Percy Harvin

[Mothman]

That doesn't explain his blow up...

I re-played that little scenario on the sidelines where he was yelling at Frazier, trying to read Harvin's lips. I couldn't tell most of what he said but it looked like the last few words might have been "That's bulls---" and (even more emphatically) "A sack!". Since the blow up happened after the third down play in which Peterson missed a blitz pick up and Ponder was sacked, I'm guessing he was angry about the results of the previous two plays (the second down play was the screen pass Ponder threw in front of Harvin that was going nowhere anyway). It was probably frustration with the playcalling, the execution and the missed opportunity all rolled into one. Sometimes you just need to vent! I imagine a lot of us were venting after that drive too. Musgrave's playcalling in the red zone was very questionable on that possession.

[PurpleMustReign]

I re-played that little scenario on the sidelines where he was yelling at Frazier, trying to read Harvin's lips. I couldn't tell most of what he said but it looked like the last few words might have been "That's bulls---" and (even more emphatically) "A sack!". Since the blow up happened after the third down play in which Peterson missed a blitz pick up and Ponder was sacked, I'm guessing he was angry about the results of the previous two plays (the second down play was the screen pass Ponder threw in front of Harvin that was going nowhere anyway). It was probably frustration with the playcalling, the execution and the missed opportunity all rolled into one. Sometimes you just need to vent! I imagine a lot of us were venting after that drive too. Musgrave's playcalling in the red zone was very questionable on that possession.

"That's bullshin"? Just kidding. Well, I have no problem with it, really. Like you said, he is saying what we are all feeling.

[dead_poet]

Souhan: Curiously, public chooses to ignore Harvin's diva act

Thanks for the link. It is curious. But I think Souhan nails it with his two points at the end. Harvin's passion and playing style is easy to root for when we see so many players shy away from contact in a contact sport. It's like a throwback to the hard-hitting days of yore that seem further and further away with every new offense-protecting rule. Seeing someone of his size/stature not only taking on guys bigger than him but initiating the contact is a joy to watch. Perhaps that leads into another point, that his negative antics aren't new when it comes to star receivers (perhaps as a fan culture we're becoming desensitized to it) and, honestly, they're pretty tame in comparison. I also think the team/market he's in is making a difference. I'm pretty confident that if he was on the Cowboys or Jets his actions would be highlighted and more heavily scrutinized.

On a side note, is this true?

Vikings coaches knew that if they didn't get the ball to Anthony Carter early in the game, he'd lose interest.

Unlike today, I mostly "knew" players based on their performance on the field. I don't recall ever knowing this about AC.

[Mothman]

On a side note, is this true?
Unlike today, I mostly "knew" players based on their performance on the field. I don't recall ever knowing this about AC.

I don't know if he lost interest but it was definitely true that when they didn't get him involved early, he often wasn't a factor.

[Demi]

That doesn't explain his blow up...

He blew up when Ponder missed the screen pass to him. He had an opportunity and Ponder rifled it high and outside on that screen 7 yards away from him at the line of scrimmage. For the third time in 7 days. As soon as the ball went sailing by him the fuse was lit. As far as the fans, I think it's apathy as much as anything.

There was talk about Rice not returning because of the question mark at the QB position. Won't take much more of this and we'll lose another good receiver because of it. Heck if it doesn't get addressed even the franchise tag might not be enough to get him back on the field...

[Mothman]

He blew up when Ponder missed the screen pass to him.

He actually blew up after the next play but he looked angry after the missed screen so I that was probably at least one reason for his outburst (as you said, the fuse was lit). You can pretty clearly see him say "Sack" at the end of what he says to Frazier so it seems reasonable to assume, both the second and third down plays set him off.

If I recall correctly, Harvin was reportedly very upset in the Tampa game when Sullivan's low snap to Ponder resulted in a possession-ending play. He's probably just frustrated with the overall lack of execution.

He had an opportunity and Ponder rifled it high and outside on that screen 7 yards away from him at the line of scrimmage.

Ponder's throw was bad but there was no real opportunity on that play. Had the pass been completed it was almost certainly going to be a loss as two unblocked defenders were coming straight at Harvin. Here it is all in it's ugly glory (with the overthrown ball circled in yellow):

[Cliff]

There was talk about Rice not returning because of the question mark at the QB position. Won't take much more of this and we'll lose another good receiver because of it. Heck if it doesn't get addressed even the franchise tag might not be enough to get him back on the field...

So Rice left because of question marks at the QB position and the team he chose with a much better situation at QB was the Seahawks?

Rice walked away because the Vikings weren't willing to pay what he wanted considering his injury history. Harvin will leave too ... if the Vikings won't pay what other teams will.

[losperros]

Souhan: Curiously, public chooses to ignore Harvin's diva act

This is actually a good article by Souhan, who may be doing his best journalistic work this year.

From Souhan:

So why do we give Harvin a break?

Maybe there are two reasons.

1. Minnesotans, unlike, say, Cowboys fans, recognize the upside in the relationship. We've seen Moss pout, and we've seen him perform like one of the 10 greatest receivers in NFL history. We've seen Cris Carter scream at teammates on and from the sideline, and we watched him perform like a Hall of Famer and extend his career with an unsurpassed work ethic. Vikings fans know that if they can survive the moods, they will reap benefits.

2. In the age of concussion awareness and fully documented catastrophic injuries, we know what Harvin is sacrificing. He's a 184-pound hybrid who runs, receives and returns kicks with a competitive fury rarely seen even at the highest levels of sports.

Playing as he does is sure to knock years, or at least quality years, off Harvin's lifespan. His size and style stamp him with an early expiration date.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Harvin being so emotional. We see it a lot from wide receivers. The same passion and eccentricity that is Harvin personally is also Harvin on the field.

[Demi]

So Rice left because of question marks at the QB position and the team he chose with a much better situation at QB was the Seahawks?

Rice walked away because the Vikings weren't willing to pay what he wanted considering his injury history. Harvin will leave too ... if the Vikings won't pay what other teams will.

Oh, I recall how we all laughed. What a fool, he signed with the worst QB situation in the league simply for the money. Hard to laugh anymore. Didn't take long for that to change.

But no, at the time it was part of the discussion, how the QB situation would impact Rice and other receivers. It's going to be hard enough keeping Harvin, much less signing anyone else without paying more than the going rate to get them here.

And while money is the main motivator. I think for a receiver being able to produce and have success is a close second. This QB situation is a mess. And does anyone see it being fixed by the end of next season? If I'm Harvin I see no reason to believe it'll improve. So why resign? I can get the same, or probably more, money elsewhere. And have a chance at some pretty major stats, and wins. Replacement for Welker in New England? There was already talk at the draft of the Patriots wanting him.

Not looking good! Is he going to want to beat himself up for a season under the franchise tag? He's proven more than he has to already. I sure wouldn't want to get killed on a one year deal with all that money on the table. And he's already had issues on and off the field since his early college days. It wouldn't surprise me even a little if he holds out if he is tagged after next year. And I doubt he's going to want to re-sign after this debacle!

[Mothman]

Oh, I recall how we all laughed. What a fool, he signed with the worst QB situation in the league simply for the money. Hard to laugh anymore. Didn't take long for that to change.

But no, at the time it was part of the discussion, how the QB situation would impact Rice and other receivers. It's going to be hard enough keeping Harvin, much less signing anyone else without paying more than the going rate to get them here.

Harvin's not going anywhere unless the Vikes want him too. It's that simple. They hold all the cards and if Ponder continues playing at the level he's played at the last few games, the QB situation will probably change this offseason anyway. All this talk about Harvin leaving because he's unhappy with Ponder is just alarmist speculation, nothing more.

[losperros]

Harvin's not going anywhere unless the Vikes want him too. It's that simple. They hold all the cards and if Ponder continues playing at the level he's played at the last few games, the QB situation will probably change this offseason anyway. All this talk about Harvin leaving because he's unhappy with Ponder is just alarmist speculation, nothing more.

Interesting debate here. Here are my two cents. I can't see any reason for Harvin leaving because of the *present* QB situation. "Present" is the key word.

Okay, so let's say Ponder hangs himself (as Demi put it in another thread) this season. That means the Vikings will go get another QB. They'd be crazy not to. They either take a promising draft pick (and I'm not talking about a reach) or they sign a top QB free agent, should there be one available. That should and I believe would make Harvin and every other skill player happy.

I loved watching Harvin play football as a Florida Gator and I love watching him as a Viking, so I'm probably ridiculously biased about him. Anyway, I'm telling all of you that the Harvin you see now - eccentric, over-emotional, and feisty on field - is nothing new. Despite the tantrums and weird stuff, the bottom line is the guy can really play football at a high level. I think that's reason enough for the Vikings to want to keep him and I believe they will.

[Texas Vike]

Harvin's not going anywhere unless the Vikes want him too. It's that simple. They hold all the cards and if Ponder continues playing at the level he's played at the last few games, the QB situation will probably change this offseason anyway. All this talk about Harvin leaving because he's unhappy with Ponder is just alarmist speculation, nothing more.

I think you mean, "...unless the Vikings want him to." Right? As you have it, you're questioning whether the Vikings also want Percy (assuming others will want him). Usually context makes the difference a moot point, but I'm genuinely uncertain of your meaning here.


And not to pile on, because I think you are one of the top posters on this board, but I think the post upstream where you included the photo of the play in question has some room for debate. I know it looked like Percy would get creamed by two Seahawks immediately after catching the ball, but I feel pretty certain that Percy did not see it that way. I think he believed he could make them miss and make a play and that he did, in fact, get riled up due to Ponder's throw on a play where he believed he could take it to the house. After all, we've seen Percy get out of stickier situations and make several defenders knock one another over as he zips past them all. I'm not saying it was likely, but I suspect Percy felt he had a good shot if only his QB could make a 5 yard pass.

[Eli]

Yeah, the Vikes may go and draft another QB, but then he'll be a rookie in 2013, with zero guarantees that he'll be any better than Ponder, or that he'll have any better chance at being developed properly by being thrown to the wolves. Or maybe they avoid that and he plays behind Ponder for a year or two while the Vikings continue to struggle on offense. It might be different if they had a veteran (preferably under the age of 35) on the roster, but if they want one of those they're going to go out and pay for him.

Any way you slice it, the Vikings QB situation is dire.

[Mothman]

I think you mean, "...unless the Vikings want him to." Right?

That's correct and I also meant for that to be a complete sentence.
II can see why. I apologize for the confusion.

I agree that he probably believed he had a shot but on that play, I think if he had caught the ball he would have been flattened for a loss. It doesn't matter now anyway.

[losperros]

Yeah, the Vikes may go and draft another QB, but then he'll be a rookie in 2013, with zero guarantees that he'll be any better than Ponder, or that he'll have any better chance at being developed properly by being thrown to the wolves. Or maybe they avoid that and he plays behind Ponder for a year or two while the Vikings continue to struggle on offense. It might be different if they had a veteran (preferably under the age of 35) on the roster, but if they want one of those they're going to go out and pay for him.

Any way you slice it, the Vikings QB situation is dire.

I basically agree with everything you're saying here. Yes, the QB situation is dire. It always is dire on every team until they find a franchise QB, and the Vikings will have to do that. If it's not Ponder, then they have to try to find one in 2013, regardless if it means he's a rookie next year with zero guarantees or a hardened NFL veteran QB or whatever.