What a disappointment

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DanAS
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by DanAS »

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:How did I know the "Ponder is a wimp" stuff would start. Frazier even said it wasn't about pain tolerance. It wasn't like Ponder said "no I'm too hurt."

Frazier said he had no range of motion and swelling in his elbow/triceps. If the coaches thought he could play I'm sure they woulda had him do so instead of Webb. This was the playoffs not Week 5.

Ponder isn't all that great and has a "noodle arm" at 100%, would you really him playing still when he can barely throw?
That is powerful logic -- it's not like Ponder's arm has any margin for error. Brett Favre, he's not. The problem, on the other hand, is that Joe Webb was doing things that would piss me off if I saw it from the QB of Richard Montgomery High School. Even an injured Ponder would have been an improvement.

But I blame this fiasco not on Ponder -- who at least deserves a roster spot as a backup QB --but on Frazier/Spielman for treating the QB position like it's one of the least important positions on the team, and can be effectively manned by a backup caliber guy and a bunch of practice field guys. Truly, the team's off-season inattentiveness to this most crucial of positions is inexplicable.

Just how bad was Webb last night? It's difficult to understate his skills as a pocket passer (which, strangely, is how he was used). I want to take everyone back to the first quarter of last night's game. It's third down from close to mid-field and Webb is about to be sacked. Does he take the sack? Of course not. He hurls it up in the air blindly -- not far enough that it would help us if miraculously a Viking caught it, but plenty high enough for a Packer potentially to intercept it. That's a play that a high school kid shouldn't make. Heck, a 10 year old football fan who never played the game should have the instincts to take the sack under those circumstances. At that point, any hopes I had that the Vikes would win the game were completely gone -- even though the ball fell harmlessly to the ground.

The bad news is that NFL caliber QBs are hard to come by. The good news is that we could practically rob graves to replace the gang we have and we would still find upgrades at the position.
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LA Viking
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by LA Viking »

I agree with everyone saying Webb sucked, but you can't really blame him that much (that was a really tough spot to be in: playoff game at Lambeau having never thrown a pass in the regular season). And of course this is ultimately on the brain trust (Spielman/Frazier), but that is even missing the point IMO. The real person who should shoulder a lot of the blame for this game is Musgrave. The playcalling was pretty bad outside of the first drive. It's like they didn't even take into account that it was Webb in there and not Ponder. There should have been much more roll outs, bootlegs, option-reads, and just general use of his athleticism (which is really all he has going for him).
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by PurplePPLEater »

Agree that we could use a veteran backup. I would rather wait until next years draft to look into drafting a QB because I'm not sure there are any worth wasting a pick on this year.

Agree with anyone who's defending Ponder in this thread. Webb hasn't played one snap all season. Not saying Ponder's the toughest QB out there, but this wasn't a matter of toughness. If he can't throw the ball effectively, he does the team no good by being out there.
vikerfan
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by vikerfan »

Ponder beats the Packers in week 17 and suddenly Fans forget how lousy he played all year, then one game with Webb under these circumstances and it's like Webb is worse than Ponder from week 1 through week 16. That's garbage! The coaches should have played Webb as a Receiver or some other capacity this year if not using him as a quarterback, the guy is a horse. He's the fastest quarterback in the NFL. What exactly are the physical attributes that make Ponder a great franchise QB? His accuracy was terrible on average and is responsible for the losses to Tampa Bay, Seattle and the first Packers game. The other games he shared half the blame easily.
Orion
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by Orion »

What a disappointment we can't play without crucial injuries. With a healthy Ponder, Harvin and Winfield, I think we're a better team than the Packers. Not to mention some other smaller injuries like Jared Allen.
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Lash Man
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by Lash Man »

vikerfan wrote:Ponder beats the Packers in week 17 and suddenly Fans forget how lousy he played all year, then one game with Webb under these circumstances and it's like Webb is worse than Ponder from week 1 through week 16. That's garbage! The coaches should have played Webb as a Receiver or some other capacity this year if not using him as a quarterback, the guy is a horse. He's the fastest quarterback in the NFL. What exactly are the physical attributes that make Ponder a great franchise QB? His accuracy was terrible on average and is responsible for the losses to Tampa Bay, Seattle and the first Packers game. The other games he shared half the blame easily.
OK if you blame him for the losses do you give him credit for the wins ?
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by Purple Reign »

I really don't understand how people are blaming Ponder for not playing. First of all, it wasn't his elbow, it was a badly bruised triceps, which is similar to a deep thigh bruise and if anyone has ever had an injury like that, they know it's not just a matter of 'sucking it up'. He tried to go in warmups, but couldn't raise his arm high enough to get any velocity on the ball. Secondly, it wasn't his decision not to play, it was a coaching decision to inactivate him - so everyone just quit blaming Ponder - unbelievable!! :steamed:
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chicagopurple
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by chicagopurple »

WEBB represents a TOTAL FAILURE of both him as a QB and the Coaching staff....having had 2 years to "Coach him UP", he was clearly physically/mentally unable to be a QB in the NFL....his favorite receiver appears to be the dirt on the field 5 yards behind or 20 past the receivers!! The so-called QB caoches and talent assesment people in the Vikes offices need to be fired...they are useless.....for the first time EVER I am embarassed to be a Vikes Fan.....THAT was PITIFULL
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chicagopurple
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by chicagopurple »

and as far as PONDER....he is NOT a NFL QB for a team who is honestly trying to win the Super Bowl.....He is the kinda Journeyman who the best you can hope for is that he doesnt cost you the game.....thats just a sad pitiful standard to hope for...NOT FRIGGIN GOOD ENOUGH
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by mansquatch »

This is funny, the guy doesn't even play and the loss is still his fault.

For those calling Ponder a wimp, how do you know that Ponder was the one who made the call to not play. Or was it the coaches? Would seem you can't call him a wimp if the coaches decided on Webb. Of course, who knows who made the call, so bash away.

The game was a disappointment from the very beginning. The Packers beat us when we were shorthanded. That is a fair victory, but it hardly feels like we put our best foot forward. I think had we fielded both Ponder and Harvin the game would have unfolded very differently. That alone gives me reason to be excited for next season.
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by VikingLord »

johnpf12345 wrote: 1) Maybe i'm being overly critical but I feel Ponder is a wimp. He finished the game last week after he dinged his elbow. So you couldnt go this game? There is NO tomorrow, have all offseason to recuperate. I guess I would have liked to be at Lambeau to see him throw early (as I heard he did) to see how bad it was. If the throws were effective but it was that he just had some pain, bite the bullet for the team or take a shot for pain klike Winfield did. Lord knows when the next time you will get a chance to be in the playoffs. Get some inspiration from some of the other veterans like Winfield.
Do you really think the Vikes had a much better chance with Ponder at QB? I don't.

Had Musgrave called an offensive game designed to leverage Webb's strengths they would have stood a better chance. Of course, the late call to keep Ponder out probably made that harder, but given the knowledge that Ponder was hurt I think Musgrave should have prepared for that possibility.

Oh well, they live and they learn. As far as I'm concerned QB is still a major area of concern on this team and Spielman (and Frazier) really need to make sure they have a viable vet who can challenge for the starting job next year. If they can snag a younger guy who could be legit competition as well, all the better, but this team's QB situation is without a doubt the #1 priority for the offseason regardless of Ponder's injury.
johnpf12345 wrote: 4) Love Jerad Allen but I saw two or three plays in the first half where the ball was snapped and he seemed to still stay in his stance for almost a full second. Whats up with that? Somehow trying to bait the OT?
Tough to get a jump on the snap on the road with the crowd noise.

Allen didn't have a monster year by any objective measure, but that's not surprising coming off a year where he nearly set the sack record. I expect him to bounce back next year, especially considering it's a contract year for him (IIRC).
johnpf12345 wrote: 5) Nice going Jasper, give them the touchdown instead of the field goal (not that it mattered in the end). I hate how the rule has been changed, with the penalty being called before the offense even snaps the ball. That is s crock to me, I've seen in other games also. Whatever happened to an extra player trying to sprint off the field before the snap.
I agree it's a crock, and more importantly, I hate that Brinkley got blamed for it as I doubt it was his fault. I think Frazier said as much and that the Vikes had 2 DE's in the same spot on that kick. Brinkley was supposed to do the count and when he did and found 12, he tried to get off.
johnpf12345 wrote: 6) I dont know why they dont line up and then run AP from three or four receiver sets at times to free up the congestion at the line some. If the safties are going to cheat, work some more play action in there from those sets.
7) Obviously this team needs more legitimate recievers that can get some seperation. Dont understand what was up with Harvin. Did he really need to go in IR or was this a mistake move by management, its been over two months since the sprain, he couldnt have helped by now?
Packers just lined up and stayed in their gaps. It was extremely effective against the run and prevented AD from breaking off big gainers, but all the same it left the Packers woefully exposed for big hitters down the field and the Vikes just couldn't take advantage of it. If I'm Spielman watching this game I know exactly what needs to be done this offseason. Vikes have to find a legit QB who can hit targets down the field, and he needs at least one other legit deep threat in addition to Harvin and Wright who can stretch the field. Against anyone else the Packers would have paid dearly for the way they played defense on Saturday night. Spielman has to make sure the Vikings field an offense next season that will make them pay for it if they try that again.
johnpf12345 wrote: 8) Its gonna be a long few years with ARod around, he is a complete Viking (and North division) killer.
Bah. I have all the respect in the world for Rodgers, but he and the Packers were not that great most of this year and the Vikes finally overcame them in that last game at the Metrodome. As good as Rodgers is, the sun is starting to set for the Packers. They really struggled this season and with the right moves this offseason I see the Vikings being very stiff competition for them next year.
johnpf12345 wrote: On the positive side, it was a good run the final four weeks, they played well. lets look forward to a good draft, sprinkle in some free agents (use any available cap room), hope ponder improves so we dont have to start over again, and have a successful 2013 season. This helped a bit to get some things off my chest so thanks for that, what a disappointing day, knew it was going to be awful tough, if not impossible, when it was announced Ponder wouldnt play. Also a great draft getting Harrison Smith and Kalil. Couple of good anchors for years to come.
It was a great season. The Vikes far exceeded my expectations and honestly, Frazier impressed the heck out of me by getting this group to the playoffs during a very tough stretch of games in December.

With that said, Vikes have serious problems at QB, guard, WR, LB, and in the defensive backfield yet. They don't have anyone who can replace Winfield. Their younger guys have been inconsistent. Smith looks like a keeper and I'm hopeful Robinson is too, but Cook is all over the play as is Raymond. This group is still up in the air.
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by Mercy Percy »

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Isnt this the same crap ponder has had for years, even in college? Is the no fix for it? BTW who did have the final say on wether or not he plays? Fraizer Musgrave or Ponder? Playoff games with AD may not come along very often anymore?
Again NO! He had an elbow contusion that went with his tricep. His injruy in college was a Elbow Bursa injury which are sacs that comfort the elbow not related to the tricep/ injury he had. this was from morgan burnett's hit on him
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Tark10
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Re: What a disappointment

Post by Tark10 »

Either convert Webb back to a receiver or cut him. Bring in an NFL QB veteran.Keeping him appears to be a wasted roster spot. I knew Webb wouldn't do much, but I did expect more then we got. He's been around for 3 years and should have been able to be more productive then he was. He looked like a first year rookie playing in his first game. Nobody expected 10 wins from this team. The future looks bright. The off-season will add a few more pieces to the puzzle and they should be a more well-rounded team in 2013.
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