Postgame thoughts

[Mothman]

I guess most has been said, but ...

The coaching/playcalling at the end of the first half was awful. Unacceptable. I am still not sold on Frazier (though maybe it's more Musgrave?).

Musgrave would have been the one calling those plays.

Just think if we had lost to the Skins last year, we could have RG3.

So it goes... Instead, we have a shiny new left tackle, which isn't a bad consolation prize.

[losperros]

Enough with the excuses for Ponder. It's no longer even making sense to the eternal optimists any more.

Sounds good, Eli, as long as it's also enough with excuses for WRs that can't and don't get open.

Again, Ponder shouldn't get critically overlooked, but seriously now, there are other very noticeable gaps in the passing game that deserve some heat too.

[losperros]

And Kalil was badly needed, not just for the passing game but for the run as well. If the OL sucks, the entire offense is in peril.

[mansquatch]

And Kalil was badly needed, not just for the passing game but for the run as well. If the OL sucks, the entire offense is in peril.

Exactly, our 2012 draft is on pace to be one of our best ever. Look at the vast improvement achieved by adding Kalil and Smith to their respective position groups. RG3 is awesome, but I'm not upset about this last draft at all.

[Just Me]

Just think if we had lost to the Skins last year, we could have RG3.

But we wouldn't have Kalil and likely wouldn't have Smith either. Remember how bad our O-line was playing before we got Kalil? Remember how badly our secondary played before Smith? If I'm generous and assume RG3 is good enough to get his passes off before he's eating turf from rushing D-linemen (despite the fact that a HOF QB (Favre) couldn't be successful under those conditions), I still have reservations about this season. Instead of 5-2 with a poor passing game, we might well be putting up 30-35 points per game. The trouble is, we might be giving up the same amount of points on defense and be a 3-4 team about now...

[Mothman]

Now that I've been able to watch the whole game, I have to say that the Vikings pass protection was abysmal. Ponder had a bad game but in terms of pass protection, the blockers were every bit as bad as the QB in this game and no small factor in the almost complete absence of an effective passing game in the second half. They have to be better.

[PurpleKoolaid]

My brother went to this game (just found out, he sold the most amount of trucks in Spet or something) and said not only were the fly routes open, but the midle was wide open quite a few times. He didnt know which receivers were there though, But it only makes sense that people are open when the object of the D is to stop AD and PH. So much for the WRs being the problem and not Ponder. Ponder makes 1 fast read, if it isnt there, happy feet start and i start to sweat.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

As a long time board member who really loves this board could I ask everyone to stop whining about Ponder's performance week in and week out? I mean, for crying out loud, I try to read this board and everyday I see the same thing: Ponder sucks and we need a new QB.

Now am I not trying to tell anyone they cannot have their own opinion, far from it actually. I am also not EXCUSING Ponder's performances the past three games. But FFS, some people on here will repeatedly post the same thing on Ponder over and over and over. I get it, if someone thinks Ponder sucks, that is OK. However, there is no NEED to post numerous times in the game thread, or anywhere else for that matter, saying the same thing only in different characters.

I have tried to foe people and it works when I log in. However, most of the time, I read the board without signing in and the foe option does not apply. It is typically more convenient for me to not sign in then take the time to sign in just to not be able to see certain people post. I also feel that I don't need to post an opinion no one cares about.

We are 5-2, but hell, some of the stuff I read on here seems to imply that we are really somewhere around 2-5 or worse. I just don't understand why there is so much complaining when we are winning. I know it is not everyone, and it is not fair to generalize. However, I would not be taking the time to post this if I did not feel something was amiss on this board.

Call me soft, call me a bad fan, call me hypocritical, I don't care.

With that, I take my leave for awhile. I will NOT be missed.

Skol Vikings.

[losperros]

Now that I've been able to watch the whole game, I have to say that the Vikings pass protection was abysmal. Ponder had a bad game but in terms of pass protection, the blockers were every bit as bad as the QB in this game and no small factor in the almost complete absence of an effective passing game in the second half. They have to be better.

I agree one hundred percent. The Vikings passing game sucked against Arizona. And there was a lot more sucking that happened than just Ponder's bad job, with the OL being one of the chief culprits. Why is this being overlooked by some?

[VikingLord]

Sounds good, Eli, as long as it's also enough with excuses for WRs that can't and don't get open.

Again, Ponder shouldn't get critically overlooked, but seriously now, there are other very noticeable gaps in the passing game that deserve some heat too.

But when we're talking about WR's, we're talking about guys like Harvin and Rudolph. Those guys aren't open?

And on the 2 INT's the guy Ponder was presumably trying to throw it to was wide open both times. It's not like Ponder was trying to squeeze it into a tight window (come to think of it, I've never seen Ponder squeeze in a tight throw) - they were just both horribly inaccurate passes thrown on the run and either jumping or backpedaling.

I am really struggling with the play where Ponder didn't realize the play clock was winding down and Frazier had to call the TO. Then they show Ponder over near Frazier and he's like "Oh, didn't see that". How can a guy play at QB in the pros and not have a clock check automatically pre-snap? It's such a basic, fundamental thing for a player at that position at that level. Heck, *I* always check the play clock pre-snap and I'm not playing. So basic, and therefore so alarming that our supposedly cerebral QB doesn't have the wits to do it.

[losperros]

My brother went to this game (just found out, he sold the most amount of trucks in Spet or something) and said not only were the fly routes open, but the midle was wide open quite a few times. He didnt know which receivers were there though, But it only makes sense that people are open when the object of the D is to stop AD and PH. So much for the WRs being the problem and not Ponder. Ponder makes 1 fast read, if it isnt there, happy feet start and i start to sweat.

Nice try but no cigar. No disrespect to your brother but why is it that the guys from Access Vikings (who have been at every game) aren't impressed with the receivers? These receivers don't get open often enough, don't help their QB when he's in trouble, and they're not the best group of route runners either. That takes no heat off of Ponder but there's little doubt that this roster of WRs (aside from Harvin, who is a stud) shoulders some responsibility for the pitiful passing game. The same goes for the OL's inability to pass block, which was glaringly obvious against Arizona.

[Mothman]

I agree one hundred percent. The Vikings passing game sucked against Arizona. And there was a lot more sucking that happened than just Ponder's bad job, with the OL being one of the chief culprits. Why is this being overlooked by some?

I have no idea. Maybe it's a by-product of the level of focus and importance the media places on QBs. Not a week goes by where I don't hear some sports reporter or broadcaster refer to a matchup between two teams as if it's a game between two QBs. We no longer get Broncos vs. Patriots, we get Brady vs. Manning or Cutler vs. Rodgers or... well, you get the idea.

The focus on Ponder has reached a pont where I'm actually surprised at times by what doesn't get mentioned, or at least what gets moved to the back burner in post-game discussion. For example, despite costly turnovers that were a factor in last week's loss to the Redskins, I was a little stunned that so much of the post game talk focused on Ponder when I came away from the game far more upset by what I considered a poor defensive performance.

After watching this week's game, I'm amazed there hasn't been more discussion of the poor pass protection, especially because it was clearly a huge factor in the game (and in Ponder's performance). Penalties were a big factor too and there hasn't been much discussion of them either.

[losperros]

But when we're talking about WR's, we're talking about guys like Harvin and Rudolph. Those guys aren't open?

You honestly believe that Ponder and Rudolph are the only two receivers on the team? Or they are the only two receivers the Vikings need? Too transparent, Edward. You know better than that.

And yes, I'm now officially announcing to the world that the Vikings need to seriously upgrade their receiving corps. There, I said it. They may need to upgrade at QB after the season and maybe need more help at OL too. But I really hope they bring in a couple WRs from the draft and/or free agency as well.

And on the 2 INT's the guy Ponder was presumably trying to throw it to was wide open both times. It's not like Ponder was trying to squeeze it into a tight window (come to think of it, I've never seen Ponder squeeze in a tight throw) - they were just both horribly inaccurate passes thrown on the run and either jumping or backpedaling.

I am really struggling with the play where Ponder didn't realize the play clock was winding down and Frazier had to call the TO. Then they show Ponder over near Frazier and he's like "Oh, didn't see that". How can a guy play at QB in the pros and not have a clock check automatically pre-snap? It's such a basic, fundamental thing for a player at that position at that level. Heck, *I* always check the play clock pre-snap and I'm not playing. So basic, and therefore so alarming that our supposedly cerebral QB doesn't have the wits to do it.

Edward, please understand that in no way am I denying any of Ponder's shortcomings. I'm just saying that the entire passing game is one big mess on this team. If anyone wants to believe differently, then so be it. But this offense won't be throwing the ball better until *everyone* is doing their job right.

[Mothman]

But when we're talking about WR's, we're talking about guys like Harvin and Rudolph. Those guys aren't open?

Sure, but they don't get open every time.

And on the 2 INT's the guy Ponder was presumably trying to throw it to was wide open both times. It's not like Ponder was trying to squeeze it into a tight window (come to think of it, I've never seen Ponder squeeze in a tight throw)...

Sure you have. He just threw one to Rudolph in the back of the end zone a few weeks ago.

I am really struggling with the play where Ponder didn't realize the play clock was winding down and Frazier had to call the TO. Then they show Ponder over near Frazier and he's like "Oh, didn't see that". How can a guy play at QB in the pros and not have a clock check automatically pre-snap? It's such a basic, fundamental thing for a player at that position at that level.

... and yet even offenses run by Super Bowl-winning QBs end up with delay of game penalties once in a while. If I remember correctly, the Broncos had one called against them earlier this year in a red zone situation and they probably have the most game-aware QB in the sport. Occasionally, mistakes like that are going to happen. They shouldn't but they do, even to the best.

It seems like the microscope just keeps zooming in on Ponder's flaws and mistakes. Are people paying attention to the plays he makes and executes well or are they just obsessing over every little thing that might signal he's not the The Answer at QB? Even in yesterday's game, as bad as his performance looked at times, he did some things well too. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or flippant here. It's just that I repeatedly see comments that make me wonder if people fail to see or just forget the good plays the Vikings young QB has made.

[VikingLord]

I have no idea. Maybe it's a by-product of the level of focus and importance the media places on QBs. Not a week goes by where I don't hear some sports reporter or broadcaster refer to a matchup between two teams as if it's a game between two QBs. We no longer get Broncos vs. Patriots, we get Brady vs. Manning or Cutler vs. Rodgers or... well, you get the idea.

The focus on Ponder has reached a pont where I'm actually surprised at times by what doesn't get mentioned, or at least what gets moved to the back burner in post-game discussion. For example, despite costly turnovers that were a factor in last week's loss to the Redskins, I was a little stunned that so much of the post game talk focused on Ponder when I came away from the game far more upset by what I considered a poor defensive performance.

After watching this week's game, I'm amazed there hasn't been more discussion of the poor pass protection, especially because it was clearly a huge factor in the game (and in Ponder's performance). Penalties were a big factor too and there hasn't been much discussion of them either.

Where do you draw the line, though? Were those other units so bad it explains away half of Ponder's 4-yard masterpiece? The 2 INT's came in the first half on plays where Ponder left the pocket and missed wide-open receivers on the run. So who screwed up there? The wide open receiver who supposedly isn't getting open and helping out his QB?

Someone else made the point that Ponder "imagines" pressure, and I agree. It's getting almost comical watching him escape it as well. He rarely steps up inside the bubble when he feels edge pressure, sets and fires with his feet firmly beneath him and his momentum adding to the force of his release. He tucks it and darts outside, and many times is forced to go backwards at that point to escape the end on the side he's running towards. So starts what I think is become Ponder's signature play - the Sideways Backpedal Inaccurate Floater to the Flat (SBIFF from now on).

And the really funny part is, I actually think defenses are leaving his valve receiver open on that side because the film doesn't lie - in that situation, Ponder's passes are likely to be high and soft, meaning you want him to try to throw it while you maintain a spot behind and left of his target (assuming he's rolling right). If I was a defensive coordinator, I'd do my best not to sack Ponder, but to flush him into his famous SBIFF and look for a pick.

Until I see Ponder react to pressure by stepping *up* into the pocket and firing down the field with confidence, I think he deserves all the contempt he's getting. This sideways, falling back and then trying to make a play has got to stop or he's got to go. I suppose Musgrave and Co. could tell him to just run it out of bounds, or, better yet, throw it out instead of launching an SBIFF, but the core problem is the situation he repeatedly finds himself in by escaping "pressure".

Ponder is going to get the rest of this season to prove he merits a starting spot, but if I'm Spielman I'm already thinking about heavily scouting QB's for next year's draft. Blame the O-line, blame the receivers, blame the coordinator, that's fine. If Ponder doesn't start showing us that supposedly good mind he has by demonstrating he can now adjust and fix what is wrong the Vikings will most certainly be looking for another QB next year.