Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

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John_Viveiros
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by John_Viveiros »

Cliff wrote:I dont think the offense played poorly. They spent a lot of time running clock starting early in the 3rd ... Which i wasnt a fan of but it worked so who am I to complain?

The offense was in a position to just not make mistakes which they did.
That's the way I felt about it. We moved the chains when we needed to, but most of the time, we didn't need to. So we moved the clock. I thought the issue was playcalling, more than execution. We had the lead the whole game, so they played conservative.

And what did that stupid conservative play calling get us. A stupid win. No, it wasn't pretty to watch our offense (other than Peterson). But they did take a lot of time off the clock late.

Although not quite as fun, this reminded me of a Vikes/Dallas Thanksgiving day game a dozen or so years ago. The Vikes took the lead, and then the offense was quiet, until Dallas got within 10 points or so. Then the Vikes pushed the ball downfield for the TD to pad the lead. If Dallas didn't score, we just ran the clock and punted. "Unfortunately" for our viewing enjoyment today, the current Vikings defense appears to be much better than the 1998 version. So the Lions never challenged, and we didn't really push for more points.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by John_Viveiros »

The other thing to consider - Ponder has one turnover in four games. That's just fabulous. Imagine if he starts 16 games and ends up with only 4 turnovers.

Last year, he had fifteen turnovers in ten starts (and I know he didn't complete all ten games). That averages out to 1.5 turnovers per game. For four games, that's six turnovers. So what do you think our record would be with five more turnovers this season? Almost certainly another turnover would have cost us the Jacksonville game. I would guess that two more turnovers could have cost us either of the last two games, or certainly made games that were relatively comfortable to be nailbiters. So it's almost as if that single item could account for the difference this season.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by Hunter Morrow »

I hate Prevent D. I want to see Murder O. If their offense isn't working and yours is...
Crush 'em. Bengals could have won by 30 today but as soon as they got a lead they started playing timid.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by dead_poet »

My random notes:

- Josh Robinson is impressing me with his speed and physical-style of play. I was highly upset about the play he body-slammed the receiver (I'd be curious as to the height/weight difference there). I've seen that done before with no flag (granted it's usually a DE or LB on a running back).

- I can't help but wonder if Harrison Smith's physicality is rubbing off on guys like Robinson, though I've heard he's a pretty confident/baller in his own rite. Either way, this defense (secondary especially) is really showing some shark teeth and not only making plays, but playing with an aggressiveness I haven't seen in awhile. Those big-time hits (like the one on CJ in the end zone) really send a message and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, which is a valuable benefit. Kudos to Spielman for drafting these guys, the position coaches for developing and Williams for utilizing their talents. I'm excited about this young secondary (apologies/respect to Old Man Winfield).

-Another kudos to Frazier/Williams for keeping the #1 receiver in the NFL shut down and severely curtailing one of the NFL's most dominant passing attacks. I ask this: if they can essentially shut down one of the leagues premiere running teams (49ers) and the next week do the same on the road to one of the best passing teams, what CAN'T this defense accomplish? My fear, of course, is that the players loosen up a bit and get sloppy.

-Sanford had another solid outing (man, he loves to hit). Though his coverage skills, hands and decision making/vision are still a liability at times. His PI on Calvin was completely unnecessary.

-Kudos to the coaching staff for disciplined football. This is a couple of games where the Vikings haven't shot themselves in the foot with egregious penalties and self-inflicted wounds that kill their own drives or extend those of our opponents. That's huge.

-I'm still slightly concerned about our defensive line pressure. Despite this, I'm pleasantly surprised by our stout rush defense. Few missed tackles. Nice.

-Like others have mentioned, I have two major concerns with Ponder: 1) The quick throws to covered players at the line and 2) his backwards roll right scampers. I don't think I've seen a quarterback do that nearly as much as Ponder and he's GOT to be able to step up and around defenders so he can square his body and throw downfield. Granted that's not always possible when the guys chasing you are the defensive tackles. But this is an area he needs to improve upon. I understand the need to buy time, but he's not going to complete many throws that way and they are dangerous throws at that. However he's now the only QB in the league that hasn't thrown an interception.

-We won this game without a major offensive contribution from Percy Harvin. The blocking on his kickoff return was phenomenal.

-I saw Percy trot off the field with the trainers early in the second half and he was invisible the rest of the way. That concerns me.

------I just saw a post from Pelissero that said that Lions schemed to take away Harvin and the short passing attack (which apparently aided in Peterson's day). It's nice if it works out like this (a "pick your poison" sort of attack).

-Adrian Peterson is a beast. He needs to spend more time in the end zone, though. Hopefully he rips off a couple next weekend.

-I've been slightly disappointed by Chris Cook (but he hasn't stood out as awful, especially with the way the Vikings are utilizing him).

-Simpson had a nice return and it was about what I expected. Ponder put a nice touch on several of the deeper throws, which was encouraging. I do think Simpson acted a bit on one or both of the PI calls to help influence the ref's decision about tossing the hanky, but that's part of it too. I also was encouraged by the calls in taking shots since the Lions were taking away the short stuff.

-I'm curious why all of AD's carries were up the middle. Less strain on his knee? Better run blocking? I'm not concerned, just curious. Every single one of AD's runs were between the tackles.

-I thought Felton quietly had another nice game. It'll be interesting to read Pelissero's breaking-down-the-tape on him as well as our offensive line in general. I thought the pass-protection was a little leaky. But the Lions do have a tough front four.

-Carlson. Ugh.

-Where was Rudolph in this one? I thought he would be prime for the intermediate routes. If they were scheming away from the short stuff I gotta think there were opportunities there.

-I like how nobody expected us to be 3-1 right now (I thought 2-2 was being gracious). I just hope Frazier builds on this key victory and doesn't allow the team to hang its hat on anything. They still aren't getting any respect around the league. But I'm okay with them being under the radar.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by S197 »

Mothman wrote: That's my biggest concern about Ponder too. Overall, I really like the way he's playing but there are times when he seems to throw that quick hitter down the line of scrimmage when it's not open open. I realize it has to be thrown quickly so I don't know if he's missing something in his pre-snap read or if he just makes the decision before seeing the play is open but he's come close to throwing a pick on that basic play a few times this year. Whatever is going on, I hope he and Musgrave can address it before one of those passes turns into an INT.
I hope so too. Actually if you re-watch the game (I know you have game rewind) there's a play where Detroit runs the same bubble screen but Stafford instead of throwing the ball to the covered receiver reigns it back in and looks for his second read. If Ponder can develop that sort of awareness, he will go far.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by HornedMessiah »

dead_poet wrote:-I like how nobody expected us to be 3-1 right now (I thought 2-2 was being gracious). I just hope Frazier builds on this key victory and doesn't allow the team to hang its hat on anything. They still aren't getting any respect around the league. But I'm okay with them being under the radar.
Being under the radar is great, and I think this team could probably go into their bye week 9-1 and they still wouldn't get a lot of respect because the first half of their schedule is "soft" compared to the last six games which will obviously be tough. Vikings offense didn't help the cause to gain some respect around the league but on the other side of that coin it's GREAT to see the team pull out a win despite a struggling O. I remember back not many years ago when it seemed like this team regularly pulled wins out of their #### because of stellar defensive play while the offense struggled

Did Ponder take a step back today? If he did, it wasn't a big one. He still hasn't thrown an INT, and ya the low passing yardage does remind a bit of the TJack days but I'm not worried about it. It's still early in the season, but if this kind of performance happened late in the year I might be a little concerned
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by saint33 »

dead_poet wrote:My random notes:

- Josh Robinson is impressing me with his speed and physical-style of play. I was highly upset about the play he body-slammed the receiver (I'd be curious as to the height/weight difference there). I've seen that done before with no flag (granted it's usually a DE or LB on a running back).
The Penalty was on Winfield for jumping on the WR while he was getting body slammed, not on Robinson for body slamming the guy
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by S197 »

saint33 wrote: The Penalty was on Winfield for jumping on the WR while he was getting body slammed, not on Robinson for body slamming the guy
Doesn't look like Winfield did much, pretty sure it was on Robinson.

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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by saint33 »

S197 wrote: Doesn't look like Winfield did much, pretty sure it was on Robinson.

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the ref said 26, that's what I'm going off of. Didn't agree with the penalty either way, just clarifying that it wasn't on the hit itself, because body slams have always been legal as far as I've seen
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

I was VERY impressed by Josh Robinson today. I loved it when we drafted him and I think we will be a very good player for us. He is very comparable to Asante Samuel (same size, same school, same ball awareness ability in college, Robinson is faster).


The offense was pretty boring to watch today, but hey we won so I cannot complain too much.


On a side note, anyone else here get the feeling that Minnesota would choke in the last 1 and a half? I called them stalling on offense and punting the ball to the Lions with plenty of time on the clock. I guess after seeing Minnesota get burned so many times in the past I guess I kinda just expect them to choke in the 4th quarter of games now.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by VikeMike »

One play that stands out is the fourh and 5 from the Vikings 7. Allen was off the field with a cramp and Vikings called an aggressive blitz (with Griffen sacking Stafford). I was Soo happy to see that call. It could have gone the other way with Stafford beating the blitz, sure, but they dialed up a blitz after spending the entire game up to that point in a deep cover two. Great, gutsy call.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by admvp »

yezzir wrote:P.S. The American golfers should be ashamed of their collapse today. Makes me sick.
The only negative of the sports day for me. Well, other than the Yanks' win. (I'm an O's fan)
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by admvp »

Well, I predicted a loss. I said Calvin Johnson would destroy our secondary and I said that I needed to see us win on the road before I was willing to buy into this team and believe that we have what it takes to stick around for the entire season.

But we did it! We kept Calvin Johnson largely in check (somehow), and we won on the road! No, we didn't have an offensive touchdown, but I DON'T CARE! WE WON!! Besides, we had some good drives... It's not like we were stifled by the Lions defense all game long. Peterson rushed for over 100 yards and Ponder 'managed the game', which, today, was all he needed to do. He didn't do much, but he also didn't lose us the game. There's something to be said for that. I'd also like to thank the Lions special teams, while also pointing out that they are unblievably, impossibly bad. 2 return TDs allowed last week, 2 more this week.

I begin to wonder if our defense is actually, somehow, pretty good. Sneaky is a good word. Our D is sneaky good. I mean... that was the top passing offense we faced today. I think. And we held them in check.

At this point, I'm puzzled by our first two games of the season. Jacksonville is BAD. I mean, they are really really BAD. And we needed overtime to pull out a miracle win AT HOME against them. And the Colts... they, too, are pretty bad. And we lost to them, and looked awful while doing it (until the end). I guess the only explanation is that this is the NFL and anything can happen.

But if people are going to believe that Arizona and all those other cute little NFC West teams (namely, Seattle and St. Louis) are contenders, then they have to believe in us, too. And with the crappy Titans up next (at home), we're looking at 4-1 boys. I'm pleasantly surprised. Let's keep it rolling! :rock:
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by Mothman »

John_Viveiros wrote:The other thing to consider - Ponder has one turnover in four games. That's just fabulous. Imagine if he starts 16 games and ends up with only 4 turnovers.
He actually has two turnovers (a fumble in each of the first two games) but that's still good after 4 games. :)
dead_poet wrote:-I'm curious why all of AD's carries were up the middle. Less strain on his knee? Better run blocking? I'm not concerned, just curious. Every single one of AD's runs were between the tackles.
It might have been a way to neutralize the Lions interior pass rush. Sometimes teams will attack the strength of a d-line with the run to wear down defenders and get them out of "pass rush first" mode...

... or maybe they just liked the success they were having inside and stuck with it. It's a good question.
-Where was Rudolph in this one? I thought he would be prime for the intermediate routes. If they were scheming away from the short stuff I gotta think there were opportunities there.


I wasn't watching him a lot but I think he may have been kept inside to block quite a bit.
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Re: Vikes/Lions post-game thoughts

Post by Just Me »

admvp wrote:
I begin to wonder if our defense is actually, somehow, pretty good. Sneaky is a good word. Our D is sneaky good. I mean... that was the top passing offense we faced today. I think. And we held them in check.
I am enjoying the win and I think the Viking's performance (collective effort) was good yesterday. We had our problems but the TEAM overcame them and won anyway. That is what good teams do, so that is encouraging. However, I'm not sure that I am willing to put too much stock in the Vikings somehow becoming a "good" defense just yet. I think they had a good game yesterday, but the performance was bolstered by poor performance on the part of Detroit's offense. Not to take anything away from our defense, but how many dropped passes did the Lions have yesterday? One of them was (should have been) a TD pass that was simply dropped. Even the "good" defenses can't stop opposing offenses on every play so perhaps I am being too hard in my assessment, but what I saw was an average defense (which is still a huge leap ahead of where we were at last year) looking great due to ineptness on the opposing team's offense. We may have faced one of the top (if not the top) passing offenses today, but they didn't actually play like they were one today. Some of that was due to our defense for which I happily give them credit, but some of it was simply poor offensive play on the part of the Lions (e.g. dropped passes by Detroit when no defenders were in the picture). So yeah, our defense is "good" when compared to last year's squad. IMHO, though, we are "average" right now when compared other NFL team's. They may further improve (confidence breeds a good cycle of performance here) and reach that level later this year, but I'm cautious of "crowning them" just yet. The danger is they may yet have a "rough outing" and then the opinion switches to "the Viking's defense are who we thought they are" (apologies to DG).
admvp wrote: At this point, I'm puzzled by our first two games of the season. Jacksonville is BAD. I mean, they are really really BAD. And we needed overtime to pull out a miracle win AT HOME against them. And the Colts... they, too, are pretty bad. And we lost to them, and looked awful while doing it (until the end). I guess the only explanation is that this is the NFL and anything can happen.

But if people are going to believe that Arizona and all those other cute little NFC West teams (namely, Seattle and St. Louis) are contenders, then they have to believe in us, too. And with the crappy Titans up next (at home), we're looking at 4-1 boys. I'm pleasantly surprised. Let's keep it rolling! :rock:
I agree the team's performance is "mixed." The only thing I can hang my hat on, is that SF was thoroughly dominated in the game we played (with the exception of special teams). In a pleasing sense of irony, our special teams carried us though a game where the offense couldn't dominate the way they did when we played SF.

Regarding the Titan's though, I wouldn't be so quick to assume 4-1. I'm just enjoying 3-1 right now. :v):
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