Vick on the Vikings?

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by Purple bruise »

Mothman wrote:Even if you ignore Vick's criminal past, he's not what the Vikings need. He's an overrated, injury-prone mediocre QB on the wrong side of 30 and not someone the Vikes should consider signing to be their starter. It's a bad idea.

As for Manning, the odds that he would choose to go to a 3 win NFC team over any other possibility available to him were slim and none.

Agree :thumbsup: And I would add that Manning was very specific about what teams he was interested in playing for. The New York Times NFL section reported on March 16th 2012 that Manning was only interested in playing for the 49er;s the Titans or the Broncos.
I think that the Favre fiasco left them with the reality that building a team through the draft and a young qb was a much better plan. So that "idiot" gm :roll: Spielman went forth and put together a grade A draft and put several of the pieces in place as he is rebuilding. This team has already doubled their win total and seems to be going in the right direction. Time will tell about Ponder but there are a lot of variables to consider in regards to where he is at right now. Playing behind a porous o-line, with the worst receiver corp in the league and now without Harvin it is probably hard to make any good judgement or assesment.
And oh by the way Jim, can you imagine the criticism that would be bestowed on Vick if he played for the Vikings like he has played for the Eagles :?: :roll:
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by Mothman »

Purple bruise wrote:Agree :thumbsup: And I would add that Manning was very specific about what teams he was interested in playing for. The New York Times NFL section reported on March 16th 2012 that Manning was only interested in playing for the 49er;s the Titans or the Broncos.
I think that the Favre fiasco left them with the reality that building a team through the draft and a young qb was a much better plan. So that "idiot" gm :roll: Spielman went forth and put together a grade A draft and put several of the pieces in place as he is rebuilding. This team has already doubled their win total and seems to be going in the right direction. Time will tell about Ponder but there are a lot of variables to consider in regards to where he is at right now. Playing behind a porous o-line, with the worst receiver corp in the league and now without Harvin it is probably hard to make any good judgement or assesment.
And oh by the way Jim, can you imagine the criticism that would be bestowed on Vick if he played for the Vikings like he has played for the Eagles :?: :roll:
It would be brutal.
HornedMessiah
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:32 pm
Location: nodakoda

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by HornedMessiah »

Boon wrote:To add to this, throw in a walking concrete block like nick foles behind that same line and you see what happens. Philly fans have been crying for foles, now they see what the real issue is
Looking back...it really seems like Juan Castillo's move from oline coach to D coordinator was the start of the Eagles completely falling apart. Sure there was the whole "dream team" thing and Asante Samuel ripping the front office for playing "fantasy football", but promoting Castillo from oline coach to DC was a huge "huh?" headscratching move.

Having Vick on the Vikes would probably be entertaining as hell because he is a special athlete (when he's healthy) and he would obviously be a major upgrade over Ponder. BUT...it won't happen. 2009-2010 is still fresh in this team's mind and they've made it clear that a youth movement is underway and they don't feel that they're one player away from being a SB contender..

People need to just accept the fact that, barring a massive meltdown, Ponder will be the starting QB in 2013. However, IF the team decides that some time on the bench could benefit his development, then Vick is probably the best veteran QB option out there.
HardcoreVikesFan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6652
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:28 pm
x 21

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

Personally, I have always liked Michael Vick. Yes, the dog fighting was awful, but Vick's personal life is his personal life. I am the last person to tell someone what choices they should make in life.


If Vick signed here, I would not care. I would actually be in favor of the move. However, it is not going to happen. Ponder will the QB in 2013.
A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.
thatguy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5188
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:25 pm
Location: Too far from MN...

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by thatguy »

I'm a strong proponent of sticking with Ponder for the time being because we need to develop a true franchise QB...however, with what's going on in San Fran, I really would love if the Vikings made a play at Alex Smith this offseason. He's definitely young enough that we can keep him around for a while and not have to consider him a one or two-year rental like Favre and Gus Frerrotte were. If there's any chance of picking up Alex Smith, I'd hope they would make a move (though I doubt it).

As for Vick, not only do I not want him on my team because he's a thug, but I really just don't want him on the team because of his vanishing skillset. He's also extremely injury-prone from everything I've seen from Philly (I live out here, so I have to watch a lot of Eagles games :/ ).

Alex Smith - Yes. Michael Vick - No.

If it's not Alex Smith, I don't want them to make a trade/move for a veteran QB at all.
"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it." ~Thucydides
losperros
Commissioner
Posts: 10041
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Location: Burbank, California

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by losperros »

thatguy wrote:I'm a strong proponent of sticking with Ponder for the time being because we need to develop a true franchise QB...however, with what's going on in San Fran, I really would love if the Vikings made a play at Alex Smith this offseason. He's definitely young enough that we can keep him around for a while and not have to consider him a one or two-year rental like Favre and Gus Frerrotte were. If there's any chance of picking up Alex Smith, I'd hope they would make a move (though I doubt it).

As for Vick, not only do I not want him on my team because he's a thug, but I really just don't want him on the team because of his vanishing skillset. He's also extremely injury-prone from everything I've seen from Philly (I live out here, so I have to watch a lot of Eagles games :/ ).

Alex Smith - Yes. Michael Vick - No.

If it's not Alex Smith, I don't want them to make a trade/move for a veteran QB at all.
I don't know what to think about Alex Smith at this point. I always thought he was pretty good. If Ponder doesn't improve, then maybe that's something the Vikings should look into. But I do want Ponder to at least finish out the season so the Vikings can be certain that he is or is not the guy.

As for Vick, I agree with you and Moth about him. Vick is a bad fit, too old, has eroding skills, and gets hurt too often. It would be another stopgap QB move by the Vikings and I'm sick of that kind of dynamic for the offense.
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote:As for Vick, I agree with you and Moth about him. Vick is a bad fit, too old, has eroding skills, and gets hurt too often. It would be another stopgap QB move by the Vikings and I'm sick of that kind of dynamic for the offense.
I am too and on top of all the football-related reasons not to sign Vick, there's the fact that he would alienate a portion of the fan base that deserves better than to be asked to cheer for a convicted felon who went to prison for his role in a dog fighting scandal. Vick's not even close to the answer at QB the Vikes need.

I don't want Alex Smith either. I mean no offense to those who want him to become a Viking but that's a "grass is always greener" idea if I've ever heard one and I can't imagine Vikes fans who are dissatisfied with Ponder would be happy with Smith for long. Heck, he's basically Ponder in 6 years if Ponder only gets marginally better. :soap
User avatar
PurpleKoolaid
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8641
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm
x 28

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

Vick is the exact kind of Qb we DONT need. I knew there would be discussion about it. Yeah, he is better then Ponder, but who isnt? Really, which starting QB isnt?

I want a pocket passer here. One that only moves out of the pocket rarely, but can avoid pressure by stepping around it. I personally cant stand Vick and what hes done. I hope his carraer is over. But some desperate team will pick him up.
User avatar
jackal
Strong Safety
Posts: 11583
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:05 am
Location: California
x 5

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by jackal »

no NO NO NO NO
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Rus
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4317
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:22 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by Rus »

One of many reasons the Vikings have rarely been capable of developing a franchise quarterback is because Viking fans are about the most impatient in the country with quarterbacks. If a rookie is struggling after 3 games, it's practically guaranteed that a huge outcry for the backup quarterback will begin. Guaranteed. I've been watching this trend my whole life. I first witnessed it with Tommy Kramer and Wade Wilson. The most ridiculous were the calls to bench Culpepper in favor of Todd Bouman, but we all pledged to forget about those.

The only sure fire way to land yourself an early winner is to draft REALLY high. The Vikings don't do that very often. In fact, 3rd last year is about as high as I can remember since I was a little kid. When you don't draft high, it's a matter of incredible luck, a matter of having an offensive coordinator set up a gimmicky offense that often gets figured out eventually and THEN shut down, or serious patience.

Think Brad Johnson took one year to develop? NO. He didn't. Culpepper was able to lean on the fact that he was built like a tight end for his first full year of playing (after sitting a year). When teams figured him out, it was UGLY. So bad that people were demanding Todd Bouman.

The truth is, too, that the Vikings defense is full of holes. A solid defense makes any quarterback look good. There are just spots in the front 7 that need work and teams are taking advantage of them. When your young quarterback is forced into having to make big plays, it's not a good situation at all. They've tried Webb out in these sorts of situations in the past, gambling that his athleticism might be enough to throw opposing defenses off their game...statistically that hasn't worked all that well. It's very possible that we've all bought into a lot of hype about Joe Webb's athleticism without understanding how well he could translate that to the position.

Ultimately, this has been a good season, considering last season. Sure, we could go back to bad draft picks, making a little noise in the divisional series in the playoffs by nabbing some retread vet quarterback...or we could do what the teams that win do. Be patient and develop your guy. If you thought the team was going to be a playoff team this year in the preseason, you were high. Yet, they're still contending for that in December. That means the team is moving in the right direction even though it's developing a lot of young talent and is still a draft away.
-Rus
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by Purple bruise »

Rus wrote:One of many reasons the Vikings have rarely been capable of developing a franchise quarterback is because Viking fans are about the most impatient in the country with quarterbacks. If a rookie is struggling after 3 games, it's practically guaranteed that a huge outcry for the backup quarterback will begin. Guaranteed. I've been watching this trend my whole life. I first witnessed it with Tommy Kramer and Wade Wilson. The most ridiculous were the calls to bench Culpepper in favor of Todd Bouman, but we all pledged to forget about those.

The only sure fire way to land yourself an early winner is to draft REALLY high. The Vikings don't do that very often. In fact, 3rd last year is about as high as I can remember since I was a little kid. When you don't draft high, it's a matter of incredible luck, a matter of having an offensive coordinator set up a gimmicky offense that often gets figured out eventually and THEN shut down, or serious patience.

Think Brad Johnson took one year to develop? NO. He didn't. Culpepper was able to lean on the fact that he was built like a tight end for his first full year of playing (after sitting a year). When teams figured him out, it was UGLY. So bad that people were demanding Todd Bouman.




The truth is, too, that the Vikings defense is full of holes. A solid defense makes any quarterback look good. There are just spots in the front 7 that need work and teams are taking advantage of them. When your young quarterback is forced into having to make big plays, it's not a good situation at all. They've tried Webb out in these sorts of situations in the past, gambling that his athleticism might be enough to throw opposing defenses off their game...statistically that hasn't worked all that well. It's very possible that we've all bought into a lot of hype about Joe Webb's athleticism without understanding how well he could translate that to the position.

Ultimately, this has been a good season, considering last season. Sure, we could go back to bad draft picks, making a little noise in the divisional series in the playoffs by nabbing some retread vet quarterback...or we could do what the teams that win do. Be patient and develop your guy. If you thought the team was going to be a playoff team this year in the preseason, you were high. Yet, they're still contending for that in December. That means the team is moving in the right direction even though it's developing a lot of young talent and is still a draft away.

A voice of reason, one of only a few :thumbsup:
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
BGM
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5948
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 11:39 am

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by BGM »

admvp wrote: Oh is that so? Hmmm. Well let me ask you something: Who are YOU to judge HIM? What puts you in the high-and-mighty position to say whether or not he should get a second chance? How can you justifiably make such a judgment? Why can't he repent? Why can't he find forgiveness? Why can't he be truly sorry for his actions and change as a human being? Because people DO change. And people who change for the better DO deserve second chances.

After his release, it did not take long before I was, once again, a Vick fan. I always was before the incident, and the moment I believed him to be truly sorry (I still do), I became a fan once again. I HATE Philadelphia, yet I found myself rooting hard for them simply because of Mike Vick. He is an absolute athletic phenomenon (or was), and I love watching him play. I'd love to see him in purple.

Based simply on this post I can see this is something you and I fundamentally disagree on, so I will not pursue it too far. However, this is something that I feel very strongly about, so I wasn't about to let this unfair, and, in my opinion, totally ridiculous comment go without a response. We are all Vikings fans here, so don't get the wrong idea. I'm not taking a shot at you; rather I'm just stating my disagreement. As I said, I couldn't NOT respond to this.
If you would like to know exactly how I feel about this, I encourage you to check out this discussion from back in 2010.

http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/view ... k&start=30

You may see it as me as being a judgmental jerk, and that is fine and your opinion. But, for me, it's about someone doing something so fundamentally cruel and reprehensible and STILL being allowed to do something that is a huge privilege - not a right. YMMV. I also have deep and emotional opinions on this issue. And I stand by every word.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa
User avatar
chicagopurple
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
x 88

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by chicagopurple »

40 yr Vike fan here and let me assure you, I will stop driving 6-7 hrs for all the home games if they were to put this Sub-Human slime named Vick on MY team. He didn't just fight dogs, he hung them from friggin trees and tortured them to death!! Only sociopaths do this vile ####. Sociopaths can put on a good face and fool folks for a while but just wait.....they will kill, torture, rape again....and abusing animals is usually followed later by doing the same to kids or women. Only a fool would buy into his "I am a changed man" routine....You believe it?? Let him date your daughter, let him babysit your kids....go ahead.....

Far less importantly, he isn't the freaky good QB he used to be. He now chronically under throws his receivers EXACTLY like our LAST ex-Philly QB......no thank you
User avatar
chicagopurple
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
x 88

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by chicagopurple »

OH and BGM...who am I to judge Vick??

I am someone who never tortured the helpless
I am someone who knows right from wrong
I am someone who, when my team FINALLY WINS IT ALL (vikes/cubs...aaargh) I do NOT want if polluted by a scumbag in my teams uniform
I am someone who takes care of people who have been abused, raped, tortured by the Sub-Human Michael Vicks of this world....

so get off your Holier-Then-Thou trip...good people CAN judge when the witness evil....we Know the difference.
admvp
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 509
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Vick on the Vikings?

Post by admvp »

chicagopurple wrote:they will kill, torture, rape again....and abusing animals is usually followed later by doing the same to kids or women. Only a fool would buy into his "I am a changed man" routine
Dude. How can you know that? Please, tell me, how do you KNOW this? Your accusations that he will automatically turn to even more heinous crimes are wrong, unfair, and just plain MEAN. Why is Vick is automatically just like 'the rest'? Vick isn't allowed to change or be sincerely sorry? Why is that exactly? Because you say so? RIDICULOUS!!!! I can't stand it when people don't believe in other people's ability to CHANGE. As a human being (yes, Vick's human, not sub-human, sorry to break it to you), I feel it is my debt to have faith in and show support for all my fellow humans until they prove me wrong once and for all.
chicagopurple wrote:OH and BGM...who am I to judge Vick??

I am someone who never tortured the helpless
I am someone who knows right from wrong
I am someone who, when my team FINALLY WINS IT ALL (vikes/cubs...aaargh) I do NOT want if polluted by a scumbag in my teams uniform
I am someone who takes care of people who have been abused, raped, tortured by the Sub-Human Michael Vicks of this world....

so get off your Holier-Then-Thou trip...good people CAN judge when the witness evil....we Know the difference.
I asked the question, not BGM.

It's difficult to convey to you the ridiculousness of your post(s). You're making a real jerk out of yourself, that's for sure. If someone said this to me in person, about Vick or anyone, I'd hit them in the face. Not really, but I'd want to. Just because you haven't done any of the same wrongdoings as he has doesn't qualify you to judge ANYONE. In fact, NO HUMAN should be allowed to judge ANOTHER HUMAN. Unless, of course, you are the Second Coming and you yourself have committed 0 sins and wrongdoings in your lifetime. I doubt it.

Look, I'm going to avoid getting into a religious argument. That isn't my goal here. But I WILL cite a famous Bible verse: "May the one of you who is without sin cast the first stone." This is how I live my life with everybody. Not trying to paint myself as some sort of saint; that couldn't be further from the truth. But I encourage you to rethink your position and do the same. You've committed wrongdoings. I've committed wrongdoings. And Michael Vick has committed wrongdoings. None of us can really make judgments on one another.

Newsflash: the one on the "Holier-Than-Thou" trip is not me. It is YOU. Thinking you are somehow better than someone because they haven't committed the same crimes, judging others without truly getting to know them... THAT, my friend, is the VERY DEFINITION of a holier-than-thou attitude. Do you not think forgiveness is a good thing? Do you not think you should ever have to forgive Vick simply because his crimes are of a higher degree than yours or mine? Forgiveness shouldn't be conditional. People who aren't willing to forgive others when they are truly sorry are the worst kind of people. Judgmental people like you are the biggest hypocrits you will find anywhere. And I really don't like people like that.
Last edited by admvp on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Post Reply