I watch a fair bit. I personally don't think this is a weak WR class, perhaps it's not very deep, but I'd question that too. Doctson, Treadwell, Coleman... there are some seriously talented WRs that should go in the 2nd half of the first round. I think the "experts" have said it is a weaker group based on the combine numbers (read: 40 time), but there is a heck of a lot more to playing the position in a game than straight line speed without pads. If Doctson is there at 23, that would be a sweet pick for us. Watch some tape of how he pluck balls out of the air. His vertical at the combine showed one of his main strengths, but he also has impressive technique with body position, concentration, and hands. He comes down with balls that few guys could catch.
This is what I am saying!! The class is not deep but the top 3 are very good. And there projected range is right where we pick. Treadwell is expected to go before us but there is a chance he could fall to us as well. If we took Treadwell, Doctson or Coleman at 23, that wouldnt be "reaching" at all. Those are 3 very good WRs and would be solid picks not matter what way you look at it.
I personally have a feeling we are in love with Doctson. He's exactly what we need for Teddy. If Treadwell is there, then thats even better but Doctson is the perfect jump ball deep X WR for this team IMO. It's a no brainer if he's sitting there unless Treadwell is still available. And that has nothing to do with "reaching just because we need a WR". Doctson is legit
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
This is what I am saying!! The class is not deep but the top 3 are very good. And there projected range is right where we pick. Treadwell is expected to go before us but there is a chance he could fall to us as well. If we took Treadwell, Doctson or Coleman at 23, that wouldnt be "reaching" at all. Those are 3 very good WRs and would be solid picks not matter what way you look at it.
I personally have a feeling we are in love with Doctson. He's exactly what we need for Teddy. If Treadwell is there, then thats even better but Doctson is the perfect jump ball deep X WR for this team IMO. It's a no brainer if he's sitting there unless Treadwell is still available. And that has nothing to do with "reaching just because we need a WR". Doctson is legit
Yeah, Doctson is the guy I want. We'd be very fortunate to have him. He's a very dedicated player who spends a lot of time working at his craft. He doesn't JUST catch long balls either (as some of his highlight vids might lead one to believe). He was targeted on a good number of short slants and medium balls too. He is fast. Fast enough to get behind the secondary and once he does, he's got you beat, because no one can win jump balls like he can.
What I like about Treadwell is his physicality. YAC beast. I'd be less excited getting Coleman at #23, but I do like him better than Shephard. I know Baylor WRs haven't always found the same success in the NFL, but I think Coleman will break that mold.
I like all 3 WR's, but dont really want to pick once with our first pick. Shepards going to be there for our second pick if we like the small WR. I think we are pretty set on them right now.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I like all 3 WR's, but dont really want to pick once with our first pick. Shepards going to be there for our second pick if we like the small WR. I think we are pretty set on them right now.
We're set with DIggs, Johnson, Patterson, Wright, and Thielen??? I hope you're joking
I think we have to go Treadwell or Doctson if they are sitting there. If either of them are and we pass on them, I would be pretty ticked
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
my thoughts on the WR position. Our WRs are all potential. Diggs is a potential #1. CP despite what many people believe still has the potential to be a very good WR. Charles Johnson flashed potential. All three have the potential to be a #1, however all three of them are significant risks.
I think we need to draft a WR this year to add to the competition, but I don't think that HAS to be in the first round. Drafting a WR in round 1 is always a questionable decision, I've seen many arguments against it. For me, if a player is a clear #1 WR type, say a AJ Green, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham Jr, Mike Evans or a Sammy Watkins, it is worth the investment. But the problem with this draft class is there isn't any true #1 WR prospect. I like Treadwell, Doctson and Coleman, but do I believe there's a good chance any of them are #1 WRs? I don't know about that. In fact, I think all three are a little overrated in this process due to a lack of top end talent at WR. Some say that we can't pass on Treadwell if he falls to us, but to me, Treadwell's value doesn't really start until around where we draft.
The other thing about it, is the complaint that we can't go into the season with any combination from the group of WRs we have as our top 3 guys. But I don't see how drafting a WR in the first round changes that, especially in this draft class. I don't think it's any more likely that any WR in this class comes in and is a true #1 right out of the gate then it is likely that we find a true #1 from the group of WRs we have.
Ultimately the draft is never about just this year, so drafting a WR in the first round because it appears to be our greatest need this year is a move I'm not 100% sold on. Like others have said, left tackle is a massive need after this season (and I'd argue this season as well, since Kalil is IMO the weakest link on our oline). In fact, tackle in general is a huge question mark after this year. Guard is only marginally less concerning, but with Harris on a one year deal, RG becomes a pretty big need next year if Fusco doesn't return to form. Even center has it's question marks with Berger's age and Sullivan's injuries. While the current oline roster seems very crowded, I'd still lean towards drafting at least a few, and one hopefully early on in the draft. We've put a bandaid on the oline so far this off season, that shouldn't stop us from looking for long term solutions.
Defensive line is another position I could see us pursuing. Robison is likely on his last year and while Hunter is the clear replacement, Zimmer believes in the practice of never having enough pass rushers. I could even see us going after a DT this year in the first round because the talent is so rich. Some may not like me saying this, but Sharrif Floyd could be upgraded. And ultimately, Zimmer likes to rotate linemen a lot.
While I think drafting a LB in the first round is unlikely due to the fact that we'd be drafting a part time player in essence, I still wouldn't rule out taking Jaylon Smith, simply due to the fact that the value is just too good.
I would put safety on the list as well, but I don't see the value in this draft class for a first round safety.
To put it simply, I wouldn't rule out WR. But I don't think it's a must take position in the first round, even if Treadwell or Doctson were available.
A couple mock drafts they have us taking linebackers. One name mentioned was Leonard Floyd.
I think if Doctson is there we would take him. But you know how Zimmer likes his defensive players....BPA
saint33 wrote:my thoughts on the WR position. Our WRs are all potential. Diggs is a potential #1. CP despite what many people believe still has the potential to be a very good WR. Charles Johnson flashed potential. All three have the potential to be a #1, however all three of them are significant risks.
I think we need to draft a WR this year to add to the competition, but I don't think that HAS to be in the first round. Drafting a WR in round 1 is always a questionable decision, I've seen many arguments against it. For me, if a player is a clear #1 WR type, say a AJ Green, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham Jr, Mike Evans or a Sammy Watkins, it is worth the investment. But the problem with this draft class is there isn't any true #1 WR prospect. I like Treadwell, Doctson and Coleman, but do I believe there's a good chance any of them are #1 WRs? I don't know about that. In fact, I think all three are a little overrated in this process due to a lack of top end talent at WR. Some say that we can't pass on Treadwell if he falls to us, but to me, Treadwell's value doesn't really start until around where we draft.
The other thing about it, is the complaint that we can't go into the season with any combination from the group of WRs we have as our top 3 guys. But I don't see how drafting a WR in the first round changes that, especially in this draft class. I don't think it's any more likely that any WR in this class comes in and is a true #1 right out of the gate then it is likely that we find a true #1 from the group of WRs we have.
Ultimately the draft is never about just this year, so drafting a WR in the first round because it appears to be our greatest need this year is a move I'm not 100% sold on. Like others have said, left tackle is a massive need after this season (and I'd argue this season as well, since Kalil is IMO the weakest link on our oline). In fact, tackle in general is a huge question mark after this year. Guard is only marginally less concerning, but with Harris on a one year deal, RG becomes a pretty big need next year if Fusco doesn't return to form. Even center has it's question marks with Berger's age and Sullivan's injuries. While the current oline roster seems very crowded, I'd still lean towards drafting at least a few, and one hopefully early on in the draft. We've put a bandaid on the oline so far this off season, that shouldn't stop us from looking for long term solutions.
Defensive line is another position I could see us pursuing. Robison is likely on his last year and while Hunter is the clear replacement, Zimmer believes in the practice of never having enough pass rushers. I could even see us going after a DT this year in the first round because the talent is so rich. Some may not like me saying this, but Sharrif Floyd could be upgraded. And ultimately, Zimmer likes to rotate linemen a lot.
While I think drafting a LB in the first round is unlikely due to the fact that we'd be drafting a part time player in essence, I still wouldn't rule out taking Jaylon Smith, simply due to the fact that the value is just too good.
I would put safety on the list as well, but I don't see the value in this draft class for a first round safety.
To put it simply, I wouldn't rule out WR. But I don't think it's a must take position in the first round, even if Treadwell or Doctson were available.
halfgiz wrote:A couple mock drafts they have us taking linebackers. One name mentioned was Leonard Floyd.
I think if Doctson is there we would take him. But you know how Zimmer likes his defensive players....BPA
If you're going to give me a linebacker give me Darron Lee. I've become rather infatuated about a Barr-Kendricks-Lee trio. Probably would be the fastest, most athletic LB group in the league. Great unit in coverage and a scary blitzing tandem. Bring it.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet wrote:
If you're going to give me a linebacker give me Darron Lee. I've become rather infatuated about a Barr-Kendricks-Lee trio. Probably would be the fastest, most athletic LB group in the league. Great unit in coverage and a scary blitzing tandem. Bring it.
Lee reminds me a little bit of Derrick Johnson. He's certainly been productive, but I remember his college tape showing that he was not very physical and didn't take on blockers well. I haven't watched enough of him in the pros to see if he has improved in that regard, or still makes most of his plays by getting around blockers.
I'm just not certain Zimmer would be happy about that. If you stack up the blocker in front of you, you cut down a lot of angles. If you go around him you better make the tackle. I haven't looked into LBs too in depth yet, but I could see them grabbing a tackling machine like Matakevich in the 3rd to serve as a 2 down MLB. Kendricks and Barr on the outside would both play nickel.
I'm just skeptical they would invest a 1st rounder in an OLB who would either force Barr/Kendricks off the field or only be a 2-down backer. Maybe they could slide Barr to DE or effectively run some sort of hybrid that kept all 3 of them on the field and dropped a DT, etc. Its not impossible, I just don't see Lee being that guy. Only 6'1 218 and not that physical. He certainly does bring some crazy athleticism to the table though.
dead_poet wrote:
If you're going to give me a linebacker give me Darron Lee. I've become rather infatuated about a Barr-Kendricks-Lee trio. Probably would be the fastest, most athletic LB group in the league. Great unit in coverage and a scary blitzing tandem. Bring it.
What do you think about his Ohio St. teammate Joshua Perry?
6'4 254 led the team in tackles.
Bruglar:
STRENGTHS: Perry only knows how to play one speed with a nonstop motor, and his approach allows him to make stops other linebackers can't. He has strong hands and wrists to take on blocks and finish tackles, not allowing road blocks to slow him down in pursuit.
According to several close to the program, he is the "consummate teammate" due to his mature mental makeup and leadership traits on and off the field.
WEAKNESSES: Aggressive approach takes him out of plays at times.
fiestavike wrote:
Lee reminds me a little bit of Derrick Johnson. He's certainly been productive, but I remember his college tape showing that he was not very physical and didn't take on blockers well. I haven't watched enough of him in the pros to see if he has improved in that regard, or still makes most of his plays by getting around blockers.
I'm just not certain Zimmer would be happy about that. If you stack up the blocker in front of you, you cut down a lot of angles. If you go around him you better make the tackle. I haven't looked into LBs too in depth yet, but I could see them grabbing a tackling machine like Matakevich in the 3rd to serve as a 2 down MLB. Kendricks and Barr on the outside would both play nickel.
I'm just skeptical they would invest a 1st rounder in an OLB who would either force Barr/Kendricks off the field or only be a 2-down backer. Maybe they could slide Barr to DE or effectively run some sort of hybrid that kept all 3 of them on the field and dropped a DT, etc. Its not impossible, I just don't see Lee being that guy. Only 6'1 218 and not that physical. He certainly does bring some crazy athleticism to the table though.
Lee was 6'1/232 at the combine. Kendricks was 6'0/232.
Kendricks 40: 4.61
Lee: 4.47
Broad jump:
Kendricks: 124"
Lee: 133
I'm not sure they'd have to kick one of them off the field in nickel situations, as you said. FWIW I also like Matakevich, though their skill sets are very different. Lee does need to work on wrapping up and could play "stronger". I think playing behind beastly Joseph and our line can maximize his abilities. I also find this selection unlikely but I think it could prove very advantageous.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet wrote:
Lee was 6'1/232 at the combine. Kendricks was 6'0/232.
Kendricks 40: 4.61
Lee: 4.47
Broad jump:
Kendricks: 124"
Lee: 133
I'm not sure they'd have to kick one of them off the field in nickel situations, as you said. FWIW I also like Matakevich, though their skill sets are very different. Lee does need to work on wrapping up and could play "stronger". I think playing behind beastly Joseph and our line can maximize his abilities. I also find this selection unlikely but I think it could prove very advantageous.
It would certainly make for an interesting LB group. Interesting that Lee put on that much weight and still ran as well as he did.
Since we've recently talked LB/DE in this thread, I would like to point something out: we need to take a serious evaluation of what Danielle Hunter is.
A lot of his plays came from a two point stance last year. He was effectively a pass rushing specialist LB. He shouldn't be penciled in as the heir apparent to Robison, and we should also be cautious of drafting another speedy LB high in the draft.
If we draft a LB, I would hope it was a run stuffing 2 down back to pair with our already spectacular speed backers. That player would likely come later in the draft. I'm not sure how Hunter affects a possible early round DE, but I'm certainly not sold on him as the obvious long term answer yet.
I'm a huge fan of BPA, but if we found players with identical grades at our draft slot, if like to hit O-line and WR before DE or LB. I think our defense is talented and deep enough at this point where we can be afforded the luxury of spending picks in the later rounds and grooming the talent unless a player falls to us that is to good to pass up, and I'd really like to see how Hunter fits into the mix in year two before we potentially double down at a position that he would fill.
If we draft a LB, I would hope it was a run stuffing 2 down back to pair with our already spectacular speed backers. That player would likely come later in the draft. I'm not sure how Hunter affects a possible early round DE, but I'm certainly not sold on him as the obvious long term answer yet.
The old 260 plus thumping, run stopping MLB type is dying in the NFL .. Barr and Kendrick's type guys
are the future. From what I am seeing and hearing from the Vikings I think we are likely to take a NT in
the first Billings or Veron Buttler. If Jaylon Smith is there I could see us grabbing him or possibly moving
back up to grab him.
jackal wrote:
The old 260 plus thumping, run stopping MLB type is dying in the NFL .. Barr and Kendrick's type guys
are the future. From what I am seeing and hearing from the Vikings I think we are likely to take a NT in
the first Billings or Veron Buttler. If Jaylon Smith is there I could see us grabbing him or possibly moving
back up to grab him.
The trouble is they play less than your nickel corner, but they can still bring value to your team. De-valued but probably not dying. I think the Vikings run defense could be improved significantly with the addition of that kind of MLB.
