Musgrave could be moving closer to termination in Minnesota

[me4get]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... minnesota/

[Demi]

Good call. Spielman will do anything he can now to try and keep his job, I don't think Musgrave is even an average OC, but Ponder is the single biggest factor holding this offense back. And he was Spielman's boy.

Perfect scapegoat.

[dead_poet]

If you're going to stick with Ponder, the worst thing you can do is shuffle oordinators/schemes. I don't think Musgrave is as horrible as some. But the entire offense aside from Peterson and some decent run blocking is in disarray. That's partially Musgrave's fault and partially execution and talent (or lack thereof). I'm just as frustrated as everyone is with Ponder. But part of me sees the turnaround Josh Freeman has had this year with the addition of Vincent Jackson (Rivers, on the other hand, has struggled without him). It's not out of the realm of possibility that a top draft or free agent acquisition (or two) at the receiver positon coupled with another year and offseason of development and familiarity with the system (by the entire offense) can't produce significant results next season. Of course, that's probably asking a lot. I'm just hesitant that inserting a new coordinator will benefit an offense with execution issues nearly across the board. it's hard to pinpoint the main source of the problem when there are so many variables.

[PurpleJarl]

Good Call. I was done with Musgraves after the first 4 passing plays of last game. A bootleg. A PA Bomb, another bootleg, then finally he stood in the pocket and tried to make a read.

He is actively contributing to our QBs happy feet and I want him gone.

[Cliff]

I don't know if Musgrave is the problem or not but I do know I'm not particularly fond of offensive coaches that get brought in because they "coached a QB to success" when that QB was a top 3 pick. That's what the QB coach is for.

[Mothman]

If you're going to stick with Ponder, the worst thing you can do is shuffle oordinators/schemes. I don't think Musgrave is as horrible as some. But the entire offense aside from Peterson and some decent run blocking is in disarray. That's partially Musgrave's fault and partially execution and talent (or lack thereof). I'm just as frustrated as everyone is with Ponder. But part of me sees the turnaround Josh Freeman has had this year with the addition of Vincent Jackson (Rivers, on the other hand, has struggled without him). It's not out of the realm of possibility that a top draft or free agent acquisition (or two) at the receiver positon coupled with another year and offseason of development and familiarity with the system (by the entire offense) can't produce significant results next season. Of course, that's probably asking a lot. I'm just hesitant that inserting a new coordinator will benefit an offense with execution issues nearly across the board. it's hard to pinpoint the main source of the problem when there are so many variables.

I agree to an extent. I think it's possible to bring a new coordinator in and actually have it benefit a young, developing QB as long as there's not a seismic shift in scheme. That doesn't mean the approach to playcalling couldn't change but a complete shift in scheme could be detrimental.

PFT is clearly speculating anyway and we're just over the halfway point of the season so this sort of talk is premature. The passing game has struggled lately but was working well for a while. Ponder has struggled lately but was effective earlier in the season. Ditto for Musgrave. The Vikes need to let the season play out and at that point it should be evident to the decision-makers whether Musgrave, Ponder, Frazier, etc. should stay or go.

I'm with you 100% on the impact a strong acquisition at receiver could make. I don't think the Vikes current outside receivers could start for many good NFL teams, at least not based on the way they're playing this season

[sdranger]

Musgrave will be gone when Frazier is and I believe he is now on the hot seat. Spielman is now the GM he didn't pick either of these guys. In fact wasn't his first totally controlled draft this years? So I really wouldn't count on him being sold on Ponder either.

[smoothoperator]

sorry but i really cant agree with musgrave being creative. in atlanta he had roddy white and Gonzalez, aka throw the ball up and those guys will get it. he does not realize we need to do unique things with our passing to game to get people open. i watch every other team in the league do it. our wrs are pathetic, but getting them open should not be tough. another thing that really bothers me with musgrave is this, AP will be just rolling on a defense, we get in the redzone, run 3 terrible passing plays and get a FG. he simply just does not get it.

[Mothman]

our wrs are pathetic, but getting them open should not be tough.

I understand and share some of your complaints about Musgrave but how does the above make ANY sense?

[smoothoperator]

because you design plays to get a guy open. if percy is double covered and they are keyed in on rudolph, use that to create routes that will force defenses to get mixed up on coverages and get a guy open. every other team in the league does it. we have weapons and sometimes you have to use them as a decoy.

[mansquatch]

No offense, but I think they’ve been trying to do that. The problem is no one is consistent. The 3rd option was supposed to be Simpson and/or Carlson, both of whom are currently on a trajectory towards busting out. Aroma and Jenkins are being exactly who they are: 4th stringers. The only thing I could see them do is try to get Ellison or Reisner more involved in the passing game, but that is really grabbing at straws. Maybe Carslon comes back from his concussion and finally shows himself worthy of his contract.

Bottom line is I expect FA activity in the WR market or a high draft choice. IMO, FA is where they should go shopping. The draft turnaround on a WR is 2-3 years. I think that is too long for Ponder, but they may get stuck needing a draft. The Vikes could also get lucky and Childs could be a medical miracle and come back next year. They need a guy with his physical tools desperately right now. However, recovery from that injury is a complete shoot the moon deal IMO. Not sure what Jarius Wright is doing, but his non-performance this year isn’t surprising gives his 4th round status.

I was highly supportive of the FA decision to not overpay a WR. However, I’m starting to think that maybe the market was the market and maybe they should have paid Garcon or VJax. Right now we are in a precarious position at WR. Unfortunately FA doesn’t open until next winter, so the only card in the deck is for them to coach somebody up. All things point towards a bumpy ride…

[smoothoperator]

i can respect you disagreeing, but i just dont see it. their is zero creativity or adjustments being made. teams just blitz the house because we feel no need to adjust. you start to adjust to the blitz and they have to adjust defensively. as far as free agent WRs go, we should have shelled out the money for VJ, guy is a beast. we better get someone like bowe, because this is a pretty weak draft for WRs.

[HornedMessiah]

Musgrave will be gone when Frazier is and I believe he is now on the hot seat. Spielman is now the GM he didn't pick either of these guys. In fact wasn't his first totally controlled draft this years? So I really wouldn't count on him being sold on Ponder either.

I think Spielman has always been in control of the draft, of course with some input from coaches. This year was just his first draft as official GM. Make no mistake, Ponder is Spielman's guy. He will get rid of Musgrave, Frazier, and other coaches before he completely gives up on Ponder. A couple more sub-100 yard passing games from Ponder might change his opinion though.

[Mothman]

because you design plays to get a guy open. if percy is double covered and they are keyed in on rudolph, use that to create routes that will force defenses to get mixed up on coverages and get a guy open. every other team in the league does it. we have weapons and sometimes you have to use them as a decoy.

Trust me, they do and sometimes it actually works (!) but even well-designed plays intended to draw coverage away from a particular player by drawing it toward another rarely leave someone wide open. They could certainly try to do more (like flooding zones when they're playing against them) but the bottom line is when a team has "pathetic WRs" it is tough to get them open. Even if they use play action to draw defenses toward Peterson and use Harvin as a decoy, that usually means someone has to beat single coverage and it just doesn't happen often enough.

[VikingLord]

Musgrave = fall guy for the failure of both Spielman and Frazier when they picked Ponder.

They're pulling a Matt Millen... Hopefully the pain in Minnesota doesn't last as long as the pain did in Detroit under Millen.