Vikes/Bears post-game thoughts

[dead_poet]

Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings

Sunday provided an opportunity to recognize the work of the Vikings' draft class. Five of its members were in the starting lineup Sunday: Left tackle Matt Kalil, safety Harrison Smith, cornerback Josh Robinson, receiver Jarius Wright and tight end Rhett Ellison (as part of a three-tight end set). Smith's 56-yard touchdown on an interception return proved the difference in the scoring. Robinson's first-quarter interception and return set up another touchdown. Kalil did his part in limiting the Bears' defensive line to one sack and one hit of quarterback Christian Ponder. It's worth noting that the second-quarter holding penalty Kalil received while trying to block defensive end Julius Peppers was his first holding call of the season, declined or accepted. (This one was declined.) No matter how this season turns out, the Vikings should feel proud to have won at least seven games with so many rookies playing prominent roles.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... vikings-43

[BGM]

Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... vikings-43

That right there, is why I have real confidence in Spielman and Frazier. To go from 3-13 to 7+ wins in a season with these young guys playing prominent roles... it is an achievement that cannot be overestimated. Imagine if Greg Childs had not suffered that terrible injury.

[Demi]

That comparison also underscores the need for the Vikings to remain flexible when thinking about the QB position and how best to address it.

Like when Cutler is in the draft, and they don't want to pay the price for him. Or when he's available via trade and they don't want to pay the price for him.Both times it was reported the Vikings were interested. Or Manning is available and they're completely disinterested, not even in the hunt. They need to get serious about it. Wasting a pick on the best QB available isn't going to get it done....either address it. Or sign a competent free agent and wait until there's someone available worth addressing it with.

[Purple bruise]

Like when Cutler is in the draft, and they don't want to pay the price for him. Or when he's available via trade and they don't want to pay the price for him.Both times it was reported the Vikings were interested. Or Manning is available and they're completely disinterested, not even in the hunt. They need to get serious about it. Wasting a pick on the best QB available isn't going to get it done....either address it. Or sign a competent free agent and wait until there's someone available worth addressing it with.

This has been discussed over and over and over appatrently some "fans" won't let it go. There was/is nothing written or talked about that Manning had any interest in playing for the Vikings so somehow get that idea out of your mind. Cutler? what has he done and or accomplished? The way you criticize all of the Viking's coaches, players, Gm's I can only imagine your complaining if Cutler wore purple Cutler playing with the Vike's o-line and receivers would be a joke. He played like crap last night almost throwing 2 pick 6's and you could say that he lost the game for the Bears. Yeah Marshall saved his #### and he put up good passing numbers but that was all about Marshall. Any QB would put up numbers like that if they had a young Randy Moss, a Calvin Johnson or a Brandon Marshall.
Sign a competent FA QB, who would that be

[Demi]

Guess your happy with Ponder's amazing play. Hold your breath for the playoffs...please.

Who? I don't know. Do you have info on what the Eagles or 49ers plan on doing? Or who else might be cut? If so please share and I can give you an answer. I'll guarantee you there will be better options than any of the 3 clowns on the roster.

As far as Cutler, you're really going to mention the Vikings oline as an issue? He's playing with probably the worst oline in the game right now. But oh boy would he struggle on the Vikings. Did you see him buying time last night and escaping pressure repeatedly? I'll take a potential 4000 yard passer any day of the week. Especially when you're going to get a 60% completion percentage out of him. He might blunder now and then, but he also makes some pretty damn good plays down field to make up for it.

This has been discussed over and over and over appatrently some "fans" won't let it go. There was/is nothing written or talked about that Manning had any interest in playing for the Vikings so somehow get that idea out of your mind.

Wow yeah put "fans" in quotes. Real nice. Guess wanting whats best for a team is worse than wanting what's worse as long as that's what you have.

There wasn't anything written or talked about because our genius front office didn't even discuss it with Manning, his agent, Zygi, or whatever crystal ball Spielman rubs to make his brilliant free agent signings. Why would it be discussed when the Vikings didn't even put out feelers? They couldn't KNOW if he had any interest because they had no interest.

[Purple bruise]

Guess your happy with Ponder's amazing play. Hold your breath for the playoffs...please.

Who? I don't know. Do you have info on what the Eagles or 49ers plan on doing? Or who else might be cut? If so please share and I can give you an answer. I'll guarantee you there will be better options than any of the 3 clowns on the roster.

As far as Cutler, you're really going to mention the Vikings oline as an issue? He's playing with probably the worst oline in the game right now. But oh boy would he struggle on the Vikings. Did you see him buying time last night and escaping pressure repeatedly? I'll take a potential 4000 yard passer any day of the week. Especially when you're going to get a 60% completion percentage out of him. He might blunder now and then, but he also makes some pretty damn good plays down field to make up for it.
Wow yeah put "fans" in quotes. Real nice. Guess wanting whats best for a team is worse than wanting what's worse as long as that's what you have.

There wasn't anything written or talked about because our genius front office didn't even discuss it with Manning, his agent, Zygi, or whatever crystal ball Spielman rubs to make his brilliant free agent signings. Why would it be discussed when the Vikings didn't even put out feelers? They couldn't KNOW if he had any interest because they had no interest.

No I do not know what FA QB that you have in mind bringing in here, enlighten me.
OBTW You mentioned giving up Harvin and draft picks for Fitzgerald. You are wanting to trade one of the top all around offensive players in the league and draft picks for a Wide receiver I would like to have Fitz on the Vikes but not at that cost. And yet you criticize the Vikings for not making better trades but this is one of your ideas

[Demi]

The guy that asked for a trade this last offseason? Gets put on IR after we're told he'll be back in a few weeks? And then gets completely cut off from the media? And releases some PR driven release? Who can't stay healthy? (Funny how I was yelled down on that one after posting his full page injury report history). Who wants a new contract with two years left, how do you think he's going to feel this offseason? Who gets into the head coaches face during a game?

I'll take a Bona fide top 5-10 wide receiver over an "all around talent" any day. Especially when the all around talent is injury prone, and a bit of a head case. And the top 5-10 wide receiver is one of the classiest players in the entire league.

[mondry]

LOL, now we're blaming the front office for not signing peyton manning to our 3-13 rebuilding project.

[Mothman]

LOL, now we're blaming the front office for not signing peyton manning to our 3-13 rebuilding project.

I'm sure he would have jumped on board if they'd only asked him. Instead, like a a schoolgirl who didn't get invited to the dance, he had to go and sign withe Broncos.

[VikingLord]

No I do not know what FA QB that you have in mind bringing in here, enlighten me.

You can't think of any possibilities that would be better than what the Vikings have? You would rather they remain with Ponder as the only viable option?

This is the kind of tunnel vision that creates the problem in the first place. There is only one way to solve a problem, so they force that solution to work even when it clearly isn't working. Then, when it becomes untenable to remain on the boat, they find themselves right back where they started - in desperate need for a solution and, as long as the leadership remains the same, they repeat the mistake (see Millen, Matthew or any number of perennial basement dwellers).

The fact remains that there are multiple ways to get to a solution. Flexibility and an open mind are key. In regards to Manning, Manning might very well have wanted to come play in Minnesota knowing AD is here. He might have been attracted to the prospect of playing with one of the great RB's in the league just as Favre was. If Manning had the opportunity, perhaps he might have considered it. But he didn't because the Vikings already had made up their minds that this was going to be Ponder's team. They passed any chance to put another arrow in their quiver and now they're reaping the results of that.

The absolute best indicator that a GM is going to work out is flexibility and creativity when addressing personnel issues, and not just in regards to hitting on draft choices.

[Dark]

As great as Peyton Manning is. A 37 year old QB didn't/doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team. Even if the Vikings were interested why would Manning sign with a young, rebuilding team, coming off a 3-13 season over teams like Denver and SF who made the playoffs with Tim Freakin Tebow and Alex Smith respectively?

I can blame/criticize the Vikings for many things but not going after Manning ain't one of them.

People just get so caught up in winning the super bowl NOW and not thinking long-term. I don't blame them though, we went to the super bowl 4 freaking times and never won. The way you have to put it is: would you rather win the super bowl now and suck for the next five to ten years, or wait five years to rebuild and possibly win the super bowl multiple times?

[Purple bruise]

You can't think of any possibilities that would be better than what the Vikings have? You would rather they remain with Ponder as the only viable option?

This is the kind of tunnel vision that creates the problem in the first place. There is only one way to solve a problem, so they force that solution to work even when it clearly isn't working. Then, when it becomes untenable to remain on the boat, they find themselves right back where they started - in desperate need for a solution and, as long as the leadership remains the same, they repeat the mistake (see Millen, Matthew or any number of perennial basement dwellers).

The fact remains that there are multiple ways to get to a solution. Flexibility and an open mind are key. In regards to Manning, Manning might very well have wanted to come play in Minnesota knowing AD is here. He might have been attracted to the prospect of playing with one of the great RB's in the league just as Favre was. If Manning had the opportunity, perhaps he might have considered it. But he didn't because the Vikings already had made up their minds that this was going to be Ponder's team. They passed any chance to put another arrow in their quiver and now they're reaping the results of that.

The absolute best indicator that a GM is going to work out is flexibility and creativity when addressing personnel issues, and not just in regards to hitting on draft choices.

Geez do you really think that Manning MIGHT have wanted to come and play for a 3-13 team with the really great wideouts that the Vikes have and the wonderful o-line which would have protected him so well?
Maybe getting to play with AD would have made it worth while, oh wait, seems as if AD was rehabing from a horific knee injury and there was much uncertainty as to whether or not AD would come back and regain his previous form.
Shoot, I bet Spielmen's tunnel vision really screwed them from getting Manning.
Apparently, unlike you and many others, I believe that Spielman is doing a great job all around especially since this is the first year that he is in controll. He put together a great draft and filled in many of the glaring weaknesses on the team. I did not expect him to fix everything in one year but it seems that many did. As far as Ponder goes, I think that this year will decide Ponder's future or maybe he is being patient enough to see what Ponder can do with more experience, better receivers and better line protection. News flash... a lot of really good QB's did not develop for a couple of years (you have seen the list so I won't repeat it).
Spielmen's career is always on the line just as any GM's is and the bottum line is how the team is playing and progressing overall. If Ponder fails and is not replaced then that will all be on Spielmen. You think that he might realize that just a little or is it too much tunnel vision on his part?

[PurpleKoolaid]

As great as Peyton Manning is. A 37 year old QB didn't/doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team. Even if the Vikings were interested why would Manning sign with a young, rebuilding team, coming off a 3-13 season over teams like Denver and SF who made the playoffs with Tim Freakin Tebow and Alex Smith respectively?

I can blame/criticize the Vikings for many things but not going after Manning ain't one of them.

Rebuilding? Some people are talking about Fraizer as come back coach of the year. And if we beat the Rams, and the Texans and Packers dont need to win, we might sneak in the playoffs. With Manning we WOULD be the NFC champs at least 2 years in a row. But cant have those old guys. But yeah, Manning didnt even consider coming here. Nor do i think the Vikings have it in them to make that big move. No more big move since Walker deal....

[saint33]

Rebuilding? Some people are talking about Fraizer as come back coach of the year. And if we beat the Rams, and the Texans and Packers dont need to win, we might sneak in the playoffs. With Manning we WOULD be the NFC champs at least 2 years in a row. But cant have those old guys. But yeah, Manning didnt even consider coming here. Nor do i think the Vikings have it in them to make that big move. No more big move since Walker deal....

I think he's referring to the time when manning was available. We were a team in rebuild mode. Manning wanted to go to an organization prepared to make the next step, and we had little to offer him. Bad group of wideouts, suspect defense and an uncertain online (he was signed long before the draft).

No one could have predicted the success we've had this year, and during the off season, the FO was making decisions with a realistic and proper approach, that the team was in full rebuild mode and the goal was to get younger

[VikingLord]

Geez do you really think that Manning MIGHT have wanted to come and play for a 3-13 team with the really great wideouts that the Vikes have and the wonderful o-line which would have protected him so well?
Maybe getting to play with AD would have made it worth while, oh wait, seems as if AD was rehabing from a horific knee injury and there was much uncertainty as to whether or not AD would come back and regain his previous form.
Shoot, I bet Spielmen's tunnel vision really screwed them from getting Manning.
Apparently, unlike you and many others, I believe that Spielman is doing a great job all around especially since this is the first year that he is in controll. He put together a great draft and filled in many of the glaring weaknesses on the team. I did not expect him to fix everything in one year but it seems that many did. As far as Ponder goes, I think that this year will decide Ponder's future or maybe he is being patient enough to see what Ponder can do with more experience, better receivers and better line protection. News flash... a lot of really good QB's did not develop for a couple of years (you have seen the list so I won't repeat it).
Spielmen's career is always on the line just as any GM's is and the bottum line is how the team is playing and progressing overall. If Ponder fails and is not replaced then that will all be on Spielmen. You think that he might realize that just a little or is it too much tunnel vision on his part?

I was respectful to you in my response and would appreciate the same in return. I don't know what other interactions you are having on the board, but as far as I'm concerned I have no problem with you and would like it to stay that way.

In regards to your points:

How do you know what Manning was looking for or what he might do unless you contact him and express interest? Maybe Manning wanted to continue playing inside in December, for example. Just because something is unlikely, and I admit Manning coming to the Vikings would have been unlikely, doesn't mean it's impossible. Spielman could have explored it, and in my view there was little harm in that.

As far as playing with AD goes, Manning could have found out through his own means if AD looked likely to return and be effective. Besides, it wasn't as if Manning had no questions around his recovery, either.

In regards to your tunnel vision comment, the only question there is was this alternative considered? If the answer is no, then yeah, Spielman made up his mind that they were going with Ponder and that was it. And the concern going forward if that is the case is that Spielman will continue to make decisions like that.

I didn't expect Spielman to fix everything in one draft, and he did do a good job with that so far, but it's just one draft where he had the #3 pick in the first round and the 3rd pick of the 2nd to work with. One would hope Spielman succeeds in that situation. On the other hand, we have the $5 million contract handed to John Carlson and the failure to do anything at the WR position in FA, in addition to other questionable moves made when Spielman and Frazier had equal say (trading a 6th rounder for McNabb, signing Ayodele, once again failing to address the WR position) so I'd say the jury is still out as to how effective Spielman will ultimately be.

And as for Ponder developing, how long do you think he should get? Another year? Another two? Until the Vikings can stand back and say they've got the stud WR and offensive line? The way I see it, it doesn't matter that they don't have those things because they have AD and AD forces teams to play run every time he's on the field. Ponder is getting defensive looks that are as favorable to an NFL QB as he'll ever see bar none. Even with "better" WR's and a better offensive line, without a guy producing like AD is producing defenses will shift to emphasize the pass.

I'd say the odds of the Vikings finding this mysterious #1 stud WR and completely addressing their offensive line deficiencies before AD is in decline are about the same as Manning deciding to come to Minny. If that is true, how much longer should Ponder get? Where would you draw that line?