Check Down Charlie

[Reignman]

That is actually a good point. However, Frazier is a conservative minded defensive coach and there is a mathematical possibility of getting a wildcard shot and Frazier is not going to "unleash" Ponder to throw away games. So, get used to seeing Tjoke offense 2.0 to try to hide the deficiencies.
I mean, hell, we even got a jump pass today from Ponder. Is he trying to remind us of Tjack.

I see what you're getting at, but if Frazier has been thinking playoffs at all, then we should have seen Webb in relief in some of these sub 100 games by Ponder. I'm in the camp that believes we beat the Packers last week if Webb had come in mid way through the 3rd quarter. Washington, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Chicago, Green Bay ... all winnable games had we not been so abysmal from the QB position. The fact that we haven't yanked Ponder in any of these games with the playoffs on the line tells me the playoffs aren't even on the radar with those in charge. And if it is, they've been very irresponsible with the chances we've had.

[yezzir]

FRAZIER HAS NO SAY IN WHO PLAYS QB THIS YEAR. Like it or not, it is Ponder all the way.

[Delaqure]

Ponder did OK today. He made some good throws. He also performed a Ponder with the interception. His yardage doesn't bother me to much as he only threw 11 passes. Let's see 91 yards divided by 7 is 13 yrds per completion. Not bad! However he still really didn't do anything to prove he's the QB of the future. He needed to put more points on the board and the coaches seemed reluctant to let him throw on those later drives which to me speaks volumes as to their trust in him.

[Dark]

Ponder did OK today. He made some good throws. He also performed a Ponder with the interception. His yardage doesn't bother me to much as he only threw 11 passes. Let's see 91 yards divided by 7 is 13 yrds per completion. Not bad! However he still really didn't do anything to prove he's the QB of the future. He needed to put more points on the board and the coaches seemed reluctant to let him throw on those later drives which to me speaks volumes as to their trust in him.

Correction. He completed 11 and attempted 17. So it is actually about 8.3 yards per completion.

[Reignman]

Ponder did OK today. He made some good throws. He also performed a Ponder with the interception. His yardage doesn't bother me to much as he only threw 11 passes. Let's see 91 yards divided by 7 is 13 yrds per completion. Not bad! However he still really didn't do anything to prove he's the QB of the future. He needed to put more points on the board and the coaches seemed reluctant to let him throw on those later drives which to me speaks volumes as to their trust in him.

Where'd you get the 7? Is that that republican math I've been hearing about lol? 91/11 completions is an average of 8.27. 8.27 would be a pretty good average per attempt for most QB, but it's Ponders average per completion for 1 game. We can't forget that incompletions are essentially 0 yards and that's why averages go by attempts instead of completions.

[Mothman]

Where'd you get the 7? Is that that republican math I've been hearing about lol? 91/11 completions is an average of 8.27. 8.27 would be a pretty good average per attempt for most QB...

It would be better than pretty good. it would be close to league-leading for a starting QB this year.

[Rus]

What was even up with this thread?

It's pretty clear that a lot of the Vikings receivers had trouble running routes, had timing issues, and couldn't get open regularly this season.

Everyone likes heaping all the blame on Ponder, because it's the easiest thing in the world to blame one guy. After all, it's not like the Vikings will magically gain the services of Aaron Rodgers for a game to prove whether or not these receivers in fact DO suck. The only sure thing on the Vikings roster was Harvin. If the Bengals really thought highly of Simpson, they might have tried to work out his situation and keep him around. Jenkins was also jettisoned because he just wasn't that good. Aromashodu...same deal. You can look up and down that corps and it's full of guys that other teams didn't even really try that hard to keep around as backups, and were fringe starters when they did start. It's not like these guys were harvested off teams with a plentiful bounty of really good wide receivers and were pushed out only because the team didn't have the roster spot. When they were free agents, they weren't even the best free agents around. When they were signed, it only really made news in Minnesota.

Even early in the season, Ponder's best games came when Percy Harvin was on the field, and Harvin was putting up career numbers before he began playing hurt. Harvin was actually putting up numbers better than he had when Farve was at quarterback (partially because the amount of faith Ponder seemed to have in his other receivers was nil during the first few games and partially because Farve also had Sidney Rice...which is more his type of downfield threat receiver).

One other thing...every member of this discussion board knew full well when Ponder was drafted that he wasn't a guy whose bread and butter was chucking the ball downfield. His game is best served when he's throwing short, high completion percentage passes. That type of quarterback can do pretty well in the league...but they need two real good receivers to succeed. You can't get by with one and some backups because opposing defenses will blanket that guy. Ponder's game really doesn't even call for a legit downfield threat...he needs guys who can get solid YAC, have sure hands, and run clean routes. That's the type of receiver that would make the passing game work. That guy was Percy Harvin, and if you noticed, Ponder's numbers really started going down the tubes around the time Harvin originally got hurt and began playing through it.

The type of offense that Ponder would best fit into would probably take a lot of wear off AD's tires, but it also wouldn't exactly open up lanes for longer rushes. So it's a little bit give or take. That kind of offense seems to work better with a power rusher who can punch through for a few yards when needed, which the Vikings do have in their back pocket. Right now, AD has plenty of room to run because the formula for killing the Vikings is to play back and wait for Ponder to throw a pick. Just let AD run all he can, if your offense can put up 250 yards or so, there's a good chance that will be more than what AD can put up + whatever Ponder can manage with short passes.

I don't quite get what the obsession is with making Ponder throw deep balls. He's always been more efficient when he HASN'T tried to throw deep and just took what the defense gave him. Maybe a lot of Viking fans have nostalgia for the early 00's or something. Ponder has never been that type of quarterback, nor did any scout that evaluated him think he was that type of quarterback. People seem to think that because he can buy time with his feet that he should be able to chuck the deep ball. Just because you can move around doesn't mean you automatically have an arm cannon.

[hibbingviking]

Vikings might be 10-3 right now with a good qb. Adrian peterson is a freak of nature. Ponder is sh!t !!!

[soflavike]

What was even up with this thread?

It's pretty clear that a lot of the Vikings receivers had trouble running routes, had timing issues, and couldn't get open regularly this season.

Everyone likes heaping all the blame on Ponder, because it's the easiest thing in the world to blame one guy. After all, it's not like the Vikings will magically gain the services of Aaron Rodgers for a game to prove whether or not these receivers in fact DO suck. The only sure thing on the Vikings roster was Harvin. If the Bengals really thought highly of Simpson, they might have tried to work out his situation and keep him around. Jenkins was also jettisoned because he just wasn't that good. Aromashodu...same deal. You can look up and down that corps and it's full of guys that other teams didn't even really try that hard to keep around as backups, and were fringe starters when they did start. It's not like these guys were harvested off teams with a plentiful bounty of really good wide receivers and were pushed out only because the team didn't have the roster spot. When they were free agents, they weren't even the best free agents around. When they were signed, it only really made news in Minnesota.

Even early in the season, Ponder's best games came when Percy Harvin was on the field, and Harvin was putting up career numbers before he began playing hurt. Harvin was actually putting up numbers better than he had when Farve was at quarterback (partially because the amount of faith Ponder seemed to have in his other receivers was nil during the first few games and partially because Farve also had Sidney Rice...which is more his type of downfield threat receiver).

One other thing...every member of this discussion board knew full well when Ponder was drafted that he wasn't a guy whose bread and butter was chucking the ball downfield. His game is best served when he's throwing short, high completion percentage passes. That type of quarterback can do pretty well in the league...but they need two real good receivers to succeed. You can't get by with one and some backups because opposing defenses will blanket that guy. Ponder's game really doesn't even call for a legit downfield threat...he needs guys who can get solid YAC, have sure hands, and run clean routes. That's the type of receiver that would make the passing game work. That guy was Percy Harvin, and if you noticed, Ponder's numbers really started going down the tubes around the time Harvin originally got hurt and began playing through it.

The type of offense that Ponder would best fit into would probably take a lot of wear off AD's tires, but it also wouldn't exactly open up lanes for longer rushes. So it's a little bit give or take. That kind of offense seems to work better with a power rusher who can punch through for a few yards when needed, which the Vikings do have in their back pocket. Right now, AD has plenty of room to run because the formula for killing the Vikings is to play back and wait for Ponder to throw a pick. Just let AD run all he can, if your offense can put up 250 yards or so, there's a good chance that will be more than what AD can put up + whatever Ponder can manage with short passes.

I don't quite get what the obsession is with making Ponder throw deep balls. He's always been more efficient when he HASN'T tried to throw deep and just took what the defense gave him. Maybe a lot of Viking fans have nostalgia for the early 00's or something. Ponder has never been that type of quarterback, nor did any scout that evaluated him think he was that type of quarterback. People seem to think that because he can buy time with his feet that he should be able to chuck the deep ball. Just because you can move around doesn't mean you automatically have an arm cannon.

All I read is excuses for Ponder. Face it: he stinks.

[Dark]

With a Quarterback like ponder, you need to make the whole rest of the team better to make him better. Whereas if you have a great quarterback, you make the team as a whole better. We should just use our money on a good qb and the whole team will improve. Also, if we can, a couple good wr's would definitely help too.

[Juice]

With a Quarterback like ponder, you need to make the whole rest of the team better to make him better. Whereas if you have a great quarterback, you make the team as a whole better. We should just use our money on a good qb and the whole team will improve. Also, if we can, a couple good wr's would definitely help too.

Same can be said about Alex Smith. Yet, people want us to bring him in this off-season.

[Delaqure]

Correction. He completed 11 and attempted 17. So it is actually about 8.3 yards per completion.

Oops looking at the wrong stats

[Delaqure]

Same can be said about Alex Smith. Yet, people want us to bring him in this off-season.

I'm not sold on Smith either. Although he did get the niners to the championship game. And he was doing fine this year as well. However my concern with Smith is that our receivers suck so bad that I don't think he is the type of qb that would make them better. I think he would be better than Ponder right now but unless we got him some receiver help I don't think he's a franchise qb either.

[Dark]

I'm not sold on Smith either. Although he did get the niners to the championship game. And he was doing fine this year as well. However my concern with Smith is that our receivers suck so bad that I don't think he is the type of qb that would make them better. I think he would be better than Ponder right now but unless we got him some receiver help I don't think he's a franchise qb either.

Thats why I said a couple good wr's would help. We just need someone different than Ponder in, and I think Smith is the best qb available right now. If you can think of any other decent qb's that are going to be free agents, let me know.

[VikingLord]

Thats why I said a couple good wr's would help. We just need someone different than Ponder in, and I think Smith is the best qb available right now. If you can think of any other decent qb's that are going to be free agents, let me know.

I think Smith would make a decent veteran option, but any vet who can just play average at QB should be able to take advantage of the tremendous opportunity a guy like AD presents. When NFL defenses are literally forced to stack 8 guys in the box any time AD is back there and AD still goes off for 150+ on a regular basis, a merely competent NFL QB should be able to find some easy throws down the field.