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Neither do I, especially in a thread called "The WR thread."Mothman wrote:I see no reason why the receivers can't be judged on their performance just like Ponder is judged on his performance.
You don't? How can you judge their performance with a quarterback who is regularly unwilling, or incapable, of even getting them the ball? They can run perfect routes, get separation, get deep, beat their guy, make incredible moves, and NONE of it matters when their quarterback doesn't quit staring at Kyle Rudolph, or running at even the slightest hint of pressure....unless someone is breaking down every offensive snap to see how the receivers are doing, I see at least one big reason you can't judge them on their performance...we can see the replays when receivers get open, we can see Ponder running when there's no pressure, staring down receivers, throwing horribly inaccurate passes. Unless they start replaying every play to show Jenkins failing to get open, or someone is going to break down every offensive snap and grade them out, there are a few reasons you can't judge them like we do Ponder...I see no reason
I already addressed that basic question above but...Demi wrote: You don't? How can you judge their performance with a quarterback who is regularly unwilling, or incapable, of even getting them the ball?
Agreed but are they doing those things with any consistency or regularity? No, they're not. How many incredible moves have you seen from Vikings wide receivers not named Harvin this season?They can run perfect routes, get separation, get deep, beat their guy, make incredible moves, and NONE of it matters when their quarterback doesn't quit staring at Kyle Rudolph, or running at even the slightest hint of pressure....
I've been doing that for most of the games this season, which is why I'm pretty insistent about this. I'm not just watching the broadcasts, I'm watching the coaches film on NFL.com and paying attention to who gets open, who doesn't, etc.unless someone is breaking down every offensive snap to see how the receivers are doing...
We've also seen the dropped passes, the plays where Ponder runs because nobody is open, etc. or are those all illusory?I see at least one big reason you can't judge them on their performance...we can see the replays when receivers get open, we can see Ponder running when there's no pressure, staring down receivers, throwing horribly inaccurate passes.
It reminds me of that too in the sense that people seem to want to make it about Ponder... or about Frazier or Spielman or anything but what it's supposed to be about, the receivers.PurpleKoolaid wrote:This is so funny. Realy, it is. Our receivers are not the main reason we are in the shape we are in now. Ponder is. And Fraizer. And Spielman. And the Wilf's. Put the blame on them, then move onto the D, where some players are getting payed big bucks, and aernt worth it.
Our Oline is worse then our WRs. I hope everyone knows that. They are good at run blocking. But look who they are blocking for. How many times have you seen the Oline get blown up, and mr happy feet already paniced and the play is over. How can a WR develope a play in under a second? And when they do, Ponder doesnt see them. Just cause Aikman told ya they are never open doesnt make it so. I would say PH is as good of a WR as anyone in the NFL. Why do we need a deep threat with Ponder? Just have Wringt or Devin run as fast as they can down the sideline and have ponder close his eyes and let it fly.
With a good QB (not even great, just good) we wouldnt even have this thread. We have 1 star WR, and then a buncha average ones, that if a QB threw them the ball, they may be able to catch it. Like Kyle does. That being said ofc we need a WR. But I dont trust Spielman in the FA market and he waited till teh 4th round last time.
This thread reminds me so much of the ones we used to have defending Ponder.
And how much of it has to do with the team actually sending them down field where Ponder can't accurately throw the ball? As opposed to 1 yard screens and checking down to Rudolph. Earlier this year his average pass through the air was like two and a half yards once you figure in yards after the catch. How often are they using those outside guys on those type of routes? They're not running bubble screens to Jenkins or maybe he'd have more receptions too.I realize the more talented players have been targeted more often but even though Ponder's shortcomings as a passer are still on display when throwing to these players, they've all managed to get open, make catches and be productive. Maybe the poor production we've seen from Simpson, Jenkins and Aromashodu has a little more to do with talent than some fans are willing to acknowledge.
I'm sure the number of targets, type of routes they're asked to run, etc. are a factor in their production. My point was that their ability is as well. I think when you compare Wright's production in 3 games to Simpson's production in 8, that becomes evident.Demi wrote:And how much of it has to do with the team actually sending them down field where Ponder can't accurately throw the ball?
So I woke up and smelled it on Sunday and, after another Sub-100 yard performance by Ponder I'm not sure it smells any different.Mothman wrote: Wake up and smell the proverbial coffee, Edward. The QB isn't the only offensive player on the Vikings that's stunk it up for a good portion of the 2012 season.
... and only one of those things has anything to do with the subject of this thread.VikingLord wrote:So I woke up and smelled it on Sunday and, after another Sub-100 yard performance by Ponder I'm not sure it smells any different.
I will give Ponder credit for what I saw him do well. He generally seemed to hang in the pocket better and he threw a nice ball to Aroma that should probably have either been caught or drawn a flag, but he also threw another one of his patented terrible interceptions, a jump pass, and attempted a throw-away while being sacked that could easily have been flagged for grounding or even called a fumble the way it came out.
It was a mixed performance by Ponder but on the pass to Aromashodu, he did exactly what everybody wants him to do under pressure, stepped up, set his feet, threw a very nice pass, gave his receiver an opportunity and... the receiver didn't make the play. He didn't even get his hands on the ball. 1 throw makes your point? Guess how many of those Marshall missed in Denver, when the defender didnt have his arm between him and the ball. There should have been PI called. And yeah it should have been caught. Want me to list the overthrown balls to wide open receivers or post the great catchs Kyle has made (when Ponder throws his way, which isnt often enough)?mansquatch wrote:Case in point:
The Aroma throw was all on the WR, ball was where it needed to be.
The INT to Wright was all on the QB. Ponder missed an open WR because of bad mechanics that resulted in a INT instead of a TD.
Consistency is Ponder's problem. I do not know how or if he will fix it.
There must be a dozen threads about Ponder. Can we please make this one about the wide receivers? I know there's a relationship between QB and WR so it's not like Ponder's name shouldn't be part of the discussion. I'm just asking if we can focus on WRs in this one thread. For example, if we keep talking about the pass to Aromashodu or the pass to Wright, can we focus on what the receivers did on those plays?PurpleKoolaid wrote: 1 throw makes your point? Guess how many of those Marshall missed in Denver, when the defender didnt have his arm between him and the ball. There should have been PI called. And yeah it should have been caught. Want me to list the overthrown balls to wide open receivers or post the great catchs Kyle has made (when Ponder throws his way, which isnt often enough)?
