Jim's postgame thoughts

[PurpleMustReign]

I'm just so used to seeing Jim start a thread here, I am going through withdrawls with it not here yet...

[Mothman]

LOL!

Thanks for starting the thread for me.

I've posted most of my post-game thoughts in other threads but to summarize briefly:

The Vikings didn't have a starting-caliber WR on the field today. Wright was the closest but I don't think he's really there yet. The Bears had no trouble at all defending the Vikes passing game and poor WR play was the #1 reason. #2 was Ponder, who made some nice throws but was inconsistent again and threw several passes high and/or late, one of which was picked off.

Turnovers dumb penalties, poor execution (shanked punt, missed tackles, etc.) killed the Vikings today. If they want to take the next step, they need to minimize that stuff, especially on the road against a divisional opponent.

I was seriously disappointed in the DL. They gave Cutler way too much time and he took advantage of it.

Winfield played a strong game and was one of the few Vikes that stood out in a positive way. Rudolph was another and I hope he's okay (I think he suffered an injury in the third or fourth quarter.

Musgrave was as inconsistent as his QB. That has to change.

Simpson's drop on the drive after the Vikes recovered Forte's fumble was huge. If he had held onto that pass, they would have been in position to go on and score a TD. Letting the Bears come out of that situation only allowing 3 points was a win for them.

The 8 minute TD drive the defense allowed in the second quarter was a real back-breaker.

It was a beautiful day in Chicago and a great day to see a football game outdoors... even that one. I just wish it had been a more competitive game.

[petev_sj]

I just saw the post game interview with Antoine Winfield. He basically said the Bears didn't throw anything at them that they didn't know was coming. So that means the team had a good game plan. It was just a matter of the Bears wanting it more today. How often did we see the Bears RB and WR get contact then just push their way forward for more yardage?

The team just needs to do a little soul searching. Even at 6-5, they are still very much in the playoff hunt. The question is, do they have the will to do what it takes to get there? I am a total believer in the any given Sunday mantra. Lets start the ball rolling next week with a shocker in Green Bay.

[VikingLord]

LOL!

The Vikings didn't have a starting-caliber WR on the field today. Wright was the closest but I don't think he's really there yet. The Bears had no trouble at all defending the Vikes passing game and poor WR play was the #1 reason. #2 was Ponder, who made some nice throws but was inconsistent again and threw several passes high and/or late, one of which was picked off.

I continue to scratch my head as to why you seem to want to place the bulk of the blame for the poor passing offense on the WRs. From what I saw, all of Ponder's flaws came back in full force today. He was skittish and left the pocket early numerous times. When he did leave it he ran sideways and backwards, not to find a place to set and deliver a strike, but all the way to the sideline and then made usually a half-hearted attempt to throw it away before going out of bounds. On his deep throws he was once again throwing off his back foot, causing the ball to consistently sail high on him. He had guys open and made some decent throws, but there was just not enough production from him. Again.

Sure, the WR's stink, but speaking of open, did you see the windows Cutler threw into most of the day? Cutler didn't have receivers more open than what Ponder had. In fact, I think the Bears lined up 3 healthy WR's, plus they lost Forte. Plus they have a crappy offensive line. And Cutler still escaped pressure like a pro QB, found a place to set and throw, made mechanically sound throws even on plays with broken protection, and threw into tight, sometimes even non-existent, windows.

I think it's pointless to even talk about this. Those who want to absolve Ponder of blame are going to find any number of excuses for him. He has a bad offensive line. He's a 2nd-year player. His WR's can't get "open enough" (whatever that means), the playcalling stinks, etc. At some point it's going to be obvious to everyone that Ponder is not the answer at QB. As much as we all want him to be and the Vikes need him to be, he just isn't going to be.

[smoothoperator]

our wrs had 9 drops today and marshall had 12 catches. marshalls 12 receptions were not all due to good throws by cutler, but by him just being an athletic freak. cutlers 188 yards, 1 td and 1 int are not impressive for a 7th year veteran.

[Mercy Percy]

our wrs had 9 drops today and marshall had 12 catches. marshalls 12 receptions were not all due to good throws by cutler, but by him just being an athletic freak. cutlers 188 yards, 1 td and 1 int are not impressive for a 7th year veteran.

Thanks for summarizing what I wanted to say. Some of the catches Marshall Made were crazy! Name another receiver on the Bears who had a good game? Point made. None of the Vikings came to play today. Drops are drive killers and the turnovers didnt help. We wills see what its like when we get Percy back and go against them in a couple of weeks.

[CalVike]

Thanks for summarizing what I wanted to say. Some of the catches Marshall Made were crazy! Name another receiver on the Bears who had a good game? Point made. None of the Vikings came to play today. Drops are drive killers and the turnovers didnt help. We wills see what its like when we get Percy back and go against them in a couple of weeks.

Spare me the supporting cast argument. They say the same crap about his time at Fla St, very few of his supporting cast drafted. At what point do the excuses stop and powers that be state he has never played well enough to be considered even a middle tier NFL QB?

[saint33]

I continue to scratch my head as to why you seem to want to place the bulk of the blame for the poor passing offense on the WRs. From what I saw, all of Ponder's flaws came back in full force today. He was skittish and left the pocket early numerous times. When he did leave it he ran sideways and backwards, not to find a place to set and deliver a strike, but all the way to the sideline and then made usually a half-hearted attempt to throw it away before going out of bounds. On his deep throws he was once again throwing off his back foot, causing the ball to consistently sail high on him. He had guys open and made some decent throws, but there was just not enough production from him. Again.

Sure, the WR's stink, but speaking of open, did you see the windows Cutler threw into most of the day? Cutler didn't have receivers more open than what Ponder had. In fact, I think the Bears lined up 3 healthy WR's, plus they lost Forte. Plus they have a crappy offensive line. And Cutler still escaped pressure like a pro QB, found a place to set and throw, made mechanically sound throws even on plays with broken protection, and threw into tight, sometimes even non-existent, windows.

I think it's pointless to even talk about this. Those who want to absolve Ponder of blame are going to find any number of excuses for him. He has a bad offensive line. He's a 2nd-year player. His WR's can't get "open enough" (whatever that means), the playcalling stinks, etc. At some point it's going to be obvious to everyone that Ponder is not the answer at QB. As much as we all want him to be and the Vikes need him to be, he just isn't going to be.

I'm confused why you seem to think it has to be one or the other? Ponder has looked lost at times, is skittish in the pocket and isnt showing much progress, but why does that change the fact that he's not getting any help from his WRs? He threw numerous balls that should hav been caught that weren't, one for a td. You want to look at cutlets escapability and ability to throw from different spots on the field and different body positions, which is fine (although I think that cutler is actually quite exceptional with both escapability and ball release) but I'd also like to point out Marshall made most of his catches in tight double coverage. I wish we had a receiver who could catch the ball in tight single coverage, let alone double. Hell today we had guys wide open who couldn't catch the ball.

Ponder shares the blame, but I don't believe he should shoulder the majority of the blame. The passing offense as a whole is a mess, and switching ponder for Webb will make no more difference than switching Jenkins for burton, or disco for Schwartz

[Raptorman]

You know what really sucks, had the Vikings won, with the Packers loss tonight the Vikings would have had the divisions lead.

[CalVike]

The Vikings didn't have a starting-caliber WR on the field today. Wright was the closest but I don't think he's really there yet. The Bears had no trouble at all defending the Vikes passing game and poor WR play was the #1 reason. #2 was Ponder, who made some nice throws but was inconsistent again and threw several passes high and/or late, one of which was picked off.

...

I continue to scratch my head as to why you seem to want to place the bulk of the blame for the poor passing offense on the WRs. From what I saw, all of Ponder's flaws came back in full force today.

My take is that BOTH Ponder and his WRs were completely unacceptable today and have been for much of the season. I hope the talent evaluators recognize soon that BOTH components may need immediate upgrade, but I fear excuses will keep Ponder in play much longer than appropriate. Go Vikes!

[PurpleKoolaid]

I'm confused why you seem to think it has to be one or the other? Ponder has looked lost at times, is skittish in the pocket and isnt showing much progress, but why does that change the fact that he's not getting any help from his WRs? He threw numerous balls that should hav been caught that weren't, one for a td. You want to look at cutlets escapability and ability to throw from different spots on the field and different body positions, which is fine (although I think that cutler is actually quite exceptional with both escapability and ball release) but I'd also like to point out Marshall made most of his catches in tight double coverage. I wish we had a receiver who could catch the ball in tight single coverage, let alone double. Hell today we had guys wide open who couldn't catch the ball.

Ponder shares the blame, but I don't believe he should shoulder the majority of the blame. The passing offense as a whole is a mess, and switching ponder for Webb will make no more difference than switching Jenkins for burton, or disco for Schwartz

We put in a QB that can make more then 1 read, doesnt have to throw the ball within a second, doesnt have happy, and can throw moving and not look like a circus freak, and we would be in the playoff run even with the problems we are having on D. Because the door for AD would be wide open. No D lok to cover ponder deep. Why should they? Hes just to hit or miss. But he isnt nly to blame, but if you pick 1 player that shares the most blame, its him. JA isnt earning his check, now is Carlson. And Simpson isnt the savious of Ponder so many thought he would be. He trash.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Im interested Saint33, during the Childress era, were you supporting him and Tjoke too? Right till the end? Or after the Favre failior, were you ready for them to move on too?

[saint33]

Im interested Saint33, during the Childress era, were you supporting him and Tjoke too? Right till the end? Or after the Favre failior, were you ready for them to move on too?

First of all, what does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting I'm supporting ponder?

And I didn't support the Childress era anymore than your typical fan, I gave Childress the benefit of the doubt for awhile because of our record.

[mondry]

I'm confused why you seem to think it has to be one or the other? Ponder has looked lost at times, is skittish in the pocket and isnt showing much progress, but why does that change the fact that he's not getting any help from his WRs? He threw numerous balls that should hav been caught that weren't, one for a td. You want to look at cutlets escapability and ability to throw from different spots on the field and different body positions, which is fine (although I think that cutler is actually quite exceptional with both escapability and ball release) but I'd also like to point out Marshall made most of his catches in tight double coverage. I wish we had a receiver who could catch the ball in tight single coverage, let alone double. Hell today we had guys wide open who couldn't catch the ball.

Ponder shares the blame, but I don't believe he should shoulder the majority of the blame. The passing offense as a whole is a mess, and switching ponder for Webb will make no more difference than switching Jenkins for burton, or disco for Schwartz

For sure, to sum it all up, we're essentially a dink and dunk offense that relies on completing a high percentage of passes to slowly move the ball. Ponder has shown that he is as capable as anyone running such an offense. The problem is, it means you have to execute play after play with little room for error. For examples sake, let's say ponder makes a mistake like a bad throw once every five plays. Let's say the O-line botches it's protection once every five times. Let's say a WR drops a catchable ball once every five times. Let's say Musgrave makes a bad play call once every five times.

Now here you have a bunch of things that are only happening at about a 20% chance individually, but collectively it means a mistake is happening quite often. Now because it's a dink and dunk offense with very little explosive plays, any one of these problems triggering most likely results in the drive ending.

[S197]

Rudolph was another and I hope he's okay (I think he suffered an injury in the third or fourth quarter.

Went in to be checked for a concussion. I'm not sure which play it happened on but it might have been when Lance Briggs absolutely crushed him while he was running a crossing route near the endzone.