A good piece from Pelissero regarding what pro scouts who scout the Vikes are saying. It's pretty damning when it comes to Ponder and the passing game (which is what you'd expect).
Even during the Vikings' 4-1 start, they were somewhat one-dimensional. They ranked 24th in the NFL in passing offense through Week 5 before falling to 30th while losing three of their past four, twice netting fewer than 45 passing yards.
Quarterback Christian Ponder was accurate and efficient enough in the early going to keep the chains moving and help cover the Vikings' flaws -- in particular, a receiving corps that relies almost exclusively on Percy Harvin to turn short passes into long gains.
But as defenses have gathered more detailed probability charts, they've choked up on Harvin, increasingly taken away his outlets to tight end Kyle Rudolph and left Ponder waiting for routes that aren't coming open downfield with inferior receivers.
"I don't think we had any answer for Adrian whatsoever," said another NFL scout whose team played the Vikings this season. "Me personally, I was kind of hoping you guys threw it. That way we had a chance to kind of get after Christian a little bit, get some pressure on him.
"Outside of Percy, I don't consider any of those guys really threats. Obviously, I really like Rudolph, but he's not a stretch-you-down-the-field type of guy. I'm not a huge Jerome Simpson fan. I thought as long as we could get them to throw, we'll be all right."
There's more at the link and I can't really argue with most of it. I just hope the changes the Vikes have made this week pay significant dividends and that Ponder and co. step up and start performing much, much better.
Mothman wrote:
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Peli ... 110912?t=2
There's more at the link and I can't really argue with most of it. I just hope the changes the Vikes have made this week pay significant dividends and that Ponder and co. step up and start performing much, much better.
The quote above says pretty much what I feel. AD, Harvin and the running game have proven to be nearly unstoppable this season. While I know the running game can't possibly carry this team by itself, I think it HAS to be the center of focus while the passing game goes through its growing pains.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa
BGM wrote:The quote above says pretty much what I feel. AD, Harvin and the running game have proven to be nearly unstoppable this season. While I know the running game can't possibly carry this team by itself, I think it HAS to be the center of focus while the passing game goes through its growing pains.
i think so too and the other line I highlighted indicates why: other than Harvin, opposing teams just aren't worried about the receiving "threats" on the Vikings. They obviously aren't worried about the quarterback either.
Spielman made an effort to address many of the team's needs last offseason but he wasn't able to adequately address all of them and we knew that would be the case. Receiving talent was one of the biggest needs and it remains huge. Carlson. Simpson, Childs and Wright were meant to help in that area and none of them have helped much at all. Unless the Vikes are quarterback hunting in 2013, their top offensive priority has to be acquiring more playmakers for the passing game.
Ahh the sweet taste of vindication: Take away PH/KR and no one is left in to throw against.
Another interest item there: No real answer to AP. Musgrave, read that please and abandon the conventional wisdom of passing when behind. If they are choking up and doubling PH and jamming KR, then make them pay for it.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
Great article and I agree with it, including the shots taken at the team's passing game. The accompanying video of Pelissero and Zulgad is equally hard on the Vikings passing offense, Ponder and the receivers, and it also calls out Musgrave big time.
Plus two other items get confirmed by Pelissero and Zulgad:
1) Jerome Simpson has finally admitted that he's not healthy. That basically means Simpson can't perform as hoped until he gets surgery after the season.
FWIW, Simpson isn't a #1 WR, as many have said, but that never mattered. His job was to stretch the field, which he's good at, and can just as easily be done by a #3 WR. But now he can't do his job efficiently. Too bad the Vikings are so bankrupt at WR talent and offensive coordination imagination from Musgrave that they can't compensate for Simpson's injury.
2) Percy Harvin was yelling at Coach Frazier about the playcalling last week. Harvin has admitted as much to Pelissero and Zulgad. Adding insult to injury, we now hear that Michael Jenkins can block a CB but can't block bigger guys like safeties or linebackers. Amazing. Jenkins is a big guy and yet his size hasn't really helped the Vikings offense much at all.
losperros wrote:Great article and I agree with it, including the shots taken at the team's passing game. The accompanying video of Pelissero and Zulgad is equally hard on the Vikings passing offense, Ponder and the receivers, and it also calls out Musgrave big time.
Plus two other items get confirmed by Pelissero and Zulgad:
1) Jerome Simpson has finally admitted that he's not healthy. That basically means Simpson can't perform as hoped until he gets surgery after the season.
FWIW, Simpson isn't a #1 WR, as many have said, but that never mattered. His job was to stretch the field, which he's good at, and can just as easily be done by a #3 WR. But now he can't do his job efficiently. Too bad the Vikings are so bankrupt at WR talent and offensive coordination imagination from Musgrave that they can't compensate for Simpson's injury.
My hope is that Wright plays on Sunday, has a big game and surprisingly provides the Vikes with another weapon that seriously concerns defenses. It's a slim hope and I don't mean that as a slam against Wright, who definitely has talent.
2) Percy Harvin was yelling at Coach Frazier about the playcalling last week. Harvin has admitted as much to Pelissero and Zulgad. Adding insult to injury, we now hear that Michael Jenkins can block a CB but can't block bigger guys like safeties or linebackers. Amazing. Jenkins is a big guy and yet his size hasn't really helped the Vikings offense much at all.
I can understand why he might be ineffective blocking LBs. That can be tough for any WR but a guy his size should be able to block a safety.
Another story saying exactly the same thing that everyone knows and has been saying for weeks? Wow, where do these beat writers find all this material? Must be a never ending job...
If anything this article illustrates the point on just how bad everyone else in the WR core is outside of PH/KR. Simpson’s injury is interesting in the longer view. He has a 1yr deal and given current performance will likely not command much, if anything, in the FA market. The Vikings will have a luxury of seeing him behind the scenes for a full season, so if they do want to add him to the mix on a more regular basis, he should come at relatively cheap price.
I suspect WR will be the position of focus in this year’s offseason. Adjusting my draft prognosticating now: WR, OG, NT, LB, CB. Impressive that Safety is not on that list. Here is crossing our fingers that Childs can recover from his injury. They really need a guy with his top of body/skill set.
I’m not intending this to give Ponder a pass. I honestly do not see this team abandoning that project until next year unless some sort of BPA or FA miracle occurs this winter. That is not a statement about what I think should happen, it is what I think will happen.
Some more thoughts on Ponder: We are seeing the skittishness, but is it because he cannot play with poise in the pocket or is it because he does not believe anyone will be open if he steps up for another second before bailing? How much of it is the fear of getting mauled? That last point isn’t to say the guy is a wimp, I don’t think he is. I just see his protection as currently making the mauling more of likelihood than not. My guess is these things are all in play with Ponder right now and are contributing to his rough patch. The protection is probably more easily fixable, so who of the WR is going to step up? You would think a player at this position would salivate over this. You are practically guaranteed single coverage.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
Mothman wrote:My hope is that Wright plays on Sunday, has a big game and surprisingly provides the Vikes with another weapon that seriously concerns defenses. It's a slim hope and I don't mean that as a slam against Wright, who definitely has talent.
I know exactly what you're saying, Jim. It's definitely a slim hope.
Heck, even if Wright can exhibit the impressive skills he showed in college in the pro league, there is so much wrong with the Vikings passing game that who knows how much help he can actually be.
Mothman wrote:
I can understand why he might be ineffective blocking LBs. That can be tough for any WR but a guy his size should be able to block a safety.
Good point. These days LBs are big and fast. But I agree a guy Jenkins' size should be able to handle a safety. What irritates me is that for some reason I actually thought Jenkins could be a big help to the Vikings passing game. So far that hasn't been the case.
I don't think the Vikes give up on Ponder yet. They see the same thing everyone else sees. I think this off season there will be a big push for a true #1 receiver. If and when he gets that, then the true judgement on his skills will take place. The Vikes fixed alot of holes this year, true there are many more to fix and WR is the biggest one going into next year.
However I don't think Luck, Manning, Brady et al would have any better games than Ponder at this point with what he has to work with.
sdranger wrote:I don't think the Vikes give up on Ponder yet. They see the same thing everyone else sees. I think this off season there will be a big push for a true #1 receiver. If and when he gets that, then the true judgement on his skills will take place. The Vikes fixed alot of holes this year, true there are many more to fix and WR is the biggest one going into next year.
However I don't think Luck, Manning, Brady et al would have any better games than Ponder at this point with what he has to work with.
According to this article, even Ponder is frustrated with some of the scheming.
Anyway, Ponder is playing poorly. The receivers, aside from Harvin, are not playing well. Jerome Simpson really is hurt, taking away the deep threat. The OL has been spotty with its pass protection. And Musgrave hasn't helped matters with a scheme that isn't utilizing what strengths there are among the skill players. So, yes, a darn good receiver is badly needed and would help. But I think there is a lot of other work to be done with this passing game too.
losperros wrote:
According to this article, even Ponder is frustrated with some of the scheming.
Anyway, Ponder is playing poorly. The receivers, aside from Harvin, are not playing well. Jerome Simpson really is hurt, taking away the deep threat. The OL has been spotty with its pass protection. And Musgrave hasn't helped matters with a scheme that isn't utilizing what strengths there are among the skill players. So, yes, a darn good receiver is badly needed and would help. But I think there is a lot of other work to be done with this passing game too.
Plenty of suck, and not enough Luck?
"My anterior orifice is forever causing me extreme difficulty;
therefore, I shall endeavor to acquire some self-control."
losperros wrote:
According to this article, even Ponder is frustrated with some of the scheming.
Anyway, Ponder is playing poorly. The receivers, aside from Harvin, are not playing well. Jerome Simpson really is hurt, taking away the deep threat. The OL has been spotty with its pass protection. And Musgrave hasn't helped matters with a scheme that isn't utilizing what strengths there are among the skill players. So, yes, a darn good receiver is badly needed and would help. But I think there is a lot of other work to be done with this passing game too.
I agree that a big time WR would be huge, but that isn't likely to happen unless we hit really well in the draft. Even then it will probably take a few years for that guy to develop. However, I do not think they are that far gone. We already have the stud WR in PH. What we need are a couple of #2 and #3 guys who can get open once and a while and take the pressure off of KR/PH. That is good news IMO, those guys are easier to find.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
Eli wrote:Another story saying exactly the same thing that everyone knows and has been saying for weeks? Wow, where do these beat writers find all this material? Must be a never ending job...
I think the problem is that the story hasn't changed much the last few weeks. However, I thought this article was interesting because it provided some insight into how scouts from other NFL teams perceive the Vikes.
sdranger wrote:
However I don't think Luck, Manning, Brady et al would have any better games than Ponder at this point with what he has to work with.
lol, Brady or Manning would have this team at 9-0 right now. Mostly due to the easy schedule but either one of them would throw the ball where only Rudolph can get it, they'll both beat the consistent blitz pressure, and they'll both hit the open WR's because they both know how to read a defense far better than Ponder. Despite how awful our WR's are they do get "open" enough for good QB play to take advantage. Unfortunately "open" for Ponder means beating your guy by 5 steps before he's willing to take a shot.
Seriously though, Tom Brady with Peterson running for 186 yards and 2 td's with 9 guys in the box all day would be the easiest games of his life. Well as long as he got to run his own plays LOL.
