How come Webb didn't get that many starts then? What is is about Ponder, apart from his draft position, that explains why he's still being given so many opportunities? Webb is bigger. He's the better athlete of the two. He has a stronger arm. The Vikings drafted him to play WR but kept him at QB. They must have evaluated something in Webb that led them to do that. But Webb isn't 22 starts into his evaluation, while the arguably less talented Ponder is. If you can explain that in terms other than the amount invested in the draft, I'd love to hear it.Mothman wrote: I can't speak for anybody else but I rarely even think about Ponder's draft position unless someone brings it up here. Once he was drafted, that mattered very little to me. It was a sunken cost, reach or not. From the Vikings point of view, I don't think it's draft investment that keeps Ponder in the lineup so much as the investment of time and energy, which is based on their evaluation of him and their belief that he could do the job. Regardless of what fans think of Joe Webb, the Vikings have evaluated what they have in Webb and they clearly didn't (in the spring of 2011) and don't believe he has a future as their starting QB. If they did, Ponder may not have been drafted in the first place.
That's great, but Spielman and Frazier can't cut him without suffering a debilitating impact on their reputations and their plan to improve the Vikings. They have placed all their eggs in the Ponder basket, and there is no way they can move past that without getting those eggs all over their faces if this doesn't work out.Mothman wrote: Anyway, after investing time and effort into developing Ponder, it seems they want to fully evaluate him before deciding to pull the plug. That's my take anyway. He's in there because they're continuing to evaluate him and hopefully, because they still think he gives them the best chance to win. Maybe they're holding onto some slim hope that he can be their future QB and maybe not.
One thing to remember: the investment in a first round QB isn't what it used to be and Ponder's contract guaranteed him $10 million. If the Vikes feel they need to move on, they can cut him without suffering a debilitating impact on the salary cap.
Well, they aren't world-beaters, but neither are they as bad as they're being made out to be. To receive, the ball has to be put into the air. A receiver can fight for a ball and maybe come down with it, but no receiver can catch a ball thrown into the ground, floated way over his head, thrown out of bounds, thrown late, or not thrown at all. I'd argue that the receivers aren't even being given a fair shake most of the time because Ponder won't release the ball, and when he does it requires circus-like efforts to catch if it's even catchable. The WR's are taking a beating because the QB can't read them coming out of breaks and get the ball there accurately and on time. He locks on to one guy and if that guy isn't WIDE open he won't throw it. It's crazy. It's inexcusable at this level. I've never actually witnessed QB play this bad in the pros honestly.Mothman wrote: "Supposedly"? You tend to post that as if you think it's nothing but empty rhetoric. Other than Harvin, do you think this is a good group of receivers by NFL standards? Look at it objectively, if the Vikings were playing a team with Simpson, Jenkins, Wright, Aromashodu, and Burton at WR, would you be particularly concerned about that group of receivers? Do you think opposing defensive coordinators are very concerned? They're an easy group to contain and not just because of the quarterback.
Put Ponder on a team with "much better" WR's and he'd manage to make them look bad too.
If Spielman isn't coming up with a Plan B at this point he should be fired.Mothman wrote: That said, I'm not sure we should interpret the Vikings continued support of Ponder as an indication they believe he's their franchise QB. They may just be playing him at this point because they're determined to evaluate him based on an entire season's performance and to decide if he should be kept and demoted or simply cut. We don't know. They're not blind to the fact that he's playing poorly and for all we know Spielman may be putting together a list of QBs to target in the offseason.
As for Ponder's continued play, I say they're as good going with Webb or MBT as Ponder at this point. Assuming they lose to the Bears and Ponder continues to play the same, there is no reason to continue playing him other than for Spielman and Frazier's pride.
OK, then, Frazier should show that with actions. Frazier's job is to put the team first. Not Ponder - the team. By continuing to play a guy who clearly isn't capable of getting it done he's not putting the team first. While it appears everyone is OK with that right now, that can't last much longer. Certainly not with those WR's who are getting excoriated in the press as sub-pros, or the offensive linemen who were taking a lot of heat up until recently, or the defense that is getting raked for giving up long drives late in games when they are gassed because the offense can't stay on the field. Everyone wants to put this guy on their shoulders and carry him. It's impressive that so many people seem to like him and believe in him, yet in looking at it, I can't see why other than that's what they want to do.Mothman wrote: I've seen nothing that suggests the Vikings think the problem is coaching/receivers/offensive line and not Ponder. If you listen to Frazier's comments, he's obviously aware that Ponder is playing poorly.
The chicken and the egg are clear in this situation. Ponder's not starting because they spent a first round pick on him. They spent a first round pick on him because they thought he could be the starter. They had Webb and either didn't think he was the right guy to get that opportunity or didn't feel he was anywhere close to ready for it.