We Should Trade Picks And Cash On Hand for a Legit Coach

[Hunter Morrow]

Somebody described us perfectly here: "The Dumping Ground"

We're bankrolled by billionaires and have the best running back in the league and yet we are the Fischer Price "My First Time Coaching" toy of the league.

This team is in DESPERATE need of a quality coach.

Vikings have heard this a lot. "The Quarterback of the Future."

Well, lets 5 Year Plan it out, shall we? 5 years from now, if Frazier and Musgrave are around, do we have a Super Bowl ring? I sure as hell don't think we do.

So why waste our time? All the thought is on the quarterback and what teams have as their quarterback when they win the Super Bowl but what about the coaches?
Has a Frazier caliber guy got there in the past 10 years?

Look at some of the names in the past 15 years who got there...

Holmgren, Shanahan, Parcells, Bellichick, Dungy, Coughlin...

The only time our team ever made the Super Bowl it had a Hall of Fame coach, Bud Grant, all 4 times.

I think we need to stop lying to ourselves and stop saying the solution is in house and try to get somebody we think is elite coaching material, with cash or picks.

[Cliff]

Has a Frazier caliber guy got there in the past 10 years?

I think Mike Tomlin probably counts. I think he actually asended to head coaching through the Vikings DC spot too.

[Mothman]

I think Mike Tomlin probably counts. I think he actually asended to head coaching through the Vikings DC spot too.

Yes, he did.

Super Bowl coaches in the past 10 years:

Tom Coughlin
Bill Belichick
Mike McCarthy
Mike Tomlin
Sean Payton
Jim Caldwell
Ken Whisenhunt
Tony Dungy
Lovie Smith
Bill Cowher
Mike Holmgren
Andy Reid
John Fox
Jon Gruden
Bill Callahan

I'm not sure what constitutes a "Frazier-caliber guy" anyway. At this point, do we really know just how good or bad Frazier can be as a head coach? He took over a mess as an interim HC and inherited a massive rebuilding project so i don't think there should be a reasonable expectation of high win totals yet. He hasn't even completed his second year as the official HC yet. The Vikes have doubled their win total from last year under his guidance and they're in the playoff hunt as we enter December. Those seem like good signs. I'd say the jury is still out on Frazier.

A first time head coach is as capable of getting a team to a Super Bowl as a head coach with his second or third team. The real issues are getting the right coach, putting together the right mix of talent and then getting lucky enough to have everybody stay healthy when needed.

[DarthBrooks]

It's funny that Fraizer was considered an up and coming coach when he was hired. In some ways the experiences of other teams / coaches runs against setting fire to the team. Bill Walsh's first year was 2-14, his second was 6-10. Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in his first year, 7-9 in his second. Bud Grant went 3-8-3 (three ties? how frustrating would that have been?) and went 8-6 in his second.

So let's fire a coach who won three or less games in his first season and 6 or eight in his second. They never work out.

[mondry]

Yes, he did.

Super Bowl coaches in the past 10 years:

Tom Coughlin
Bill Belichick
Mike McCarthy
Mike Tomlin
Sean Payton
Jim Caldwell
Ken Whisenhunt
Tony Dungy
Lovie Smith
Bill Cowher
Mike Holmgren
Andy Reid
John Fox
Jon Gruden
Bill Callahan

I'm not sure what constitutes a "Frazier-caliber guy" anyway. At this point, do we really know just how good or bad Frazier can be as a head coach? He took over a mess as an interim HC and inherited a massive rebuilding project so i don't think there should be a reasonable expectation of high win totals yet. He hasn't even completed his second year as the official HC yet. The Vikes have doubled their win total from last year under his guidance and they're in the playoff hunt as we enter December. Those seem like good signs. I'd say the jury is still out on Frazier.

A first time head coach is as capable of getting a team to a Super Bowl as a head coach with his second or third team. The real issues are getting the right coach, putting together the right mix of talent and then getting lucky enough to have everybody stay healthy when needed.

I guess a "Frazier-caliber guy" is someone who hasn't coached in a superbowl which means about 72% of all the current coaches are "Frazier-caliber guys"

It's cool though, we can just offer some picks to NE and they'll ship Belichick over next season.

[S197]

I'm not calling for his head but Frazier still has to prove a lot in these next few weeks. Doubling his wins is nothing to really tout when you only won 3 last year. If my kid went from getting "F's" to "C's" I wouldn't exactly be putting bumper stickers on my car showing his achievement.

That being said, I don't expect a complete turnaround in one season so I'd like to see the Vikings win at least two more games and finish at .500. That, I think would be a solid turnaround. At minimum, 1 more win and be at least competitive down the stretch. I recognize the tough schedule but having FOX switch games at HALFTIME is downright embarrassing. IF that continues, I think his job security should definitely be in question.

[mansquatch]

Seriously: LOL


Frasier went 3-13 in his first season. He is 6-5 right now. So at worst he will have improved 100% in season 2, with a said rebuilding roster. I’m not for this, I still recall that with Brad Childress you can go from a playoff team to the mess Frasier inherited in just 4 short years…

IMO, the coach is not as big of a deal as everyone makes it out. Yes they matter a lot, but how many coaches are great because they have a franchise QB? Were the 90s Dallas teams great because of Jimmy Johnson? I’m a fan of Belicick, but I really wonder sometimes if he would be talked about in the same air if he hadn’t lucked into Tom Brady. (In 2-3 years we’ll find out, my guess is Belicick is smart enough that he’ll retire when Brady walks away.) Look what has happened in Philly since McFlab fell off the bandwagon. Andy Reid might get canned. Is it because he is a horrible coach or is it because he has no QB and Jim Johnson (the real talent in that org, IMO) passed away far too early in life?

At this point I’m not convinced the Frasier is so terrible that it is worth playing musical coaches, we could just as easily end up for the worse. It would also probably mean wasting the last of the prime of JA and maybe AP. I’m not there yet.

[mondry]

Seriously: LOL


Frasier went 3-13 in his first season. He is 6-5 right now. So at worst he will have improved 100% in season 2, with a said rebuilding roster. I’m not for this, I still recall that with Brad Childress you can go from a playoff team to the mess Frasier inherited in just 4 short years…

IMO, the coach is not as big of a deal as everyone makes it out. Yes they matter a lot, but how many coaches are great because they have a franchise QB? Were the 90s Dallas teams great because of Jimmy Johnson? I’m a fan of Belicick, but I really wonder sometimes if he would be talked about in the same air if he hadn’t lucked into Tom Brady. (In 2-3 years we’ll find out, my guess is Belicick is smart enough that he’ll retire when Brady walks away.) Look what has happened in Philly since McFlab fell off the bandwagon. Andy Reid might get canned. Is it because he is a horrible coach or is it because he has no QB and Jim Johnson (the real talent in that org, IMO) passed away far too early in life?

At this point I’m not convinced the Frasier is so terrible that it is worth playing musical coaches, we could just as easily end up for the worse. It would also probably mean wasting the last of the prime of JA and maybe AP. I’m not there yet.

IMO even head coaches just aren't that big of a factor. DCs, OCs, and positonal coaches seem far more important. I thought Childress was one of the worst coaches ever but with Brett Favre and a pretty strong team they go to the NFCCG. I thought ken Wisenhunt was a pretty good coach but without kurt warner that team hasn't done much.

I guess the main thing you look for in a head coach, aside from making the proper decisions ON game day, is one who brings it OC, DC, and other positional coaches that are good hah!

[PurpleMustReign]

People kept pointing at Childress's record improvement in each of his seasons, but we all knew he was a crap coach who would never get the Vikings to the next level, which turned out to be true.
Frasier will not get the Vikings to the Super Bowl. I just have that feeling about him.

[Mercy Percy]

People kept pointing at Childress's record improvement in each of his seasons, but we all knew he was a crap coach who would never get the Vikings to the next level, which turned out to be true.
Frasier will not get the Vikings to the Super Bowl. I just have that feeling about him.

Just because you have that feeling doesnt give any rationale on why Frazier shouldnt be a head coach? I had a feeling Eli Manning was a huge bust. I had a feeling RGIII Would play worse than Cam Newton. Feelings aside you gotta look at facts. and their are non that support getting rid of Frazier.

[chicagopurple]

Honestly, I believe that anyone who has spent the time watching the Vikes every play and then post here must be bright enough to realize that Frazier has been counter productive. He virtually ignores AP, His play calling is redefining the word Vanillla, There has been NO half-time adjustments, and given a bye week he clearly managed to figure out nothing about his up-coming opponent. When you stop to think about, what exactly were Leslies NFL coaching accomplishments prior to being given the reigns of MY favorite NFL team?? NOTHING....he had done NOTHING and he was given this job.....its pitiful.

[PurpleKoolaid]

First off this is Fraizers 3rd year as HC, not full seasons, but more then 2 years. He led us to the worst season we have ever had(tied). Who couldnt do better we someone who is will to spend money like the Wilf's? Fraizer hasnt done a thing to prove hes a good HC. In fact I partially blame him for how bad our D has gotten. I mean whats a deffensive HC do? Has he ever gotten the vikes ready for a road game? Or division game other then the Lions who may still be worse then us.

[Purple bruise]

How strange that such a horrible coach has such a horrible team, with a horrible QB within striking distance of getting a play-off spot.

[viking_guy]

I look at it this way: this season itself is like a game - 2 halves. the first half of games and the season the vikings do/did pretty well, then halftime comes around. the second half starts and the vikings opponents see what worked and what didn't and adapt - the vikings don't and as a result don't do very well. for this very reason I think a coaching change is needed. The Vikings have some very talented players, and a top notch coach can that much more out of them and be able to draw in the key free agents to make the team better.

[Eli]

It's funny that Fraizer was considered an up and coming coach when he was hired. In some ways the experiences of other teams / coaches runs against setting fire to the team. Bill Walsh's first year was 2-14, his second was 6-10. Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in his first year, 7-9 in his second. Bud Grant went 3-8-3 (three ties? how frustrating would that have been?) and went 8-6 in his second.

So let's fire a coach who won three or less games in his first season and 6 or eight in his second. They never work out.

You're right. This is a non-issue. Frazier isn't going anywhere. He'll be back next year and most of his staff will remain intact.

These discussions aren't even interesting any more.