PurpleKoolaid wrote:
My point is, this year Johnson is doing better. Look it up.
It doesn't matter, as far as dropping one of them, we still owe too much money on them next year. I would love to see Davidson use the other guards and tackles we have, and replace people on the line, for like a series each. I believe we really need to see what Teddy and McKinnon are made of, but they need a better line then so far this year. McK did some serious running last week, but you can tell, he got hit right at the line, more times then not.
1) If that's true, why didn't you provide supporting evidence?
2) He's playing guard this year, not tackle.
I think we will be looking for another tackle. Today Kalil looked better, but that isn't saying much. We simply have to replace Johnson. No penalties for him. but he looks like a slow, lost guard right now.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I think we will be looking for another tackle. Today Kalil looked better, but that isn't saying much. We simply have to replace Johnson. No penalties for him. but he looks like a slow, lost guard right now.
Here's a thought... do you think Kalil has been struggling because he is trying to do too much to make for Johnson? I can't help but wonder if putting a quality guard next to him might raise his game back up.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa
BGM wrote:
Here's a thought... do you think Kalil has been struggling because he is trying to do too much to make for Johnson? I can't help but wonder if putting a quality guard next to him might raise his game back up.
This is exactly what I said. Loadholt looks WAY better when Fusco is next to him. I think Johnson is by far the worst lineman we have right now. That's why I've been so anxious to see Yankey but he's still inactive. We know what we have in Johnson. However, we know Kalil's potential. I would much rather give up on Johnson and put a legitimate LG there before we ever give up on Kalil. It is WAY too early to throw the towel in on Kalil. Johnson will be 31 next year and Kalil is still very young. LG should be our #1 priority when it comes to our offensive line no doubt.
I'm still scratching my head that some thought we should have dumped Kalil and moved Johnson back there
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
I still don't understand what Johnson is even doing on this team. He was cast off from Indy. I've heard him labelled as servicable. Really? at what cost to the whole? What is a stop gap guy doing starting year after year?
They brought him in to replace McKinnie and then moved him to guard rather than upgrading the guard position. I hope Yankey works out soon. It doesn't make any sense to me to cut corners on the o-line.
Maybe I'm way off base as far as what he brings to the position...he seems an easy guy to want to send packing.
The Breeze wrote:I still don't understand what Johnson is even doing on this team. He was cast off from Indy. I've heard him labelled as servicable. Really? at what cost to the whole? What is a stop gap guy doing starting year after year?
They brought him in to replace McKinnie and then moved him to guard rather than upgrading the guard position. I hope Yankey works out soon. It doesn't make any sense to me to cut corners on the o-line.
Maybe I'm way off base as far as what he brings to the position...he seems an easy guy to want to send packing.
I'm a big ol charlie johnson hater but at the same time, if we look back, you can easily argue that WR before Patterson / Jennings was in a worse situation. Same thing for CB's before Xhavier Rhodes was drafted and the captain signed. Then there's LB before Hodges, Mauti, and Barr were drafted.
I definitely agree that I wish we had a much better LG but at the same time, this team had so many holes to fill that I feel like no matter what we would be saying similar things about which ever position ended up being neglected.
mondry wrote:
I'm a big ol charlie johnson hater but at the same time, if we look back, you can easily argue that WR before Patterson / Jennings was in a worse situation. Same thing for CB's before Xhavier Rhodes was drafted and the captain signed. Then there's LB before Hodges, Mauti, and Barr were drafted.
I definitely agree that I wish we had a much better LG but at the same time, this team had so many holes to fill that I feel like no matter what we would be saying similar things about which ever position ended up being neglected.
Yes very good points!
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
That is a good and valid perspective, and it all depends on how you believe you build a team. Ihave been a long time advocate of building from the inside/out. Without a strong OL and DL, that puts added pressure on every other position on the field. The Vikings have had zero luck lately in finding good protection for the QB. This was not just a sudden hole in the fabric, but it was mitigated by having an All-History running back making the OL look much better than it was. On the defensive side, now that we have a DL capable of getting some pressure up the middle, it has helped the LBs and DBs. Of course, the added talent across the board, and a more aggressive scheme has also paid dividends, but if you have weakness in the trenches, you have a team built like a house of cards.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa
BGM wrote:That is a good and valid perspective, and it all depends on how you believe you build a team. Ihave been a long time advocate of building from the inside/out. Without a strong OL and DL, that puts added pressure on every other position on the field. The Vikings have had zero luck lately in finding good protection for the QB. This was not just a sudden hole in the fabric, but it was mitigated by having an All-History running back making the OL look much better than it was. On the defensive side, now that we have a DL capable of getting some pressure up the middle, it has helped the LBs and DBs. Of course, the added talent across the board, and a more aggressive scheme has also paid dividends, but if you have weakness in the trenches, you have a team built like a house of cards.
I completely agree. I do think that ADs abilities to gain yards after contact had pulled the wool over some eyes in the organization...or at least allowed them to draft weapons for the offense above foundational trench pieces.
it seems football 101 to me. So, simple even Jerry Jones has figured it out. People just are patient enough when it comes to building the foundation...and by that I mean owners and GMs.
I hope they get it right on the line this off-season...if they don't already have a stud in Yankey or Richardson.
Here's a great in depth article on what the Cowboys did to their line and why:
Prior to the season, many observers predicted Dallas' depleted defense could rank among the worst in history. But given the way the offense controls the clock by keeping the ball on the ground, it has been good enough.
That is why, sitting in his office at Valley Ranch last week, Cowboys executive Stephen Jones was smiling. The plan, concocted after quarterback Tony Romo broke his clavicle midway through the disastrous 2010 season, has worked.
"That's when we said, 'Look, if we don't start helping this offensive line, we're going to get our quarterback killed. We're not going to be able to run it. We're not going to be able to throw it, because we can't keep him up,'" Jones said. "'It's going to take time, but we've got to start the process.'"
I think the Vikes are closer than the 2010 Cowboys...given that Kalil can get his head on straight. I think Davidson is the bigger issue. AD made him look good too.
Ever since we had AD and no QB I wanted them to "pimp" out the offensive line because like BGM I think you win in the trenches and AD might just rush for 2500 yards behind a line like Dallas has. But it also helps young QBs so much to have time and protection and Wr's feel like they have the time to run their routes properly. It gets pretty close to a point where when the O-line is bad enough, it's really hard to get an accurate picture of everything else.
But I am confident we'll be spending a fairly hefty pick on the O-line this year, or spending some money in free agency.
mondry wrote:
I'm a big ol charlie johnson hater but at the same time, if we look back, you can easily argue that WR before Patterson / Jennings was in a worse situation. Same thing for CB's before Xhavier Rhodes was drafted and the captain signed. Then there's LB before Hodges, Mauti, and Barr were drafted.
I definitely agree that I wish we had a much better LG but at the same time, this team had so many holes to fill that I feel like no matter what we would be saying similar things about which ever position ended up being neglected.
To be honest, this is very similar to what I have been saying since 2012. We improve LT (at the time) and FS, but then people complain about CB and WR. We improve those two spots and then we complain about LB and QB. We improve that and now we are complaining about O-line and SS. You have to remember that it takes time for a rebuild. A lot of time to be honest. The fact that we are the 3rd youngest team in the league and still running with teams is a good sign. Our defense has a very bright future. If we now build around Teddy, we have what we've been looking for, for the most part.
It's literally impossible to fill all your holes right off the bat when you are a rebuilding team. You don't have enough early draft picks and money in free agency to ever do that. As Vikings fans, it's tough to be patient but there is no other way around it. We've came a long ways. Imagine if our offense could even be top 15 right now with the way our defense is playing. We would probably be over .500 if anything. The key is, we have to build around Teddy and fill a couple holes on the defense.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
I think the point about needing to fill positions other than LG is a valid one. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I think some people are giving Peterson a but too much credit for how the line has looked, though. They have been able to open some holes for Jerick, and AD didn't ever make the line look like better pass protectors. I think the issue is actually that we had a line built more for our RB than our QB, and now that our philosophies have shifted, it's more obvious.
Perhaps with a talented LG and Kalil rebounding, our line could be a lot closer than people think. With the ability that Loadholt brings when he run blocks, I would accept him as our weak link in pass protection, and it would give our line a nice balance.
