Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

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Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Poll ended at Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:14 am

Christian Ponder
18
24%
Joe Webb
9
12%
Alex Smith
24
32%
Michael Vick
6
8%
Mark Sanchez
1
1%
Matt Flynn
3
4%
1st round rookie
4
5%
Veteran Starter (Moore, Skelton, Cassel, Kolb, or Henne)
2
3%
Younger guy (Gabbert, McCoy, Clausen, Mallett)
1
1%
Other (name the guy)
7
9%
 
Total votes: 75

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Texas Vike
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Texas Vike »

GBFavreFan wrote: I don't think what happened in Seattle is any sort of strategy or formula that any team should employ, it was just sort of something that happened. There isn't a Russell Wilson in the draft every year, he is a special player and was at Wisconsin too, but the NFL's ridiculous and old fashioned prejudice against QB's under 6 feet tall is what kept him from being a first rounder. That and having a very supportive and enthusiastic HC who is used to working with college age QB's. Jackson was there as a reliable stopgap because of Bevil and there's no evidence to show that Wilson performed better in the offseason BECAUSE of Matt Flynn's presence. I'm sure if they could do it over again they'd just pass on Flynn and save the $11 million or whatever they spent. Kudos go to Pete Carroll for giving Wilson the nod when 31 other teams likely would've started Flynn because of the money, the height issue, and Wilson's draft position.
So you would rather the Vikings stick with their approach? I.e. have one realistic option at QB and hope to god he pans out? And then when he doesn't have your season flushed down the drain because you don't have any real and viable options at #2 and #3?

The position is important enough to warrant having at least two VERY SOLID options if not three. If that means paying your backup the type of money that Flynn got, then so be it. If Wilson gets hurt, the Seahawks have a nice plan B so that they don't have to kiss their season goodbye.

I also disagree with your take on Wilson and the NFL draft. Talent can be found outside of the first two rounds and Pete Carrol is not the only coach to trust in his rookie.

My central point is that we need to create competition and have realistic back up options. Ponder has shown that he can't be trusted to be the only real option on our squad.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by dead_poet »

Texas Vike wrote:My central point is that we need to create competition and have realistic back up options. Ponder has shown that he can't be trusted to be the only real option on our squad.
Fair or not, first round rookies typically don't have to fight real hard to get their starting opportunity, barring a worthy veteran on the roster. That may change a bit now with the rookie wage scale as, before that, you were paying them WAY too much to ride the pine right out of the gate.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Mothman »

VikingLord wrote:- Target Aaron Murray (QB - Georgia) with their 4th rounder if he lasts that long. The kid is a decent prospect. He's on the shorter side, but his production doesn't lie. Compares favorably to a guy like Brees. Can process the game and makes good decisions. Is consistent. Can become a reliable starter and would be worth a 4th IMHO.
I don't think Murray will last that long but I have him on my radar too. I doubt it would take a first round pick to get him but he could be a good NFL QB and I'm thinking he'll be available in R2 or R3.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by losperros »

VikingLord wrote:Here's what I'd like to see the Vikings do at QB this offseason:

- Find a vet who can man the wheel if necessary and maybe even win the job outright. With AD so effective all the Vikes need out of their QB is competence. He doesn't have to be a world-beater. I don't think Vick is the answer, but he should be an option and he, along with a few others, would be good enough when paired with AD to put the Vikes into contention for the North.
- Target Aaron Murray (QB - Georgia) with their 4th rounder if he lasts that long. The kid is a decent prospect. He's on the shorter side, but his production doesn't lie. Compares favorably to a guy like Brees. Can process the game and makes good decisions. Is consistent. Can become a reliable starter and would be worth a 4th IMHO.
- Ratchet up the pressure on Ponder this offseason. They're not going to cut him, but they have to make it clear nobody is guaranteed anything and they want to find an answer, then see how hard he's willing to work for it. Make sure the job is an open competition coming into camp next year, and put viable competition on the roster.

All of this sounds fine to me, Edward. Has Aaron Murray announced his draft eligibility? He might choose to play out his senior year next season and possibly get picked higher in the following draft.

There are other good QBs that I think the Vikings can get in the draft within the first 2 rounds. Some decent WRs, too. They have to upgrade the passing game big time.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote:All of this sounds fine to me, Edward. Has Aaron Murray announced his draft eligibility?
No,not yet so who knows? Maybe he won't even be in the draft next spring.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by UKno1VIKING »

i voted for Veteran, mainly for Kolb but i would mention Hasselbeck in that bracket. Both can carry big workloads as we've seen in previous years. But where they've got unstuck is when they've been asked to throw high amounts and both throw multiple pick games. However if the Vikings used one of these guys like they should, i.e a supporting role for AD, then i'm sure they would do a good job.
Meanwhile we secure Mariota when he is eligible to draft in a few years. The guy's got some skills.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Infinity »

UKno1VIKING wrote:i voted for Veteran, mainly for Kolb but i would mention Hasselbeck in that bracket. Both can carry big workloads as we've seen in previous years. But where they've got unstuck is when they've been asked to throw high amounts and both throw multiple pick games. However if the Vikings used one of these guys like they should, i.e a supporting role for AD, then i'm sure they would do a good job.
Meanwhile we secure Mariota when he is eligible to draft in a few years. The guy's got some skills.
We've already failed the whole veteran qb thing with McNabb. Do you think these guys are gonna make us any better than he did? Kolb was always a backup and when he did get the starting job he outright sucked. Hasselbeck was great but he is way passed his prime.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by mondry »

I like Ryan Fitzpatrick and if the bills decide they want to move on he might be available. He's done decent considering his team has pretty much always been garbage. He's not the end all solution to our problems but at 30 he could be a solid veteran till A. Ponder figures it out or B. the next pick does. I think he would fit well with our offense and not have to do too much.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by dead_poet »

mondry wrote:I like Ryan Fitzpatrick and if the bills decide they want to move on he might be available. He's done decent considering his team has pretty much always been garbage. He's not the end all solution to our problems but at 30 he could be a solid veteran till A. Ponder figures it out or B. the next pick does. I think he would fit well with our offense and not have to do too much.
How far things have sunk when we start pining for Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's the epitome of weak-armed, inaccurate passer. He only topped 60% completion once in his career (last season, 61% now). His 23 interceptions led the NFL in 2011. Ew. No. Pass.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by losperros »

Mothman wrote: No,not yet so who knows? Maybe he won't even be in the draft next spring.
I guess what I was thinking is that Murray could stick around in Georgia to play his senior season. If he plays well (and that's likely), it could mean he'll get drafted higher, maybe even in R1. That would instantly be worth a lot more money for him as he becomes a pro.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Texas Vike »

losperros wrote: I guess what I was thinking is that Murray could stick around in Georgia to play his senior season. If he plays well (and that's likely), it could mean he'll get drafted higher, maybe even in R1. That would instantly be worth a lot more money for him as he becomes a pro.
What's the difference in pay between the current rookie wage scale and the days previous to it? I'm thinking, concretely, of QBs taken in the first round. I am wondering if the new scale incentivizes players, especially QBs, to go pro early. Better said, staying for your senior year to increase your stock seems to have been de-incentivized.

Of course, there are often development concerns that weigh in the decision of whether to turn pro.

Seems to me that rookie QBs are proving themselves more NFL ready as time passes. Lots of success stories lately; too bad we're not one of them (yet? Do I dare to hope that Ponder figures it out?).
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Mothman »

Texas Vike wrote:What's the difference in pay between the current rookie wage scale and the days previous to it?
A few examples:

First pick in the draft Andrew Luck received a $22.1 million deal over 4 years with a $14.5 million signing bonus.
RGIII (second pick in the 2012 draft) received $21.1 million over 4 years with a signing bonus of $13.8 million.

In contract, two years earlier #1 pick Sam Bradford received a 6 year, $78 million contract with $50 million in guaranteed money.

A year before that Matthew Stafford, the No. 1 pick in 2009, recieved $41.7 million in guaranteed money on a six-year, $72 million deal.
I'm thinking, concretely, of QBs taken in the first round. I am wondering if the new scale incentivizes players, especially QBs, to go pro early. Better said, staying for your senior year to increase your stock seems to have been de-incentivized.
Yes and no. A high first round QB clearly doesn't get the kind of mega-contract high first round QBs were receiving just a few years ago but comparatively speaking, a QB selected high in R1 is still going to get a lot more money than a QB selected later. Brandon Weeden was the 22nd pick in the 2012 draft and his contract was worth $8.1 million (I'm not sure how much was guaranteed). Andy Dalton was a high second round pick in 2011 and his 4 year contract is worth $5.214 million so as you can see, there's still a substantial financial difference between being a high first round pick or a low first/high second round pick.

I hope that was helpful. :)
Of course, there are often development concerns that weigh in the decision of whether to turn pro.

Seems to me that rookie QBs are proving themselves more NFL ready as time passes. Lots of success stories lately; too bad we're not one of them (yet? Do I dare to hope that Ponder figures it out?).
It's a shame but I suppose the flip side is that if the Vikes have to bail on ponder and go with another rookie QB, there's a decent chance it will work out better the second time. :)
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Texas Vike »

Mothman wrote: A few examples:

First pick in the draft Andrew Luck received a $22.1 million deal over 4 years with a $14.5 million signing bonus.
RGIII (second pick in the 2012 draft) received $21.1 million over 4 years with a signing bonus of $13.8 million.

In contract, two years earlier #1 pick Sam Bradford received a 6 year, $78 million contract with $50 million in guaranteed money.

A year before that Matthew Stafford, the No. 1 pick in 2009, recieved $41.7 million in guaranteed money on a six-year, $72 million deal.
Yes and no. A high first round QB clearly doesn't get the kind of mega-contract high first round QBs were receiving just a few years ago but comparatively speaking, a QB selected high in R1 is still going to get a lot more money than a QB selected later. Brandon Weeden was the 22nd pick in the 2012 draft and his contract was worth $8.1 million (I'm not sure how much was guaranteed). Andy Dalton was a high second round pick in 2011 and his 4 year contract is worth $5.214 million so as you can see, there's still a substantial financial difference between being a high first round pick or a low first/high second round pick.

I hope that was helpful. :)
It's a shame but I suppose the flip side is that if the Vikes have to bail on ponder and go with another rookie QB, there's a decent chance it will work out better the second time. :)
Great post. Thanks for explaining the situation w/ rookie wage scale.

I think it behooves the Vikings (and any NFL team) to draft QBs OFTEN. Every year until you have a bonafide Elite QB and even then, thinking of the future. The position is way too important to take the coddling approach that the Vikes have used. Obviously there is also a danger of erring on the other side-- that is, never giving a potential talent the time and room to develop. But right now we are erring so far to the opposite pole that it's not a threat!
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

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Texas Vike wrote:Great post. Thanks for explaining the situation w/ rookie wage scale.
You're welcome. In cap terms, it makes a pretty dramatic difference, doesn't it?
I think it behooves the Vikings (and any NFL team) to draft QBs OFTEN. Every year until you have a bonafide Elite QB and even then, thinking of the future. The position is way too important to take the coddling approach that the Vikes have used. Obviously there is also a danger of erring on the other side-- that is, never giving a potential talent the time and room to develop. But right now we are erring so far to the opposite pole that it's not a threat!
I wholeheartedly agree that it behooves a team to draft QBs often, although I'm not sure I agree that the Vikes are coddling Ponder. I think they're being patient with him and they've failed to provide themselves with good enough alternatives to feel good about pulling him. That gets right back to the idea of drafting QBs often. They should be looking at QB talent in the draft and free agency (including rookie free agency) every year and by that, I mean they should be bringing that talent to camp in the summer and constantly creating competition in an effort to find a starter and upgrade depth at the position.
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Re: Who should our starting QB be for 2013?

Post by Odlid »

I think Flacco is a Free Agent in '13. I'd take him over Ponder or any of the crop of QB's available in the next draft.
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