Improved secondary: parallel situation WR

[Texas Vike]

This has been a good thread so far. There's been some great, intelligent discussion!

I agree that a big free agent signing like Bowe may be unlikely if they sign Harvin to a new deal. I'm not if they can afford to give two WRs top 10 pay and that's probably what it would take to make that happen.

I expect Carlson to get another year to show he can actually make a more substantial contribution. At WR, I'm not sure the choice between big-bodied possession receiver or speed receiver is really that significant since many WRs fall somewhere between those two categories or fit both. For example, Calvin Johnson is fast and can make those possession catches but players like that are obviously hard to find. They bottom line is they need a good-sized, skilled playmaker on the outside. Harvin and Wright give the Vikes speed but they don't give them the height to make big catches in traffic down the field. Speedy receivers are great if the skills are there but "fast enough" (Ie: Sidney Rice's speed) will work just fine with the right skill set. CC wasn't the burner Moss was but he could beat defenders deep and brought skills to the table that were in some ways more important. The Vikes need an outside receiver their QB can rely on, a player that creates genuine matchup problems. How he creates those matchup problems is less important than his ability to create them.

That's my take anyway...

Jim

As often occurs when I read your takes, I found myself nodding in agreement while reading this.

I don't expect a major overhaul at WR this offseason. I suspect that coaches and front office do not perceive it to be as desperate of a situation as our secondary was last year. However, I do believe they will draft a WR or two in the first four rounds of the draft. I agree with their approach that FA singings have to be limited and approached with much circumspection. If not, you become the Eagles. But, if we don't address the position via FA or trade, we need to be drafting WRs regularly to get some fresh talent in to develop.

[Mothman]

As often occurs when I read your takes, I found myself nodding in agreement while reading this.

I don't expect a major overhaul at WR this offseason. I suspect that coaches and front office do not perceive it to be as desperate of a situation as our secondary was last year. However, I do believe they will draft a WR or two in the first four rounds of the draft. I agree with their approach that FA singings have to be limited and approached with much circumspection. If not, you become the Eagles. But, if we don't address the position via FA or trade, we need to be drafting WRs regularly to get some fresh talent in to develop.

Agreed. I don't know if the Vikings perceive WR as the same kind of desperate situation they faced with the secondary after last year but I have little doubt they will perceive it as a need this offseason so your take in the post that started this thread makes sense. We can draw some encouragement from the way the secondary was addressed this offseason and hope WR will see similar progress next year.

They may not be done in the secondary either. Raymond and Cook have had trouble staying on the field and Winfield will retire at some point so I won't be surprised if Spielman adds some more secondary players in the next draft or two.

[mansquatch]

Jim, the issue I see isn't with the merits of your arugment, but the fact that they seem unlikely to spend the kind of FA $$$ it will take to get someone with that combination of stats. Megatron is a freak, but we are not going to get a WR with that combination of genetics and ability this go since we are not picking high enough and probably will not spend the FA $$ should one hit the market.

So in that sense, I think the either / or question is relevant. My hypothesis on the burner vs. hands guy is more about what they want to do on offense. I think they need a field stretcher if they are going to do the 2 TE thing. Otherwise, regardless of the QB, all of your pass catchers are most effective within 0-15 yards. You need a guy in that mix that makes the Safety hesitate, otherwise the LOS is going to get very crowded.

This is why I think they'll keep Jerome Simpson around more likely than dive into FA. He has the height and the speed they want. Consistency is the main issue, but in hearing Frasier speak it sounds like the team, at least publicly, thinks that is the driver of his down performance this season.

They definitely need upgrades on the outside. I'm just wondering if the upgraders are already on the team (in the view of the coaches/FO) and jsut need to get healthy?

[Mothman]

Jim, the issue I see isn't with the merits of your arugment, but the fact that they seem unlikely to spend the kind of FA $$$ it will take to get someone with that combination of stats. Megatron is a freak, but we are not going to get a WR with that combination of genetics and ability this go since we are not picking high enough and probably will not spend the FA $$ should one hit the market.

Oh, I agree. I was using Johnson as an example of a receiver who can be both a big possession receiver and a speedy deep threat but there won't be a "Calvin Johnson" in free agency and it's rare to find a player like that in the draft. He's simply exceptional.

So in that sense, I think the either / or question is relevant. My hypothesis on the burner vs. hands guy is more about what they want to do on offense. I think they need a field stretcher if they are going to do the 2 TE thing. Otherwise, regardless of the QB, all of your pass catchers are most effective within 0-15 yards. You need a guy in that mix that makes the Safety hesitate, otherwise the LOS is going to get very crowded.

Again, I agree. I just don't necessarily think it has to boil down to burner vs. hands since those characteristics obviously aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, the distinction I was trying to make is that they desperately need someone who can be a good all-around outside receiver for them, not a specialist. They need someone with good size and speed but it doesn't have to be someone with blazing speed or a 6' 5", 230 pound receiver. What they need most of all is production so while size and speed have to be considerations, I hope they look primarily at skill and production.

I hope that makes sense. It seems like we're thinking along similar lines: get someone on the outside that worries safeties, creates matchup problems and can produce.

Simple, eh? It would be easy to be a GM!

They definitely need upgrades on the outside. I'm just wondering if the upgraders are already on the team (in the view of the coaches/FO) and jsut need to get healthy?

It's possible that they'll see Simpson as someone worth bringing back if they feel he can stay healthy and contribute next year but I hope they don't really see him as a solution because I think they need someone who give them more production than he's ever had as a pro. That said, if he can produce at the level he did in his last season with the Bengals, he'd definitely be worth keeping.

[S197]

Again, I agree. I just don't necessarily think it has to boil down to burner vs. hands since those characteristics obviously aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, the distinction I was trying to make is that they desperately need someone who can be a good all-around outside receiver for them, not a specialist. They need someone with good size and speed but it doesn't have to be someone with blazing speed or a 6' 5", 230 pound receiver. What they need most of all is production so while size and speed have to be considerations, I hope they look primarily at skill and production.

Keenan Allen. He's versatile like Harvin as he plays split wide, in the slot, and in the backfield. He's also a decent returner. He doesn't have the speed that Harvin does but he has the size (6'3), great hands, and solid route running. I think he fits this offense well as he's not afraid of contact and will catch footballs over the middle not just on go routes. His PCL injury will hurt his draft stock which is why the Vikings may have a shot at him. It's a risky pick but I think he's the type of guy Spielman would go after.

[mondry]

Heres the thing I think we're over looking. When talking about WR's, so often it's Big target or speedster but what I think we REALLY need is a precise route runner who's obviously some mixture of both big / fast.

When I think of some of Ponder's issues or mistakes, a lot of it is confidence in his guys, and I think a big part of that has to do with nearly all of them being poor route runners. We've seen it from Simpson, it's been the biggest knock on aromashadou by far, I don't think Burton is very good at it either. Harvin does it well but he's out, and Jenkins is probably the 2nd best and he does have the OK size but horrible speed and can't get separation.

Again using Bowe as the mold, he's exactly the type of WR we need. Slightly above average speed, slightly above average size, but strong route runner and that's why someone awful like Matt Cassell still routinely gets him the ball.

We need a WR who can run proper routes and build timing and chemistry with Ponder so he has the confidence to throw it into where the receiver is suppose to be without worry. Again with AD, I don't think we need a guy to go get 50 yard bombs, that'd be nice but to me I'd rather have someone you can rely on, on 3rd and 6 to move the chains. We simply don't have THAT receiver.

[Mothman]

Keenan Allen. He's versatile like Harvin as he plays split wide, in the slot, and in the backfield. He's also a decent returner. He doesn't have the speed that Harvin does but he has the size (6'3), great hands, and solid route running. I think he fits this offense well as he's not afraid of contact and will catch footballs over the middle not just on go routes. His PCL injury will hurt his draft stock which is why the Vikings may have a shot at him. It's a risky pick but I think he's the type of guy Spielman would go after.

I can definitely imagine Spielman selecting Allen. By the way, that's exactly who Scott Wright has the Vikings drafting in his latest mock:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php

[S197]

I can definitely imagine Spielman selecting Allen. By the way, that's exactly who Scott Wright has the Vikings drafting in his latest mock:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php

Cool! Someone posted another mock where I think we took Ogletree and Allen went to the Packers

Obviously it's real early to be talking about the draft but I think he's the type of receiver the Vikings should look for, if not specifically him.

[mansquatch]

I bet we can get Cassell on the cheap! HA!

[Texas Vike]

Keenan Allen. He's versatile like Harvin as he plays split wide, in the slot, and in the backfield. He's also a decent returner. He doesn't have the speed that Harvin does but he has the size (6'3), great hands, and solid route running. I think he fits this offense well as he's not afraid of contact and will catch footballs over the middle not just on go routes. His PCL injury will hurt his draft stock which is why the Vikings may have a shot at him. It's a risky pick but I think he's the type of guy Spielman would go after.

Initially, he didn't make much of an impression on me, but this write up fleshes out a lot of the points you make and has videos embedded. Can you imagine having two Percy Harvins? We'd be scary good.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1434 ... ing-report

[PurpleKoolaid]

If we do indeed go the WR route with the draft, i bet we take Hunter. But we still have no one to trow the ball to him. We need good guards whoever the QB will be. More then WRs.

[Dark]

I think Justin Hunter is the guy we need. If he is still available when it's our pick, i say get him. if not, we should pick up Keenan Allen. Here are Justin Hunter's receptions from a game this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T90LUDD4LpQ

He is a big guy and can make moves on defenders very well. Let me know what you think. He can also catch deep balls. Some of the clips from the video are showing his great effort and blocking abilities as well.

[PurpleKoolaid]

You can find guards in the mid-late rounds more so than WRs.

Again we have opposite views. We havent found guards yet, heck we are playing Johnson! And our WR are open, we just dont have a QB to get them the ball. Wright was a 4th rounder. They just didnt play him for whatever reason. But our guards, and their rotations are horrible at pass protection. horrible. Any guard can block.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I think Justin Hunter is the guy we need. If he is still available when it's our pick, i say get him. if not, we should pick up Keenan Allen. Here are Justin Hunter's receptions from a game this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T90LUDD4LpQ

He is a big guy and can make moves on defenders very well. Let me know what you think. He can also catch deep balls. Some of the clips from the video are showing his great effort and blocking abilities as well.

Yep I been preaching Hunter all season. I think we can get him with our second pick, and hes viewed by some as at least the 3rd WR in the draft. We got enough speedy little guys.

[Dark]

Yep I been preaching Hunter all season. I think we can get him with our second pick, and hes viewed by some as at least the 3rd WR in the draft. We got enough speedy little guys.

I read something that predicted him to go top 25, so that is why I said if we can't get hime, get Keenan Allen.