Packers get hosed LMAO!

[Crax]

The funny part of that is I think the NFL would actually like to see it improve overall as well. Part of the whole issue during the negotiations is the NFL wants to be able to replace underperforming refs during the season. The regular refs want to be guaranteed set amount of games independent of performance. Under the previous agreement, the NFL couldn't replace the ref that screwed up last night. Under what they are trying to negotiate, I believe they could.

[Mothman]

It's just going to take more than "watch the games!" for me to change my opinion on this as I really can't tell much of a difference and I have been watching. It just seems like the media attention to the replacement refs is fueling this more than the refs themselves. As I've already pointed out, as recently as last season refs made bad calls that determined the outcome of multiple games. I also recall many "non-calls" and that was just with the Vikings games I got to watch last season.

I guess we just see it differently. I see a very noticeable difference on the field.

The replacement refs lack of experience alone puts them at a disadvantage when compared to the regular refs. However, for me, if the regular refs are a 5 out of 10 then the replacement refs are a 4 out of 10 from my view. Yeah, they're not quite as good but the old refs were so horrible to begin with I don't see a huge difference.

That may be where we differ. Generally speaking, I don't think the old refs were horrible. I think they were fallible but nowhere near horrible.

All that said, I would like for NFL officiating to improve ... I just feel like it already needed to.

It did. I just think were quite a few steps below that level of officiating now.

[BGM]

If you go back and watch the games with the REAL refs, I think you will be astonished at how many calls they get RIGHT. Sure, the challenges illuminate some of their miscues, but the fact is that when you watch the games, I would venture a guesstimate that 80-90% of the calls are right on. That is an incredible accuracy rate that isn't even close to being matched by the replacement refs. Of course, there is plenty of room for improvement, as Cliff pointed out.

I know that we have all had that moment when we see the refs call something, it looks wrong, and the tape shows the right call was made. I know I have said out loud, "How did they see that?" It's because they are professionals, well-trained and they know what they are doing.

I mean, look at the calls that the announcers question. Almost all of those end up being the right call. I think there is a perception at work here, that merely questioning a ref's call registers that call as a bad one in the subconscious of fans.

On top of that, players and coaches have become brazen in pushing the envelope. The illegal hits on Matt Schaub and Darius Heyward-Bey are only the most recent examples of players having no respect whatsoever for the ability of the refs to control the game. And that is why Goodell and the owners are complete hypocrites, after proclaiming how they were going to place a high priority on player safety.

I don't make it to the games, but I will not purchase another item of NFL apparel or memorabilia until the real refs return.

[The Breeze]

The thing about this particular call that is so egregious, IMO, is that it wasn't overturned. Sure any official can miss a call for lots of reasons....and a regular ref could have just as easily made the incorrect call on this play. But the fact that after watching all the replays, which included Tate shoving a defender in the back just to get his hands on the ball, they still called this a catch, which is completely nuts.

They had a golden opportunity to correct it through replay and for some reason they failed.

The players should just all protest next week by coming out after halftime in every game and run this script: False start...offsides....false start...offsides, repeat repeat repeat...

This whole issue, whether you agree to it's severity or not, arose out of greed. The ownership of the league and it's relationship to all it's employees is institutionally flawed. The scab refs are just the latest symptom of what a greedy bunch of control freaks the owners are. I love the game but this league stinks. It's become a $3 hooker dressed in million dollar accessories.

Warren Sapp was right with his plantation comments years ago.....

[J. Kapp 11]

Just watch the games, Cliff (if you have the time). It was particularly evident in the Sunday and Monday night games this week (which each had something like 24 called penalties). The officials barely had control of those games.

The frustration with the replacements isn't just over blown judgment calls. We all know officials are human beings and even the regular NFL crews make mistakes. However, the replacements have shown an inability to make calls with anywhere near the consistency that the "real" refs did, a failure to grasp even some of the basic rules, sloppy timekeeping, sloppy enforcement of yardage after penalties, etc. They're getting a lot of basic stuff wrong and the hard evidence is right there in the games. The 49ers were basically given 2 extra timeouts against the Vikings. Seattle was given an extra timeout against Arizona. Last night's final call came after a game full of poor officiating and blown calls and again, it showed a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules and how the officials are supposed to handle that kind of situation.

It's a mess.

I agree with everything you're saying here, Jim. But I have to add this.

These guys (the replacement refs) are not equipped to be doing what they're doing.

They've never called games at anywhere near this level before. It's a lightning-fast game played by the strongest, fastest athletes on the planet. Billions of dollars are on the line. And who does the NFL trot out there to protect the integrity of the game? A bunch of guys who never called anything higher than Coe vs. Simpson (tiny Iowa colleges, for the uninitiated)?

The NFL is to blame here, not the replacement officials. They're doing their best, but it's not enough and it never will be. These guys have been put into a situation where failure is a certainty. Shame on the NFL.

[Just Me]

They've never called games at anywhere near this level before. It's a lightning-fast game played by the strongest, fastest athletes on the planet. Billions of dollars are on the line. And who does the NFL trot out there to protect the integrity of the game? A bunch of guys who never called anything higher than Coe vs. Simpson (tiny Iowa colleges, for the uninitiated)?

The NFL is to blame here, not the replacement officials. They're doing their best, but it's not enough and it never will be. These guys have been put into a situation where failure is a certainty. Shame on the NFL.

^^^ This!

[Mothman]

I agree with everything you're saying here, Jim. But I have to add this.

These guys (the replacement refs) are not equipped to be doing what they're doing.

They've never called games at anywhere near this level before. It's a lightning-fast game played by the strongest, fastest athletes on the planet. Billions of dollars are on the line. And who does the NFL trot out there to protect the integrity of the game? A bunch of guys who never called anything higher than Coe vs. Simpson (tiny Iowa colleges, for the uninitiated)?

The NFL is to blame here, not the replacement officials. They're doing their best, but it's not enough and it never will be. These guys have been put into a situation where failure is a certainty. Shame on the NFL.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

[Just Me]

Spoof Interview of replacement refs (NSFW - Language - "most of it" <bleeped>)

[hibbingviking]

the replacement refs didnt play favorites, they were bad across the board. loved watching bill belicheat, jim harbaugh and arrogant aaron rodgers pissed off. been a fun 3 weeks .

[Sinatra]

Only because it the replacement refs, they don't know any better. Once the real refs come back, the non calls that we're used to will once again be in the Packers favor

In '07, the Packers had the 4th most penalties on offense in the NFL, and 1st most penalties on defense.

In '08, the Packers had the 2nd most penalties on offense, and 14th most on defense.

In '09, 1st most on offense, and 6th most on defense.

In '10, 30th on offense, and 12th on defense.

In '11, 31st on offense, and 2nd on defense.

In '12 so far, 6th most on offense, and 1st on defense.

So aside from their offense in '10 and '11, the Packers are consistently among the most penalized teams in the league -- especially on defense.

On average, the Packers are the 9th most penalized team over the last 6 years, season by season. If you just look at defense, they're the 6th most penalized defense on average in the NFL over the last 6 years, and twice had the most penalties in the entire NFL over that period.

Yeah, some real favoritism there.

[Sinatra]

The NFL is to blame here, not the replacement officials. They're doing their best, but it's not enough and it never will be. These guys have been put into a situation where failure is a certainty. Shame on the NFL.

Why shouldn't the replacement refs be held accountable and take their share of the blame? They willing accepted a job that they knew they were woefully unequipped and unqualified to perform. And most if not all of them did it for selfish reasons -- whether it was for the money, for the potential fame or just to "live the dream." They put those personal ambitions above the integrity of the game, the players careers and safety and the fans. Yes, the NFL did that too -- but that doesn't absolve the replacements of their role in things.

These replacements don't deserve pity. It's not like these guys were war heroes thrust into circumstances beyond their control. They didn't have a gun held to their head. They chose to jump into something that they knew they couldn't handle, all for personal benefit. Screw them too.

[Just Me]

Why shouldn't the replacement refs be held accountable and take their share of the blame? They willing accepted a job that they knew they were woefully unequipped and unqualified to perform. And most if not all of them did it for selfish reasons -- whether it was for the money, for the potential fame or just to "live the dream." They put those personal ambitions above the integrity of the game, the players careers and safety and the fans. Yes, the NFL did that too -- but that doesn't absolve the replacements of their role in things.

These replacements don't deserve pity. It's not like these guys were war heroes thrust into circumstances beyond their control. They didn't have a gun held to their head. They chose to jump into something that they knew they couldn't handle, all for personal benefit. Screw them too.

And if they had declined to work, people would be bashing them for "bringing a halt to the NFL season". The fact of the matter is they accepted a job that was offered to them. If you were offered a job would you turn it down because you weren't fully trained when it was offered to you? Everyone needs some OJT. There simply wasn't enough time for them to get trained to the level of the regular refs. If their motives were selfish and they didn't perform to the level they should have, then the employer should have fired them. Oh, wait. They couldn't because the NFL was busy saving a penny or two. Ever heard of the phrase: Penny wise but pound foolish?

[Sinatra]

And if they had declined to work, people would be bashing them for "bringing a halt to the NFL season". The fact of the matter is they accepted a job that was offered to them. If you were offered a job would you turn it down because you weren't fully trained when it was offered to you? Everyone needs some OJT. There simply wasn't enough time for them to get trained to the level of the regular refs. If their motives were selfish and they didn't perform to the level they should have, then the employer should have fired them. Oh, wait. They couldn't because the NFL was busy saving a penny or two. Ever heard of the phrase: Penny wise but pound foolish?

f the regular refs had quit and were never coming back, then by all means, we have to get new guys in there to train. But these guys knew they were a temporary stop-gap. They weren't going to get enough time to ever get up to speed. Mediocrity was inherent to the whole situation. They never should have taken the job.

And no, in a situation like that, I would not take the job.

I really don't understand people's desire to absolve the replacements of any responsibility.

[J. Kapp 11]

And no, in a situation like that, I would not take the job.

Easy to say when you're not actually in the position of being offered the job.

I really don't understand people's desire to absolve the replacements of any responsibility.

Easy. It's the NFL's fault.

Let's call it like it is ... the NFL was going to the mat over what amounts to pennies in a multi-billion dollar business. You've got less than 200 officials in the NFL, all of whom make a small fraction of the salaries the players do. Yet the NFL battled them as if the league would go bankrupt if they lost the dispute.

The NFL had no interest in protecting the integrity of the game ... not to mention the safety of the players. If they had, the replacement refs never would have been out there. The deal would have been done long ago.

[Hunter Morrow]

200 refs wanted to make an extra I believe 25 grand a year and possibly be full time employees.

200 times 25,000 times the next 25 years is 125 million dollars over 2 and a half decades. Just the NFL's broadcast rights alone make 7 billion a year. 125 million over 25 years is absolutely chump change for the owners and the league overall.

Every other sports league has full time refs and pays them more than the NFL. Why? NFL is clearly the largest, richest, most watched and most successful sports league in this country. Why does an entry level NBA ref make 150,000 when a ten year NFL veteran makes 110,000? I'd strike, too. I would think this as a starting ref: "Why should starting refs in leagues clearly much less popular and successful than the NFL, such as NHL, make more than I do after 15 years?"

Penny pinching at its worst.

Penny wise, 150 million dollars foolish (or cunning?)