Ponder, Newton and Dalton

[PurpleKoolaid]

Which is why the Vikings need to acquire a serious deep threat...

That tends to help the deep passing game.

Trade deadline is soon. You think the Vikes will get us a WR, a real deep threat? At some Ponder Ponder is going to have to throw more then 5 yards. And Devin isnt cutting it. PH can but hes already doing so much.

[Mothman]

Trade deadline is soon. You think the Vikes will get us a WR, a real deep threat? At some Ponder Ponder is going to have to throw more then 5 yards.

I doubt they'll make a trade, although it's possible. I suspect they'll stick with their philosophy of building through the draft and trying to develop a roster from within and they'll address WR again in the offseason.

What about Dalton? I'll be pretty surprised if he isn't still an NFL starter in 5 years.

[J. Kapp 11]

Newton arguably had the best NFL rookie season (statistically and record-wise) ever. Love him or hate him, what he did was pretty special especially when you consider the circumstances with the lockout last year.

True.

So why is he so bad this year? This year, he had OTAs. He had an off-season. He had training camp.

The O.P. was talking about year-to-year improvement. As solid a case as you made for Newton's spectacular rookie campaign, you can't come close to making the argument that Cam Newton is improved this year. Maybe he had nowhere to go but down after such a phenomenal statistical rookie season. Maybe it's simply a sophomore jinx. But the bottom line is that he's been abysmal this season. Not only is he down statistically, but his leadership has been called into serious question by every credible analyst in the business.

I'm pretty happy with the progress Ponder is making. Will he ever be in Newton's class as an athlete? No. Will he be a better NFL quarterback? He may already be.

[losperros]

This is a general comment and not just directed at any one individual:

The Vikings favor shorter passes but they are running 15-25 yard routes and connecting on them in every game. They've thrown deeper passes than that too. I apologize for stating the obvious but it just seems like a lot of comments in this ongoing, season-long discussion/obsession about the distance Ponder's passes are traveling often ends up being phrased as if the Vikings make no attempt to throw beyond the 5-10 yard mark. However, they've been doing it all year and having some success with it.

I'm not sure why this has become such an issue with fans and reporters. I know the long pass is one of the more exciting plays in football but for whatever reason, the Vikings don't feel inclined to throw a lot of them right now. It may be due to a lack of confidence in their receivers as deep threats, it may be due to a desire to control the clock and rest their defense, it might be because they favor high percentage plays that reduce the risk of turnovers and it might even be due to a lack of confidence in Ponder's ability to throw deep. Maybe it's a combination of all of the above and maybe not. Perhaps there are other factors too. Their efforts to add deep threats and new WR talent this offseason (Simpson, Childs and Wright) have resulted in 3 strikes so far so I suspect that has a lot do with it. However, the bottom line is the offense has moved the ball well with the strategy they're using. The team is winning and the offense is in the top half of the league in scoring, despite leaving some potential points on the board by settling for FGs instead of TDs. What they're doing strategically is working and they're doing it with a roster that I suspect we can all agree is incomplete. It's natural to want the team to be an offensive powerhouse and to want to see the kind of big, splashy, downfield pass plays we saw when Culpepper was throwing to Moss but that's not what the team is built to do right now (or for some reason, it's not what they want to do right now) and what they are doing is working pretty well. Instead of fretting over what the team is missing, maybe we should be happier about what they're able to do despite missing some pieces that would make them even better.

It's just a thought...

Well put, Jim. As you pointed out, this roster is incomplete. Personally, I don't see a championship team with this roster. Not yet, anyway. That's why the team is in "rebuilding" mode.

I have my own theories regarding why the Vikings coaching staff hasn't tried throwing deep more often but all the ones you pointed out are certainly possible. And you could be right in thinking that there could be multiple reasons. I'm kind of hoping that's not the case because I don't want the Vikings to have that many problems. Anyway, my only two gripes with the passing game right now is: 1) Simpson is hurting (which is bad luck and not anyone's fault) and 2) I'd like to see Wright play. And, really, who knows? Playing Wright and maybe even a *healthy* Simpson might not do that much.

I believe the coaching staff is doing a pretty fair job at covering some of the weaknesses on this team. In fact, I'm not sure they can approach the games much differently if they want to keep on winning. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know. And none of what I'm saying is any attempt to be an apologist for the coaching staff either. I'm just saying I think this team has a ways to go before it's championship ready.

[Just Me]

True.

So why is he so bad this year? This year, he had OTAs. He had an off-season. He had training camp.

The O.P. was talking about year-to-year improvement. As solid a case as you made for Newton's spectacular rookie campaign, you can't come close to making the argument that Cam Newton is improved this year. Maybe he had nowhere to go but down after such a phenomenal statistical rookie season. Maybe it's simply a sophomore jinx. But the bottom line is that he's been abysmal this season. Not only is he down statistically, but his leadership has been called into serious question by every credible analyst in the business.

I'm pretty happy with the progress Ponder is making. Will he ever be in Newton's class as an athlete? No. Will he be a better NFL quarterback? He may already be.

Good post, Joe. I agree. Ponder may not ever be that Dan Marino or John Elway or <Pick your favorite "gunslinger" and insert here>. If, however, he continues to improve year after year, he will not only be "servicable" he will be pretty darn good. That development takes time. As long as Ponder continues to improve, I'm not sure what else we can ask for... (Super Bowl MVP comes to mind, but I think that is setting the sights a little high at this point in his development )

[Pepper2Moss]

If he gets anything close to Rich Gannon or Drew Brees, I'll be happy. His progression from year 1 to year 2 is impressive, and hopefully he becomes better with the deep ball as the Vikes surround him with better vertical threats. (although I see no reason why Percy can't be targeted down field a few times a game)

[Mothman]

Well put, Jim. As you pointed out, this roster is incomplete. Personally, I don't see a championship team with this roster. Not yet, anyway. That's why the team is in "rebuilding" mode.

I agree. We've seen some welcome improvement early this season but the team still needs work.

I have my own theories regarding why the Vikings coaching staff hasn't tried throwing deep more often but all the ones you pointed out are certainly possible. And you could be right in thinking that there could be multiple reasons. I'm kind of hoping that's not the case because I don't want the Vikings to have that many problems.

I know what you mean but I have a feeling there are multiple reasons. I'm not sure what your theories are but my best guess is that it's a combination of pass protection, receiving personnel and preferred strategy (ie: high percentage plays that reduce the likelihood of turnovers for a team that doesn't seem to have much margin for error). That my be wildly off target but that's my theory. I get the feeling they lack confidence in the offense's ability to execute deep passing plays efficiently, which may mean they don't like what they're seeing in practice when it comes to the deep passing game.

Anyway, my only two gripes with the passing game right now is: 1) Simpson is hurting (which is bad luck and not anyone's fault) and 2) I'd like to see Wright play. And, really, who knows? Playing Wright and maybe even a *healthy* Simpson might not do that much.

It might not but I'd definitely like to see both play. It sounds like we might see Simpson again this week. Who knows what's going on with Wright?

[losperros]

I know what you mean but I have a feeling there are multiple reasons. I'm not sure what your theories are but my best guess is that it's a combination of pass protection, receiving personnel and preferred strategy (ie: high percentage plays that reduce the likelihood of turnovers for a team that doesn't seem to have much margin for error). That my be wildly off target but that's my theory. I get the feeling they lack confidence in the offense's ability to execute deep passing plays efficiently, which may mean they don't like what they're seeing in practice when it comes to the deep passing game.

Oh, I definitely think there are multiple reasons. I guess I'm saying that the present WR personnel creates or escalates a lot of those reasons. For example, coaching strategy for high percentage passes is a reason, yes, but why are they doing that? I don't buy that it's absolutely only because of an overly conservative offensive philosophy. I believe that a large part of the high percentage passing comes from the coaches knowing that Ponder and this current set of receivers are not Culpepper to Carter or Moss (as you pointed out before). I mean, can you imagine if they decided to air it out like that with this roster?

It might not but I'd definitely like to see both play. It sounds like we might see Simpson again this week. Who knows what's going on with Wright?

Has there been any word on how Frazier felt Simpson looked at Wednesday's practice? Apparently, Frazier was going to work Simpson hard to see if he could handle it or not.

[Mothman]

Oh, I definitely think there are multiple reasons. I guess I'm saying that the present WR personnel creates or escalates a lot of those reasons. For example, coaching strategy for high percentage passes is a reason, yes, but why are they doing that? I don't buy that it's absolutely only because of an overly conservative offensive philosophy. I believe that a large part of the high percentage passing comes from the coaches knowing that Ponder and this current set of receivers are not Culpepper to Carter or Moss (as you pointed out before). I mean, can you imagine if they decided to air it out like that with this roster?

I don't think it would go well and I completely agree with what you wrote above.

Has there been any word on how Frazier felt Simpson looked at Wednesday's practice?

Tom Pelissero just posted something about that:

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Jero ... week101912

The Minnesota Vikings' starting split end was a full participant in practice for the third consecutive day on Friday and was listed as probable (virtual certainty of playing) for Sunday's game against Arizona.

"Barring any unforeseen circumstance, he should be ready to go on Sunday," Vikings coach Leslie Frazier said, adding that Simpson will start. "He's had a good week."

[Infinity]

Tom Pelissero just posted something about that:

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Jero ... week101912

That's good. I was worried it was going to be something bad that would make him unable to play. We're going to need him to keep up with fitz's performance.

[Mothman]

I didn't think this was worth a new thread but it's worth reading:

Jim Souhan: Christian Ponder seeing things more clearly now

[Rus]

I'm definitely seeing a real trend in all of Ponder's interceptions this year. Someone watched a lot of those first few games and picked something up because every time, it seems like there's a very focused pass rush attempt and there are about 3-4 defensive backs right where the play was supposed to go.

However, it could have just been a few coaches realizing Ponder doesn't throw across his body well, nor tries running it all that often, and has him blanketed when he rolls out either way. In any case, it's something that is definitely correctable, whether he holds onto the ball and takes it down with him when he sees that mess, or whether he scrambles out of bounds.

The Vikings have had other quarterbacks that even with good pass protection, would throw the ball right into an opponents hands. THAT is hard to correct.

[Cliff]

Ponder got lucky in a few cases early this season and his luck ran out. He could easily have 3-4more INTs. He is still making young guy mistakes. Holding the ball too long. not throwing it away and forcing throws instead. He has still shown good growth. Had a bad game against a good defense. Hopefully he learns from this game.

He will definitely need to play better if this team has playoff hopes this season. Really nice first drive though.

[Juice]

Dalton vs. Steelers tonight: 14/28 105 yards, 3.8 YPA, 1 TD, 1 INT. Do you think if Bengals fans are calling for Gradkowski yet?

Edit: And yes, I'm aware Ponder's stats were worse.

[GoldenBear91]

I like what Ponder is showing so far in the season. Sports fans like to compare players against players, "who is better?", but the onlly thing that matters is this question...is Ponder capable of leading an offense that can win a superbowl. I think he can, maybe not this year but he is going in that direction.