right now AP is the only thing we can switch up realistically.
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Mothman
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by Mothman »

Cutting off the nose to spite the face is always a poor solution.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by IrishViking »

Mothman wrote:Cutting off the nose to spite the face is always a poor solution.

After 7 extremely poor outings it looks like Mckinnon and Asiata will have the job of showing us whether or not AP is still a Nose or a Baby (bathwater)

odd turn of phrase

:lol:
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by Mothman »

IrishViking wrote:
After 7 extremely poor outings it looks like Mckinnon and Asiata will have the job of showing us whether or not AP is still a Nose or a Baby (bathwater)
"7 extremely poor outings" is an exaggeration. He had a 100 yard rushing performance in that stretch!
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by Mothman »

Here's something to chew on:
Sam Monson @PFF_Sam
This season #Vikings OL has gained Adrian Peterson an average of 6.9 INCHES before he is hit by a defender. That's...not good.
It's from PFF so take it with a grain of salt but... yikes.

Also:
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Adrian Peterson averaging 1.6 yds per carry so far - fewest rush yds per attempt by player w/ at least 30 rushes since 1970 NFL/AFL merger.
There's a rather obvious relationship between the info in the first tweet and that in the second.
IrishViking
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by IrishViking »

Mothman wrote: "7 extremely poor outings" is an exaggeration. He had a 100 yard rushing performance in that stretch!


6 extremely poor and one 104 yard effort in a total romp.


I get your point I just am struggling a little because historically the cliff comes fast for Running backs of a certain age. You tell me that AP runs for above 70 yards once in 8 games... That sounds like a cliff...
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by PurpleMustReign »

Mothman wrote:Here's something to chew on:
It's from PFF so take it with a grain of salt but... yikes.

Also:
There's a rather obvious relationship between the info in the first tweet and that in the second.
6.9 inches??? That's embarrassing. Even if they are off by one yard, he is still getting hit in the backfield every play.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by losperros »

I'm not sure it matters what we think of Adrian Peterson. Defensive coordinators around the league seem to think he's still dangerous.

As for Peterson's recent performances, he still won the rushing title last year even though the Vikings passing game was poor and the OL sucked.

I'd love to see a healthy AD in the backfield once Bradford is completely accustomed to the offense.

Of course, the OL will have to play a lot better. AD wore down late last season partly because the OL couldn't block anyone. Their lousy performance adversely affected the passing game as well. I don't want to see that same dynamic this year.

6.9 inches before contact? Pathetic.
Last edited by losperros on Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IrishViking
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by IrishViking »

To phrase my point in a total different way.

You tell me the running offense is terrible. That the Offensive line is struggling and that the play calling is poor and the Peterson is having a rusty year to start with.

I say, I agree completely on all points.

I look at the parts and how they interconnect with the rest and say

"welp lets see what combo works, and reach for peterson"

And everyone loses their minds...

Got to start somewhere, if you are testing the cars starter system. You check the battery first, even if you are pretty sure the starter is hosed, you check the battery because it is the easiest to check and swap.
Last edited by IrishViking on Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by TSonn »

The thing that gets me is that Asiata was able to rip off a 10 yarder the first time he got the ball in the 4th quarter. Now, obviously that's because the defense is not stacking the box against Matt Asiata, but isn't that also a huge benefit to the offense that they can't just sell out to stop the run and be successful?

People are talking about this like it's a good thing that defenses stack the box against AD but it seems to me that it benefits us for that NOT to happen so we can be equally successful on the ground and in the air.

And I get it that it's up to Norv to make the defense get out of stacking the box, but he wasn't really doing that with AD and maybe he'll be forced to now. That's also a potential positive of starting McKinnon/Asiata.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by PurpleMustReign »

TSonn wrote:The thing that gets me is that Asiata was able to rip off a 10 yarder the first time he got the ball in the 4th quarter. Now, obviously that's because the defense is not stacking the box against Matt Asiata, but isn't that also a huge benefit to the offense that they can't just sell out to stop the run and be successful?

People are talking about this like it's a good thing that defenses stack the box against AD but it seems to me that it benefits us for that NOT to happen so we can be equally successful on the ground and in the air.

And I get it that it's up to Norv to make the defense get out of stacking the box, but he wasn't really doing that with AD and maybe he'll be forced to now. That's also a potential positive of starting McKinnon/Asiata.
Let's see what AD does with an unstacked box. Asiata's runs and AD's runs are not apples to apples, you even said so yourself.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by IrishViking »

PurpleMustReign wrote: Let's see what AD does with an unstacked box. Asiata's runs and AD's runs are not apples to apples, you even said so yourself.

Asiata versus a 31 year old AP on one repaired knee and a torn meniscus might be :(
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by TSonn »

PurpleMustReign wrote: Let's see what AD does with an unstacked box. Asiata's runs and AD's runs are not apples to apples, you even said so yourself.
Will we ever see that, though? Even with Bradford throwing 70% and 16 yards per throw, the Pack didn't abandon that game plan. Maybe teams would start mixing it up if Bradford continues those types of stats but it probably still makes sense to stack the box and have the passing game beat them since an incomplete pass doesn't eat up the clock.
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Re: Does Peterson make the offense way to predictable?

Post by Mothman »

TSonn wrote:Will we ever see that, though? Even with Bradford throwing 70% and 16 yards per throw, the Pack didn't abandon that game plan.
They didn't abandon it but defensive focus on the run helped open up that passing and as that began to work effectively, it started to loosen up the defense and Peterson began having more success on the ground. He got injured before that trend could continue but it was clear.

Here are the results of Peterson's 12 carries on the night:

2 yards
no gain
-1 yard
no gain
-4 yards
+4 yards
+5 yards
+4 yards
+2 yards
-2 yards
+4 yards
+5 yards

Just 1 of his first 5 carries was for positive yardage. However, 6 of his next 7 carries were for positive yardage, most of them for 4 or 5 yards.
Maybe teams would start mixing it up if Bradford continues those types of stats but it probably still makes sense to stack the box and have the passing game beat them since an incomplete pass doesn't eat up the clock.
Sure, but if that means you get a lot of single coverage looks, it's still greatly beneficial to the offense.
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