The Offensive line

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Laserman
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The Offensive line

Post by Laserman »

Mothman brought up a great topic in the last game thread. Just what is the problem with our Oline these days? In each of the 3 losses they looked just aweful. Are we gonna have pull a Dallas Cowboys move and start drafting Olinemen and rebuild this line. The packers ate our Oline for lunch. Something has got to change here. The game is won on the line and I don't think our Dline is any good either
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Mothman
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by Mothman »

Laserman wrote:Mothman brought up a great topic in the last game thread. Just what is the problem with our Oline these days? In each of the 3 losses they looked just aweful. Are we gonna have pull a Dallas Cowboys move and start drafting Olinemen and rebuild this line. The packers ate our Oline for lunch. Something has got to change here. The game is won on the line and I don't think our Dline is any good either
I obviously agree that something needs to change. Maybe they need to replace OL coach Jeff Davidson after the season but there are clearly some issues to resolve. I don't know if they're having communication issues, mental breakdowns, just getting physically beaten by the opposition too often... whatever it is, they've played very uneven football for too long and I thought they were awful against Green Bay. Something needs to change and it may be that they have to go the route Dallas did and make further high draft investments in the line.
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by Skolcanada »

I'm wondering if it has more to do with the qb involved. When teddy was in there they seemed to be inspired and I was impressed with the group overall. With Cassel and ponder they didn't look good at all. They even blocked better for the run.
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PurpleKoolaid
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

Weren't people here (and obviously on the Vikings staff) pretty big on Jeff Davidson? I don't think we have had a good Oline in years.

I find the most fault with us not picking up someone (or at least trying someone) for Johnsons spot at guard. I don't think Kalil is a good tackle, but Johnson next to him makes him look worse. We have to get used to having a TE or RB over on that side every play.
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Laserman
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by Laserman »

Not too keen on the idea of who the QB is cause we've only had one game with teddy. Even if Teddy elevates the teams effort that "high" won't last too long. I think a total rebuild like dallas has done is in order here. Loadholt, Johnson and Kaleel just ain't working for me. They have good moments but in my opinion are not CONSISTANT Dominate Lineman. The Big games are won in the trenches
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Skolcanada wrote:I'm wondering if it has more to do with the qb involved. When teddy was in there they seemed to be inspired and I was impressed with the group overall. With Cassel and ponder they didn't look good at all. They even blocked better for the run.
I agree 100%. Our line isn't great by any means but its not as bad as some are saying.

When it boils down, Cassel is not an athletic QB whatsoever. Not much more athletic than Eli Manning. If there is any kind of trouble in front of him, he's either getting hit or taking a sack. He can't move in the pocket and the quickness of his release is average to below average.

When it comes to Ponder, his release and ability to go through his progressions are horrible. As many of you saw, he held onto the ball wayyyy too long vs. GB. Any teams line can only hold up for so long.

Watch the difference in Bridgewater's release and how quick the ball is getting out of his hands: http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... efb2814fcc

Many times, the ball was out so quick that Atlanta couldn't even come close to getting a sack or hurry him. I truly believe that a heady, calm, smart decision making, athletic QB like Teddy makes everything so much better. I can bet money that if you put QB's like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, etc. behind our offensive line they would be fine when it came to being protected. Simply because of their quick release and ability to make smart quick decisions.

We're talking about how bad our line looked with Cassel and Ponder behind them. Neither being quick decision makers and neither ever being comfortable in a pocket no matter who was in front of them. Not trying to make excuses for our line but Teddy makes a HUGE difference. Johnson sucks and it kills us not having Fusco but notice how much "better" they looked vs Atlanta....and who played against Atlanta?? Teddy. Look at how much "worse" they looked when someone else was under center
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BridgeH2O
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by BridgeH2O »

No need to rag on the O-line just yet. They need some improvement but the QB under center has a lot to do with it as well. Sorry to say but if I was down in the trenches and just watched my QB(Ponder) throw a pick six, another pick, and then start to hold onto the ball for 4-5 seconds, I'd start letting guys through. You have to give your O-line a reason to want to fight for you. Seeing pick6Ponder back there throwing touchdowns to the Packers isn't going to inspire anyone. Give Teddy a few more starts back there and then judge the line play.


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tnvikesfan
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by tnvikesfan »

Our O-line has issues, but I don't think they're as bad as they look right now. It does make a huge difference who's at QB, and a mediocre O-line can look pretty good if you have a quick release, mobile QB. Also, if you have someone like Ponder in there who is slow and inaccurate, the D's know they can pull up the secondary and that makes the opponent's D line that much stronger because they can stunt without sacrificing a big gain by us. To run, you have to throw, to throw you have to run. They feed off each other and if you have an unbalanced offense it doesn't matter how good or big your O line is, you are still unbalanced.

I do agree we need work and possibly some new, big, space-takers on our O line. It's been weak since Dixon left, and that needs fixed if we are going to be true competitors.
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by mondry »

Here's another way to put it, Charlie Johnson was a serviceable left tackle playing for the Colts... Of course, when you only have to block for 1.5 seconds because Peyton Manning easily beats blitzes, steps up into the pocket, and gets rid of the football quickly it's probably not that hard...
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by Demi »

They've extended Sullivan, Fusco, and Loadholt. A top 5 left tackle in his rookie deal. Everyone knows the left guard is just a fill in.

And some people think we should blow it up and start over?
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

Demi wrote:They've extended Sullivan, Fusco, and Loadholt. A top 5 left tackle in his rookie deal. Everyone knows the left guard is just a fill in.

And some people think we should blow it up and start over?
My issue with the offensive line is its consistency, not necessarily its talent. I mean, one game they look dominant, then you get around two games of just par to sub-par play from the unit. This has been on going for seasons. The only thing I can say is that I am definitely glad we don't have the likes of Anthony Herrera and Ryan Cook as our starters. That was just awful.

That being said, this unit needs to perform. I know zone blocking is a tough scheme to execute consistently, but we need to get it going. Otherwise, we need to bring another coach who can run a zone blocking scheme effectively. I am starting to lose my trust in Jeff Davidson.
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by frosted »

HardcoreVikesFan wrote: My issue with the offensive line is its consistency, not necessarily its talent. I mean, one game they look dominant, then you get around two games of just par to sub-par play from the unit. This has been on going for seasons. The only thing I can say is that I am definitely glad we don't have the likes of Anthony Herrera and Ryan Cook as our starters. That was just awful.

That being said, this unit needs to perform. I know zone blocking is a tough scheme to execute consistently, but we need to get it going. Otherwise, we need to bring another coach who can run a zone blocking scheme effectively. I am starting to lose my trust in Jeff Davidson.
I don't believe our scheme relies on zone blocking much. Norv's system calls for man on man blocking.
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by 808vikingsfan »

Kalil rebounding, blocking out critics
After three straight weeks of getting negative grades from Pro Football Focus, Kalil has had his two best games of the season the last two outings, according to grades given by the site.
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Leafman
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Re: The Offensive line

Post by Leafman »

Kalil feeling a lot more comfortable
"Obviously in a game where you're behind like the Patriots (game) and you pass a lot, we might have had 35 or 40 pass sets, and I got beat on three, and you know that's a bad game. So it's a tough job we have and that's why I love to play Left Tackle, I love the competition and I love (facing) the guys I face and I like going out there and competing. I'm not going to let one bad game ruin my whole season. It's just something I have to improve upon."
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