Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by Mothman »

Good stuff from Siefert:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... vikings-34
Sitting in the Metrodome press box offers a live version of the "All 22" coaches' video that the NFL has now made available. And I can tell you that Vikings quarterback Christian Ponder didn't often have an obviously open receiver when he completed his drop back. A good portion of his drifting toward the sideline or away from the line of scrimmage was an artful attempt to buy time. It worked frequently.
Greenway took to heart a challenge from coach Leslie Frazier, who told players during a mid-week team meeting that outsiders were questioning their toughness.
More at the link.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by losperros »

Thanks for this, Jim. I love Siefert's Head Exam columns.

There are some things about the current WRs that get me. Siefert confirmed what I thought was the case but couldn't tell on my TV. These receivers don't get open enough. And what's with just standing there like bumps on a log when Ponder is forced to scramble? Harvin seemed like the only one with the common sense to find an opening when his route was completed.

As for Greenway, he played like a man on a mission. Great game for him.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by Arma »

It's scary to think what Ponder could do with an actual good group of WRs who know how to get seperation. The only thing Jenkins and Aromashodu are good for is finding a rare soft spot in a zone.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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losperros wrote:Thanks for this, Jim. I love Siefert's Head Exam columns.
I do too. They're always interesting.
There are some things about the current WRs that get me. Siefert confirmed what I thought was the case but couldn't tell on my TV. These receivers don't get open enough. And what's with just standing there like bumps on a log when Ponder is forced to scramble? Harvin seemed like the only one with the common sense to find an opening when his route was completed.
Aromashodu came back for one or two but for the most part, the broadcasters made it sound like the receivers just weren't doing enough to help their Qb when he rolled out. I don't get it either. You can learn that to do that just playing "street" ball.
As for Greenway, he played like a man on a mission. Great game for him.
He's having a good season so far but he was on fire Sunday. I hope he can sustain that level of play all season.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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losperros wrote:There are some things about the current WRs that get me. Siefert confirmed what I thought was the case but couldn't tell on my TV. These receivers don't get open enough. And what's with just standing there like bumps on a log when Ponder is forced to scramble? Harvin seemed like the only one with the common sense to find an opening when his route was completed.
Well let me throw this at you Craig:

If this situation is so obvious that a sports reporter could pick it up in a few minutes of watching tape, what kind of coaching staff can't pick this up off tape and correct it?

I mean seriously, if it were all that simple then I am one-thousand percent sure that Aromashodu is a good enough athlete and a smart enough kid that he could translate good coaching into on-the-field success. In fact I am a billion percent sure of it.

So where does the problem truly lie?
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by psjordan »

And just for a bit of hyperbole, why in the world does it seem every NFL team but the Vikes can spontaneously produce a WR named Josh Squigenthala from East Tennessee Tech who catches 9 passes for 122 yards in some game?
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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psjordan wrote: Well let me throw this at you Craig:

If this situation is so obvious that a sports reporter could pick it up in a few minutes of watching tape, what kind of coaching staff can't pick this up off tape and correct it?

I mean seriously, if it were all that simple then I am one-thousand percent sure that Aromashodu is a good enough athlete and a smart enough kid that he could translate good coaching into on-the-field success. In fact I am a billion percent sure of it.

So where does the problem truly lie?
Well, since he's been on 4 or 5 teams now then maybe, just maybe the problem lies with Aromashodu himself. He's had some on field success but maybe he's just reached the ceiling of where his talents can taken him. Coaches can't just weave straw into gold.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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psjordan wrote:And just for a bit of hyperbole, why in the world does it seem every NFL team but the Vikes can spontaneously produce a WR named Josh Squigenthala from East Tennessee Tech who catches 9 passes for 122 yards in some game?
LOL! "Josh Squigenthala"... that was fun hyperbole.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by losperros »

psjordan wrote: Well let me throw this at you Craig:

If this situation is so obvious that a sports reporter could pick it up in a few minutes of watching tape, what kind of coaching staff can't pick this up off tape and correct it?

I mean seriously, if it were all that simple then I am one-thousand percent sure that Aromashodu is a good enough athlete and a smart enough kid that he could translate good coaching into on-the-field success. In fact I am a billion percent sure of it.

So where does the problem truly lie?
Good point, Paul, and I've thought about that as well. Are the Vikings WRs told to sit on their routes? Seriously, some WRs are told that by their coaches, especially in conservative offensive schemes. Aren't they ever encouraged to come back to help their QB? I don't know.

Then again, is the coaching staff so lame as to not review game film with WRs? I just figure they'd say, "Hey (Jenkins or Aromashodu or whoever), you could have helped Ponder by finding an opening instead of standing around waiting for a bus." But if they aren't doing that, then yes, it's horrid coaching.

But as Jim said, guys like Aromashodu and Jenkins have played for other teams. They aren't rookies. There should be some savvy there. I still think some of the responsibility is on them. Harvin is being coached by the same staff and he seems to comprehend the need to sometimes break off a route when Ponder is under duress.

Still, I understand your point and it's a valid one. If nothing else, the coaches need to shake these guys up. Maybe the fault lies with both the players and the coaches.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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losperros wrote:Good point, Paul, and I've thought about that as well. Are the Vikings WRs told to sit on their routes? Seriously, some WRs are told that by their coaches, especially in conservative offensive schemes. Aren't they ever encouraged to come back to help their QB? I don't know.

Then again, is the coaching staff so lame as to not review game film with WRs? I just figure they'd say, "Hey (Jenkins or Aromashodu or whoever), you could have helped Ponder by finding an opening instead of standing around waiting for a bus." But if they aren't doing that, then yes, it's horrid coaching.

But as Jim said, guys like Aromashodu and Jenkins have played for other teams. They aren't rookies. There should be some savvy there. I still think some of the responsibility is on them. Harvin is being coached by the same staff and he seems to comprehend the need to sometimes break off a route when Ponder is under duress.
I was going to say the same thing and as I said, Aromashodu did it a couple of times on Sunday. I think the problem is far more likely to lie with field and situational awareness of the receivers than with coaching. When the QB scrambles, the receivers need to recognize and react to the situation. Coaches can't do that for them.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by psjordan »

Mothman wrote:Well, since he's been on 4 or 5 teams now then maybe, just maybe the problem lies with Aromashodu himself.
I was hoping you'd realize by typing "Aromashodu" I was implying "Aromashodu/Burton/Jenkins/Wright/Whoever".

Perhaps they all suck at improv. It is certainly possible. Just doesn't seem probable to me I guess.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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losperros wrote:Then again, is the coaching staff so lame as to not review game film with WRs?
All things aside, I think you and I both know the coaches watch REAMS of film. So I realize ignorance is very likely not the source of the problem.
I am leaning more towards "coaching methods and techniques" than anything else.
Do we practice busted plays? I have no idea. If we do, do we practice enough? Do we practice it the right way, coming off of all routes? Dunno.
But I find it really strange this of all things is an issue yet to be resolved on an NFL team.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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psjordan wrote: I was hoping you'd realize by typing "Aromashodu" I was implying "Aromashodu/Burton/Jenkins/Wright/Whoever".

Perhaps they all suck at improv. It is certainly possible. Just doesn't seem probable to me I guess.
I'm sorry. I obviously took you too literally.

As I said, I think it's a question of player awareness more than anything else, although there may be other factors involved. I don't see why this would be a "coaching methods and techniques" issue, since these receivers have probably been taught to help out their QB, come back for the ball, etc. at every level of football and Vikes WR coach George Stewart is a very experienced, accomplished coach.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

Post by VikingLord »

losperros wrote: There are some things about the current WRs that get me. Siefert confirmed what I thought was the case but couldn't tell on my TV. These receivers don't get open enough. And what's with just standing there like bumps on a log when Ponder is forced to scramble? Harvin seemed like the only one with the common sense to find an opening when his route was completed.
This is something that is typically coached at much lower levels than the pros. I find it hard to believe that the Vikings have managed to collect a group of WR's who lack this basic awareness to find some open space when the play has broken down and try to help the QB.

If that isn't it, then they're being told to sit down in that situation, perhaps on the off chance that their cover guy leaves them open as he pursues the play. If so, they'd make a nice, stationary target for Ponder and increase the likelihood of the pass, if it were to come, being completed.

Maybe Harvin stays on the move in that situation to draw attention away from the statues. Who knows?

But it seems extremely unlikely that the other WR's are just sitting down due to a lack of awareness or effort.
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Re: Vikings Free Head Exam (Vikes vs. 49ers)

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VikingLord wrote: This is something that is typically coached at much lower levels than the pros. I find it hard to believe that the Vikings have managed to collect a group of WR's who lack this basic awareness to find some open space when the play has broken down and try to help the QB.

If that isn't it, then they're being told to sit down in that situation, perhaps on the off chance that their cover guy leaves them open as he pursues the play. If so, they'd make a nice, stationary target for Ponder and increase the likelihood of the pass, if it were to come, being completed.

Maybe Harvin stays on the move in that situation to draw attention away from the statues. Who knows?

But it seems extremely unlikely that the other WR's are just sitting down due to a lack of awareness or effort.
It seems even more unlikely that they're being coached not to keep moving and help their QB out.
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