I still believe in Ponder as a starting QB

[majorm]

Oh ok. Cassel has one decent game against the Steelers and everyone is like, "Cassel should start!!! Cassel should start!!!!" Ponder has one good game against the Redskins and still can't get the same respect.

Yeah, he wasn't horrible last night. And now you're even admitting it was his ONE good game.

[Just Me]

Oh ok. Cassel has one decent game against the Steelers and everyone is like, "Cassel should start!!! Cassel should start!!!!" Ponder has one good game against the Redskins and still can't get the same respect.

Don't forget that after Cassel had played two games, his worst performance was only 1 point lower (in Passer Rating) than Ponders best game. Ponder had a good game last night (not taking that away from him) and he deserves (credit for) the win. It still wasn't (in terms of passer rating) as good as Cassel's game in London. I always thought it funny that when some were referring to his "awful" game against the Panthers, it was basically the same performance as Ponder's best game (at that point in the season).

[psjordan]

Ponder had a "good" game and in the situation the team is in, I will take that in every game I guess. Being 1-7 going into the game gives you one perspective of what "good" QB play is like.

However even if Ponder continued this as his "average" performance, is any fan of this team going to be happy - or think we are going anywhere - with a 200 yard, 2 td, 1 int performance from our QB spot?

Ponder has fatal flaws as a "playoff caliber" QB. That has NOT changed in three years, nor do I expect it to ever change. Sure, we can plug him into a 1-7 team hoping he can help beat a dismal defense to get us to 2-7. That part worked well. And he will have at least one "great" game before the season is over, I'm kind of confident about that.

But again, he has fatal flaws. He is not The Guy.

[Mothman]

Don't forget that after Cassel had played two games, his worst performance was only 1 point lower (in Passer Rating) than Ponders best game. Ponder had a good game last night (not taking that away from him) and he deserves (credit for) the win. It still wasn't (in terms of passer rating) as good as Cassel's game in London. I always thought it funny that when some were referring to his "awful" game against the Panthers, it was basically the same performance as Ponder's best game (at that point in the season).

Passer rating is a useful tool but it's flawed as a measure of overall QB performance. Cassel's performance against Carolina was weak. He managed to boost his rating for that game with a late TD drive in garbage time but he and the offense were ineffective for the majority of the game. He added 6 completions, 77 yards and a TD to his stat line on a drive with 3:38 remaining in a 35-3 blowout. That's good for him but prior to that, his rating for the game was 59.70* and he was averaging well under 5 yards per attempt. Not good...

It's also old news. Cassel had a good game against Pittsburgh. Ponder had a good game against Washington and thank goodness for both performances because without them, the Vikes would be winless right now!

*Calculated using this site: http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html
The stats I used: 26 of 35 for 164 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs

[Just Me]

Passer rating is a useful tool but it's flawed as a measure of overall QB performance. Cassel's performance against Carolina was weak. He managed to boost his rating for that game with a late TD drive in garbage time but he and the offense were ineffective for the majority of the game. He added 6 completions, 77 yards and a TD to his stat line on a drive with 3:38 remaining in a 35-3 blowout. That's good for him but prior to that, his rating for the game was 59.70* and he was averaging well under 5 yards per attempt. Not good...

I agree the passer rating is not the "end all" but it is a good tool for measuring performance, especially when used "in context" like you did. It paints a more accurate picture of the performance. I have never taken the time to do so (I may have project, now ) but it would be interesting to see Ponder's passer rating in quarters 1-3 and then in Q4 to see if it supports or refutes the "garbage time stats" impression that I and others have concerning several of Ponder's games.

The Redskins game was a pretty good one (especially if you can throw out his first series).

[PondertoJennings]

Ponder played well. We all need to give him credit. Only one bad drive he had and the rest was good. He led us to the win even got hurt trying to make a big play. How many guys would have done that? 1-7 why get hurt? He proved to me that he wants to be a starting qb for us.

[King James]

Yeah, he wasn't horrible last night. And now you're even admitting it was his ONE good game.

Well I never said that Ponder has any good games prior to this one, this season. What I said is that I still thinks he has what it takes to be a starter. To be honest, neither QB has done much this season to solidify a permanent starting role. Both only had one good game. I still like Ponder of Cassel because I think he fits the system more. I think he has the read option toolset this team has been searching for. He just need to exploit it more. Well he did last night but got hurt. He's still young and still has time to improve. Cassel is at that age where most QBs have already been labeled as a starting QB or not. If he was as good as most fans here think he is, he would still be in KC.

[Mothman]

Maybe everyone should just make their signature something along the lines of "Ponder was okay in that game but he's not the future" and be done with it.

Honestly, it feels like at least 50% of the posts I've read on the board today have contained that qualification in one form or another. Relax folks! Nobody here is in a position to make actual decisions about Ponder's future with the team. It's okay to acknowledge that he a had a good game (or a "good" game) without qualifying it with statements about how he still isn't "the guy", "the future", etc. There's nobody here who can misinterpret your comments and then extend Ponder's contract and ignore the QB position next offseason.

It's okay. Really.

Now, one by one, I want each of you to point to the spot on the doll where Christian Ponder touched you.

* If that offends anyone, I apologize. I'm just trying to have some fun and I'm genuinely amused by how many people are feeling the need to qualify any statement they make about Ponder today with something along the lines of "He's not the answer".

[Delaqure]

Ponder had an excellent game last night against a really bad defense (worse than us coming into the game.) His throws were good and he saw the receivers better. Good for him. Hopefully he learns something from this. But honestly I don't have high hopes.

[PurpleMustReign]

Now, one by one, I want each of you to point to the spot on the doll where Christian Ponder touched you.

Done.

[PurpleMustReign]

Maybe everyone should just make their signature something along the lines of "Ponder was okay in that game but he's not the future" and be done with it.

Honestly, it feels like at least 50% of the posts I've read on the board today have contained that qualification in one form or another. Relax folks! Nobody here is in a position to make actual decisions about Ponder's future with the team. It's okay to acknowledge that he a had a good game (or a "good" game) without qualifying it with statements about how he still isn't "the guy", "the future", etc. There's nobody here who can misinterpret your comments and then extend Ponder's contract and ignore the QB position next offseason.

It's okay. Really.

Now, one by one, I want each of you to point to the spot on the doll where Christian Ponder touched you.

* If that offends anyone, I apologize. I'm just trying to have some fun and I'm genuinely amused by how many people are feeling the need to qualify any statement they make about Ponder today with something along the lines of "He's not the answer".

Honestly Jim, I think we are saying that because we are hoping to somehow telepathically get a message to the Vikings that two decent games does NOT a franchise QB make. I am scared to death that Frazier is thinking "YES!! We have our man!!" and they will draft everything but a QB next year. I am sick of this team playing the equivalent of a wounded horse every week, and I don't want to see Ponder on the field next season for the Vikings, unless it is STRICTLY backup duty.

[King James]

I guess when you say Cassel didn't stay at KC, you can say Favre didn't stay at Atlanta, Manning didn't stay at Indianaopolis.

You can't compare those 3 at all.

Manning got ditched because the team was ready to get younger. He's getting old and is getting hurt more. But he gave the Colts many of great seasons, even a super bowl win. He stayed in Indy for years.


As for Favre, the Altanta Falcons coach at the time didn't even want to give Favre a chance. I remember him saying that it would take a plane's crash to put Favre in the game? Plus the Packer's GM offered a 1st round pick for a guy the Falcons clearly didn't want.

Now Cassel, was brought into KC to be "the guy." He had one good season and after that he just couldn't cut the mustard. But the fact is, he was given a chance to be a franchise QB. He failed. To even compare a guy like Cassel to two future HoFs is just disrespectful..lol

[Mothman]

Done.

LOL! You poor, poor man...

Honestly Jim, I think we are saying that because we are hoping to somehow telepathically get a message to the Vikings that two decent games does NOT a franchise QB make. I am scared to death that Frazier is thinking "YES!! We have our man!!" and they will draft everything but a QB next year.

I think that's what a lot of people are probably feeling and it's understandable (although i'd worry about Spielman more than Frazier since he'll make the call). I'm just amused by the sheer volume of similar qualifications to posts I've seen today. It says so much about the psychological; state of Vikings fans right now.

I am sick of this team playing the equivalent of a wounded horse every week, and I don't want to see Ponder on the field next season for the Vikings, unless it is STRICTLY backup duty.

I understand. I want to see them upgrade the position too.

[maembe]

Ponder had a "good" game and in the situation the team is in, I will take that in every game I guess. Being 1-7 going into the game gives you one perspective of what "good" QB play is like.

However even if Ponder continued this as his "average" performance, is any fan of this team going to be happy - or think we are going anywhere - with a 200 yard, 2 td, 1 int performance from our QB spot?

If his performance last night was his average, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We'd being enjoying our Pro-Bowl, franchise QB and a trip to the playoffs. Of course we'd be happy.

[S197]

I mentioned this is the game thread but stuff in there gets buried so I'll reiterate. I liked the up tempo play calling in the first half, it seems like when Ponder has to move quickly it gives him less time to overthink things. They spread the formation out a little more, played some shotgun, and let him roam a bit. The playaction is tough because defenses sell out to stop AD and when you compress a defense to 8 or 9 in the box, typically someone will be chasing down the QB unless everyone bites on the playaction. By using the shotgun they were able to spread them out of the box and allow Ponder to work a little more with his feet. I know we'd all love to see Ponder become more of a pocket passer but he's shown that he's incredibly uncomfortable doing it. They're better off just letting him play off instinct.

No part of this method is intended to be any sort of endorsement for Christian Ponder and his status as starter for the Minnesota Vikings. The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and may not, under any circumstances, be regarded as representing an official position of the VMB. All Christian Ponder as starter campaigns are prohibited.