Relax, take a step back, and realize

[purplehaze]

I apologize if I'm being dim but I'm not seeing the distinction you're making between the language used to describe the team (rebuild vs. re-position) and benching Ponder. Are you saying they should have been re-positioning themselves for a playoff appearance by making the change at QB?

Sorry, my meaning of re-positioning was referring to the QB position. Re-positioning meaning benching check down for Webb.

[Mothman]

Sorry, my meaning of re-positioning was referring to the QB position. Re-positioning meaning benching check down for Webb.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification!

[losperros]

I can see the idea behind it, but I just don't know how much good (if any) that will do. I see it like a golfer (which I am) in a funk. You have two ways of dealing with it: 1) You hang the clubs up for a week (or month) and see if that works...somehow. 2) You go to the driving range and work the problem. I'm always in camp #2 because I think practice is more valuable and mechanics are fixable. After beating a few hundred balls for a couple of days, videoing/evaluating my swing, trying new things, etc. I generally come out the other side better than when I went in. Taking time off just makes me rusty. I'm a guy that relies on muscle memory and that seems to deteriorate the more days I go in between practice sessions. Of course, perhaps the problems aren't that similar as it seems Ponder's issues are in his head more than his mechanics (they're there too, likely as a result of what's going on upstairs). I don't know. Maybe he's a guy that would benefit from a concussion to possibly hit his "reset" button.

Your first point about not knowing how much good it will do basically is the key point. We simply don't know. Neither do the Vikings. We're just picking different ways of trying to find out.

Yes, you could be right that sitting Ponder would be a bad thing for the team and him. Then again, Jim and I might be right in thinking Ponder needs a break. He needs to watch the field from the sidelines for a bit, maybe the rest of the season if Webb lights it up. And if Webb surprisingly turns out to be the better choice at QB for the long term, then the Vikings need to know that as much as they need to know about Ponder. So I don't think this is long versus short term. I'm for the long term and I believe that he should sit for his and the team's benefit.

What we're getting from Ponder now is mostly an endless loop of identical errors. Rather than run him into the ground, give the guy a breather. As my Dad used to say, "You can't dig yourself out of a rut." Ponder is digging himself into a deeper rut. That won't help him now or for the future.

One last thought. I don't want the team to play musical quarterbacks. I also don't want stopgap quarterbacks. And I don't want a roster full of backup quarterbacks. Someone among the three guys needs to step up. Ponder has not been able to do that lately.

[Mothman]

I can see the idea behind it, but I just don't know how much good (if any) that will do. I see it like a golfer (which I am) in a funk. You have two ways of dealing with it: 1) You hang the clubs up for a week (or month) and see if that works...somehow. 2) You go to the driving range and work the problem. I'm always in camp #2 because I think practice is more valuable and mechanics are fixable. After beating a few hundred balls for a couple of days, videoing/evaluating my swing, trying new things, etc. I generally come out the other side better than when I went in. Taking time off just makes me rusty. I'm a guy that relies on muscle memory and that seems to deteriorate the more days I go in between practice sessions. Of course, perhaps the problems aren't that similar as it seems Ponder's issues are in his head more than his mechanics (they're there too, likely as a result of what's going on upstairs). I don't know. Maybe he's a guy that would benefit from a concussion to possibly hit his "reset" button.

LOL! Now there's an idea! Maybe they should declare "open season" on him in practice. The defense probably has some frustration to work out anyway.

[purplehaze]

I can see the idea behind it, but I just don't know how much good (if any) that will do. I see it like a golfer (which I am) in a funk. You have two ways of dealing with it: 1) You hang the clubs up for a week (or month) and see if that works...somehow. 2) You go to the driving range and work the problem. I'm always in camp #2 because I think practice is more valuable and mechanics are fixable. After beating a few hundred balls for a couple of days, videoing/evaluating my swing, trying new things, etc. I generally come out the other side better than when I went in. Taking time off just makes me rusty. I'm a guy that relies on muscle memory and that seems to deteriorate the more days I go in between practice sessions. Of course, perhaps the problems aren't that similar as it seems Ponder's issues are in his head more than his mechanics (they're there too, likely as a result of what's going on upstairs). I don't know. Maybe he's a guy that would benefit from a concussion to possibly hit his "reset" button.

I am a golf pro and if Ponder was a student of mine I would tell him to quit and take up bowling. Serioiusly though. Even though I bash him on this board every chance I can get I do not dislike him as a person. I just don't want him wearing purple.

[joe h]

Every team in the NFL is rebuilding. There is no coach or Gm sitting back at this point, laying off their scouts, and 100% content with what they got. At the end of the season, every team will be losing key players to UFA, every team is going to be going over years worth of film trying to find a rookie or free agent to fill voids. What the Vikings are doing now is called losing, and playing minor league ball while a major league season is going on. What happened is they struck out on a position that they thought was shored up.

[dead_poet]

Then again, Jim and I might be right in thinking Ponder needs a break. He needs to watch the field from the sidelines for a bit,

Eh. He watches from the sidelines every time he doesn't have the ball which, lately, has been often. I don't know how it'd benefit from him watching Webb run the show any more than watching Rodgers. I don't see the logic.

And if Webb surprisingly turns out to be the better choice at QB for the long term, then the Vikings need to know that as much as they need to know about Ponder.

This is what I mean. Say Webb does a serviceable job. You now have under two full seasons of starts to evaluate each quarterback by the end of the year. You may disagree, but I don't feel that's enough to present a thorough enough evaluation of either. Now we're in the offseason, splitting first-string reps and have a full-blown QB controversy. AGAIN. From what I've seen of Webb, I'm not confident he's the long-term answer and I don't think the coaching staff does either so I see no point in this charade. I don't want this to be another Tarvaris Jackson "he didn't get a fair chance" debacle. I want a full eval of Ponder on whether or not he's the future starter of this franchise.

What we're getting from Ponder now is mostly an endless loop of identical errors. Rather than run him into the ground, give the guy a breather.

Again, there's two schools of thought here: A) "Getting a breather" and B) "Working through the problem." I just see it differently than you do and see more problems/confusion with starting Webb than keeping with Ponder. We'll have to agree to disagree.

As my Dad used to say, "You can't dig yourself out of a rut." Ponder is digging himself into a deeper rut. That won't help him now or for the future.

He has the ability to bounce back and has shown he can play better. I think it's hard to bounce back when you're watching from the sidelines. And, really, Joe Webb could hardly play worse. So, say Webb loses against Chicago, goes 14/26; 190 yards, a TD and 2 INTs. Now what do you do? I suppose this would be an easier decision if Ponder was in an Alex Smith situation where he was injured and unable to come back for a few weeks because he physically can't.

One last thought. I don't want the team to play musical quarterbacks. I also don't want stopgap quarterbacks. And I don't want a roster full of backup quarterbacks. Someone among the three guys needs to step up. Ponder has not been able to do that lately.

I agree. But, to me, shifting to Webb at this point is like putting a quarter in the machine.

[dead_poet]

Not sure what stop gap always means, a 30 something year old QB who can still run the formations effective or what?

I see a "stopgap" as a veteran on the back end of his career that probably has less than three years left in the league. Serviceable, if you're lucky. Donovan Mcnabb was the epitome of "stopgap."

[joe h]

Manning is a stop gap in Denver, Warner was one in Arizona. Favre and Cunningham were stop gaps here. They work if you can find the right one. The supply is limited, and if you have a stubborn gm, good luck ever landing one.

[dead_poet]

Manning is a stop gap in Denver, Warner was one in Arizona. Favre and Cunningham were stop gaps here. They work if you can find the right one. The supply is limited, and if you have a stubborn gm, good luck ever landing one.

Totally. I'm not saying stopgaps don't work. I'm just tired of them here because they haven't. Even Favre's magical '09 ended up a failure (even though it was a mostly highly entertaining and satisfying season). This franchise is desperate for a guy you can count on for 10+ years. Security at the most important position on the field is a nice thing. That way you're free to spend high draft picks elsewhere.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Yeah we are much better off wasting time on the Tjokes and Ponders then a stop gap QB, while we develope a young QB. No one in the Vikes organization knows enough about QBs to find the right guy. Heck MN has been searching for the right young guy since Pep, and his main claim to fame was having one of the best WRs to ever play.

If it was a rebuilding year, they would have tried out MBT, or whoever on this staff wastes a spot for Webb, would have Webb starting. Its just another excuse year, like the past 7 have been. And we aernt any further in finding a QB. With our luck we pick up Vick, or worse yet, Smith.

[allday1991]

All i have to say is, when you start watching games with your friends (who dont watch alot of football ) and can call what wr is open and ponder cant. For example this last game one of the first plays of the game they had ruldolph and wright coming out to the right as i recall (wright in slot) he forced the ball in (caught by rudolph but almost int) as wright ran wide open undernearth, the announcers even pointed it out(i noticed even my friends did). I understand we have no play makers at wr, but even then 90% of the deep balls ponder throw are either to far out of bounce or to short. even with the lack of player makers ponders bad reads, horrible deep accuracy, and has choked in about ever big pressure game he has been in so far. I've seen enough for an evaluation, next pls! adrian peterson wont be superman forever and i want to see him get the ring he deserves. Only difference from our 09 team ponder and farve, i agree with most of these comments give us a top 8 qb we are in first in the divison...hell give us a qb that averages 200 yards and a td a game and we are almost first (or wildcard).

[JBrowner47]

If we would have landed Payton Manning, or how about if we Drafted RG III instead?

Would we be a 'rebuilding' team right now?

Or would we be 1st seed?

What do you think?

Forget Peyton or RG3. We could have picked Russell Wilson in the 3rd round instead of Josh Robinson while the Seahawks picked him 5 picks after ours too. He was a legit pick. We could have had Matt Kalil, Harrison Smith, Russell Wilson AND Blair Walsh all at this year's draft. YEAH. THAT COULD'VE HAPPENED.

[dead_poet]

We could have picked Russell Wilson in the 3rd round instead of Josh Robinson while the Seahawks picked him 5 picks after ours too..

He's too short to succeed.

[Demi]

He's too short to succeed.

I'll guarantee you right now he'll never win a super bowl.

You can pay up when he announces his retirement.

I think part of the problem with out stopgaps has been a complete lack of any backup plan for the future behind them. We wait until we have NOTHING before draft anyone. The year after a guy is completely shot we try and force a pick. The year after Favre is crippled we consider it. You don't screw with the quarterback position. If there is someone this year, you take them, if not you don't take a QB simply because of how bad our QBs are and have faith. If that means riding a veteran for a while until we find one. Fine. But this is the NFL. Not enough teams are willing to take a truly long term approach (and not just "We'll draft Ponder and voila, franchise QB". But maybe you pass on a Ponder or TJoke that "might" work out, and hopefully a year, two, maybe even three down the road you identify someone who you truly believe can be special...and not special in a Brad Childress, Rick Spielman, Bill Musgrave sort of way either)

It was the same with Williamson, and a couple defensive end picks. We weren't taking them because they were the best available. We were taking them because they were a position we desperately needed. What happened when we decided to take the best player left despite a lack of need at the position? We got a one in a decade or more running back future hall of famer...