Relax, take a step back, and realize

[shannontw]

I know everyone on this board is upset at the game on yesterday. We all have to remind ourselves that this is a rebuilding Vikings team. I dont believe many of us didnt think we would be 6-6 at this point. We played a competitive game on yesterday, and the franchise is moving in the right direction. Everyone needs to relax and take the season for what it is. For the lack of offensive weapons we have. I think we are in a pretty decent spot. Another good draft, we will be in the mix of things for next year.

[Mothman]

To be quite honest, this "rebuilding" team, with a QB like lets say, not gonna go overboard here, Josh Freeman or even a derelic like Chad Henne is probably in first place right now

Which is why I think a lot (not all) of the criticism directed at Frazier is off base. Along with the rest of the football-watching world, I felt he should have pulled Ponder from yesterday's game but I think he has the team playing at a higher level than almost anyone expected. Add a better QB, some NFL-caliber receivers on the outside and another playmaker or two on defense and Frazier might really take this team places.

[purplehaze]

Sorry but I am tired of hearing the word re-building as an excuse for everything. The word we should be using right now is re-positioning.

[Mothman]

Sorry but I am tired of hearing the word re-building as an excuse for everything. The word we should be using right now is re-positioning.

Does it really matter? In the end, the story is the same: this isn't a Super Bowl caliber team and they're trying to build or position themselves to become a championship team. Referring to them as a rebuilding team isn't excuse-making, it's just a realistic description of their current state. The descriptive words are easy enough to change but the reality is the same: the Vikes don't have a championship-caliber roster.

[purplehaze]

Does it really matter? In the end, the story is the same: this isn't a Super Bowl caliber team and they're trying to build or position themselves to become a championship team. Referring to them as a rebuilding team isn't excuse-making, it's just a realistic description of their current state. The descriptive words are easy enough to change but the reality is the same: the Vikes don't have a championship-caliber roster.

Actually yes I think it does matter. Not saying superbowl but we had a legit shot at the playoffs. Check down should have been benched in mid October. Now the season is officially over.

[dead_poet]

Here's my stance on Ponder at the moment: he doesn't appear to have the talent to make others around him better. Some top-flight QBs have that ability. He's shown thus far he's certainly not one of them. But that doesn't mean he can't be successful. If (stressing "If") he's the starter next season the front office has GOT to give him some help on the outside, and they know this. It's possible that he can excel with talented receivers raising HIS level of play (see: Dalton, Andy). And, honestly, it's not that surprising. He was the fourth QB selected and it's unclear if he would've been a first-round pick had the Vikings not taken him. I'd be curious to see how many QBs outside the top three in any given draft panned out. I'm sure there are some, but I don't think anybody was expecting Ponder to compete with the likes of Cam Newton, RGIII or Andrew Luck. He's simply not that talented and we shouldn't expect that level of play. From what we've seen so far, his ceiling may be the likes of Matt Schaub, which isn't horrible. Of course, if he keeps up this pace he'd be lucky to rise to Tarvaris Jackson.

It's fair to wonder at this point if he's broken beyond repair (this season in particular). His second guessing and hesitation is only compounding his (many) problems. I see a smart guy, high football IQ that knows everything in the classroom but simply cannot translate that into consistent on-field production. And it's beyond maddening at this point. If he doesn't step up – and I mean SOON – he's going to lose the locker room, if he hasn't started doing that already. When that happens, bad turns to worse. It's fair to wonder if Percy was playing through...this...what his temperament would be. Probably even more frustrated than many here.

I still think the front office gives Ponder one more season and see how he can do with a first-round receiver (Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter) and possibly a free agent acquisition (Mike Wallace?). Though the latter is less likely due to the $$ needed to re-sign Harvin. I don't know if they could pull off both. Ponder needs all the help he can get, and it'll be interesting if even that's enough to transform him even into an average NFL starter.

[Hunter Morrow]

Draft a receiver first round and try to use our extra picks to get another teams 1/2 guy. Even somebody on the level of a guy we were talking about last month, Dwayne Bowe, would be huge.

[danewone]

rg3 + ap + harvin = motherfather superbowl champions ftmfw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mothman]

Actually yes I think it does matter. Not saying superbowl but we had a legit shot at the playoffs. Check down should have been benched in mid October. Now the season is officially over.

I apologize if I'm being dim but I'm not seeing the distinction you're making between the language used to describe the team (rebuild vs. re-position) and benching Ponder. Are you saying they should have been re-positioning themselves for a playoff appearance by making the change at QB?

[losperros]

Here's my stance on Ponder at the moment: he doesn't appear to have the talent to make others around him better. Some top-flight QBs have that ability. He's shown thus far he's certainly not one of them. But that doesn't mean he can't be successful. If (stressing "If") he's the starter next season the front office has GOT to give him some help on the outside, and they know this. It's possible that he can excel with talented receivers raising HIS level of play (see: Dalton, Andy). And, honestly, it's not that surprising. He was the fourth QB selected and it's unclear if he would've been a first-round pick had the Vikings not taken him. I'd be curious to see how many QBs outside the top three in any given draft panned out. I'm sure there are some, but I don't think anybody was expecting Ponder to compete with the likes of Cam Newton, RGIII or Andrew Luck. He's simply not that talented and we shouldn't expect that level of play. From what we've seen so far, his ceiling may be the likes of Matt Schaub, which isn't horrible. Of course, if he keeps up this pace he'd be lucky to rise to Tarvaris Jackson.

It's fair to wonder at this point if he's broken beyond repair (this season in particular). His second guessing and hesitation is only compounding his (many) problems. I see a smart guy, high football IQ that knows everything in the classroom but simply cannot translate that into consistent on-field production. And it's beyond maddening at this point. If he doesn't step up – and I mean SOON – he's going to lose the locker room, if he hasn't started doing that already. When that happens, bad turns to worse. It's fair to wonder if Percy was playing through...this...what his temperament would be. Probably even more frustrated than many here.

I still think the front office gives Ponder one more season and see how he can do with a first-round receiver (Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter) and possibly a free agent acquisition (Mike Wallace?). Though the latter is less likely due to the $$ needed to re-sign Harvin. I don't know if they could pull off both. Ponder needs all the help he can get, and it'll be interesting if even that's enough to transform him even into an average NFL starter.

Adding to the confusion is that some of the things Ponder was known for doing well in college (he was the MVP of the Senior Bowl, for crying out loud) are what he's now doing horribly as a professional. For example, Ponder used to read the field and extend plays well, plus throw the ball downfield accurately when needed. Most importantly, he was a confident leader on the field and in the locker room. Right now he appears to be the least confident player on the offense, though some of the WRs really should feel the same way (i.e. Burton, Jenkins, Simpson).

I honestly believe the best move for both Ponder and the team is for him to sit right now. He needs a break and the team needs to finds some offensive rhythm to go along with Adrian Peterson's intense efforts. I wish the Vikings had better QB depth. Anyway, some have been saying (and maybe rightly so) that Webb should get a chance. Let him get that opportunity and let Ponder clear his head. No guarantees that it will work but I think it's worth a shot.

[dead_poet]

I honestly believe the best move for both Ponder and the team is for him to sit right now. He needs a break and the team needs to finds some offensive rhythm to go along with Adrian Peterson's intense efforts. I wish the Vikings had better QB depth. Anyway, some have been saying (and maybe rightly so) that Webb should get a chance. Let him get that opportunity and let Ponder clear his head. No guarantees that it will work but I think it's worth a shot.

I'm inclined to live or die by Ponder this season (probably die). I'm beyond sick of the QB carousel and prefer we thoroughly evaluate Ponder. I don't think this team is good enough to go deep in the playoffs (or get there at all) with either QB. Why compound the problem if you (the coaching staff, front office) doesn't think Joe Webb is the long-term starter and still think there's the chance Ponder might be? This season has always been about seeing Ponder's progress. You can't see that with him sitting on the sidelines. I'd hate to go back and forth between Webb and Ponder and then come the offseason not having a clue what to do (is Ponder the future? Webb? Do we draft someone else? Free agent?). I'd rather Ponder stink it up for the remaining games and make a move for the best QB available than not have a full evaluation and play the same games we've seen over the last decade. I guess I prefer looking at this long-term rather than short-sighted with the possibility of winning a couple of games with Webb here and there.

[Mothman]

Here's my stance on Ponder at the moment: he doesn't appear to have the talent to make others around him better. Some top-flight QBs have that ability. He's shown thus far he's certainly not one of them. But that doesn't mean he can't be successful. If (stressing "If") he's the starter next season the front office has GOT to give him some help on the outside, and they know this. It's possible that he can excel with talented receivers raising HIS level of play (see: Dalton, Andy). And, honestly, it's not that surprising. He was the fourth QB selected and it's unclear if he would've been a first-round pick had the Vikings not taken him. I'd be curious to see how many QBs outside the top three in any given draft panned out.

Plenty. Heck, there have been QBs drafted in the top 3 spots in the draft that didn't pan out! Russell, Young, Carr, Harrington... and arguably (but to a lesser extent) Alex Smith. That's just in the past decade. Then there's Couch, Leaf, Akili Smith, Shuler... all of those players were top 3 picks. Once you start expanding the list to the top 3 players at the position in drafts, it probably gets pretty long.

It's fair to wonder at this point if he's broken beyond repair (this season in particular). His second guessing and hesitation is only compounding his (many) problems. I see a smart guy, high football IQ that knows everything in the classroom but simply cannot translate that into consistent on-field production. And it's beyond maddening at this point. If he doesn't step up – and I mean SOON – he's going to lose the locker room, if he hasn't started doing that already. When that happens, bad turns to worse. It's fair to wonder if Percy was playing through...this...what his temperament would be. Probably even more frustrated than many here.

I still think the front office gives Ponder one more season and see how he can do with a first-round receiver (Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter) and possibly a free agent acquisition (Mike Wallace?). Though the latter is less likely due to the $$ needed to re-sign Harvin. I don't know if they could pull off both. Ponder needs all the help he can get, and it'll be interesting if even that's enough to transform him even into an average NFL starter.

... and it will be interesting to see if he gets the chance. I can't help wondering if one of the reasons they are so intent on playing him through this season is because they're willing to make a decision about him after this season. He's beginning to look as if he's broken beyond repair and if the Vikes feel that way after giving him a full 16 game season, maybe they'll move on. I have to believe there will at least be some intense, in-depth discussion about it.

Good post!

[Mothman]

I'm inclined to live or die by Ponder this season (probably die). I'm beyond sick of the QB carousel and prefer we thoroughly evaluate Ponder. I don't think this team is good enough to go deep in the playoffs (or get there at all) with either QB. Why compound the problem if you (the coaching staff, front office) doesn't think Joe Webb is the long-term starter and still think there's the chance Ponder might be? This season has always been about seeing Ponder's progress. You can't see that with him sitting on the sidelines. I'd hate to go back and forth between Webb and Ponder and then come the offseason not having a clue what to do (is Ponder the future? Webb? Do we draft someone else? Free agent?). I'd rather Ponder stink it up for the remaining games and make a move for the best QB available than not have a full evaluation and play the same games we've seen over the last decade. I guess I prefer looking at this long-term rather than short-sighted with the possibility of winning a couple of games with Webb here and there.

I do too but I think Craig makes a good point that sitting Ponder for a week might actually help him. It would open a can of worms if Webb played well but Ponder sure looks like a guy who needs a break to get his head straight.

[mansquatch]

My view on Ponder is that he is still making rookie mistakes as far ast he picks go. My patience on that is dwindling, be he is still in the 20-25 start range, so whatever.

The bigger problem is that he is no longer making any positive plays. That has dissappeared and I do not understand why or where it went?

[dead_poet]

I do too but I think Craig makes a good point that sitting Ponder for a week might actually help him. It would open a can of worms if Webb played well but Ponder sure looks like a guy who needs a break to get his head straight.

I can see the idea behind it, but I just don't know how much good (if any) that will do. I see it like a golfer (which I am) in a funk. You have two ways of dealing with it: 1) You hang the clubs up for a week (or month) and see if that works...somehow. 2) You go to the driving range and work the problem. I'm always in camp #2 because I think practice is more valuable and mechanics are fixable. After beating a few hundred balls for a couple of days, videoing/evaluating my swing, trying new things, etc. I generally come out the other side better than when I went in. Taking time off just makes me rusty. I'm a guy that relies on muscle memory and that seems to deteriorate the more days I go in between practice sessions. Of course, perhaps the problems aren't that similar as it seems Ponder's issues are in his head more than his mechanics (they're there too, likely as a result of what's going on upstairs). I don't know. Maybe he's a guy that would benefit from a concussion to possibly hit his "reset" button.