Zulgad: Vikings Vertical Passing Game Virtually Non-existent

[Mothman]

There's a nice, alliterative article title for you:

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Zulg ... _far091812

Christian Ponder did his best Monday to downplay the importance of the vertical passing game when asked about the Minnesota Vikings' lack of big-play strikes through the first two games of the season.

"We're finding ways to make big plays still," the quarterback said. "We don't have to throw the ball downfield. Obviously, it's great to make big plays and get the ball downfield, but with the offense we have right now, we're taking what the defense gives us."

What Ponder doesn't say is that the Vikings are clearly limited, or at least feel they are, in what they can do as far as opening up things.

With Jerome Simpson suspended for the first three games of the season for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy, the expectation was the Vikings would lack any type of vertical threat in games against Jacksonville, Indianapolis and San Francisco.

The real question is whether Aromashodu, Jenkins and Burton have the ability to create the separation necessary to beat defenders deep and open up things for the Vikings. Offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave had his receivers run some deeper routes on Sunday but no one got open.

[jackal]

I am waiting to see when Simpson gets off suspension what happens


our 25 million dollar sea hawk tight end has not done anything at all ..

I also noticed Johnson LG letting people blow by on the turn over sack last week

[Hunter Morrow]

Great, we are back to the "Take What They Give Us" and the KAO era again.

Odd time to quote Malcolm X but..."Nobody gives you anything. If you are a man, you take it."

Have fun with the 20 point games, Frazier, you pinhead. Here's to Blair Walsh hitting 50 yarders. Here's to Kluwe being the most
important guy on our offense.

Sometimes a field goal is better than a touchdown, right? That is what Chilly's KAO was all about right? K.icking A.nother Field Goal O.ffense. Ah, the "field position game." Here's the position I wanna be in...Spiking a ball in the end zone. That is the only part of the effin' field that matters. The endzone.
Remember those days of field goal being "better" than a touchdown, give up calling, coughing up embarrasing double digit losses to mediocre teams because we "played not to lose" instead of laying 30 or 40 points on the jabronis? Remember the toss sweeps and passes behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and long? Remember settling for 50 yarders? Frazier does!
I don't know about you but to me 7 looks a lot better than 3!

Wouldn't it be great to see a nice 2 or 3 touchdown blowout? Do you remember when the Vikings use to give them instead of bend over, grab the ankles and take 'em? Yeah, me neither!

[dead_poet]

Great, we are back to the "Take What They Give Us" and the KAO era again.

Odd time to quote Malcolm X but..."Nobody gives you anything. If you are a man, you take it."

Have fun with the 20 point games, Frazier, you pinhead. Here's to Blair Walsh hitting 50 yarders. Here's to Kluwe being the most
important guy on our offense.

Sometimes a field goal is better than a touchdown, right? That is what Chilly's KAO was all about right? K.icking A.nother Field Goal O.ffense. Ah, the "field position game." Here's the position I wanna be in...Spiking a ball in the end zone. That is the only part of the effin' field that matters. The endzone.
Remember those days of field goal being "better" than a touchdown, give up calling, coughing up embarrasing double digit losses to mediocre teams because we "played not to lose" instead of laying 30 or 40 points on the jabronis? Remember the toss sweeps and passes behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and long? Remember settling for 50 yarders? Frazier does!
I don't know about you but to me 7 looks a lot better than 3!

Wouldn't it be great to see a nice 2 or 3 touchdown blowout? Do you remember when the Vikings use to give them instead of bend over, grab the ankles and take 'em? Yeah, me neither!

Pretty sure Frazier is one of those coaches that would prefer more points to less points. I still believe that you have to:

A) Have the right weaponry (pass catchers that can either separate consistently or consistently run precise routes)
B) Take what the defense gives you.

There have been plenty of vertical teams that find ways to win when the defense goes all out to stop the deep/vertical attack. Heck, I'm pretty sure the Packers faced a couple of them already. In the Bears game you didn't see Rodgers throwing the deep passes you're used to see him throwing. No. You saw a LOT more handoffs to Benson (like considerably more than they've done previously) and underneath stuff to Finley and Cobb.

To say that the Vikings (or any team) needs to just throw the ball more because "this is a passing league now so just do it or you can't win and you're too conservative", to me, is not seeing the full picture.

[mansquatch]

IMO the passing issue is more about the lack of productions from the TE than anythign else. Burton/Jenkins/Aromashadu are, chaneling Denny, "exactly who we thought they were". No one expected them to burn anybody or even be semi-scary.

I have no answers on what is going on with the TE. Rudolph is inconsistent and doesn't get as open as he should. He makes clutch grabs late, but then drops easy catches on 3rd down. Maybe that is a young player thing? Carlson has had very few snaps and even fewer looks. Not sure if that is on him or on the QB or the play calling. My guess is it is the latter two, I've read stuff saying he has gotten open, but didn't get the ball. IMO, this is more about play calling than anything else, why that is, I have no idea.

[dead_poet]

I have no answers on what is going on with the TE. Rudolph is inconsistent and doesn't get as open as he should. He makes clutch grabs late, but then drops easy catches on 3rd down. Maybe that is a young player thing? Carlson has had very few snaps and even fewer looks. Not sure if that is on him or on the QB or the play calling. My guess is it is the latter two, I've read stuff saying he has gotten open, but didn't get the ball. IMO, this is more about play calling than anything else, why that is, I have no idea.

I just watched a video with Judd & Tom and they said how both Rudolph and Carlson were called on to block quite a bit last game. That may have had something to do with it.

[Mothman]

I just watched a video with Judd & Tom and they said how both Rudolph and Carlson were called on to block quite a bit last game. That may have had something to do with it.

Here's a link to it for those who haven't seen it:

http://www.1500espn.com/videos/lack_of_ ... ngs_issues

It contains some good analysis and they discuss some of the same issues we've been talking about here this week.

[VikingLord]

My question is, why is Ponder so eager to downplay the importance of down field passing? Why not just say "we know it's important, but the team just isn't built to do it right now."

No, instead he comes out and says it's not important.

Denial is never a good thing, especially when it's mouthpiece is a supposed leader of a team.

I wish Ponder would just come out and say yes, it's important, but right now it's more important to limit turnovers and maximize the chances of getting the next first down.

[Demi]

Because he's a buffoon. Guy doesn't belong in football. His attitude, his personality, it's even worse than I thought it was...

I just watched a video with Judd & Tom and they said how both Rudolph and Carlson were called on to block quite a bit last game. That may have had something to do with it.

Same thing Childress used to do all the time. Shrink the field. Vertically and horizontally. You want to know why they're giving you what they are Messiah Ponder? Because they know you're not going to win a game taking what they give you. And yeah, protection is an issue, you know what helps just as much as keeping in backs and tight ends? Giving your quarterback more targets to hit. More possible receivers to get open. More of the field the opposing field has to defend. It's not hard for a defense when they don't have to worry about larges parts of the field.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[dead_poet]

My question is, why is Ponder so eager to downplay the importance of down field passing? Why not just say "we know it's important, but the team just isn't built to do it right now."

Because it's probably not a very good leader-y thing to publicly say/imply that the guys on your team can't execute?

I wish Ponder would just come out and say yes, it's important, but right now it's more important to limit turnovers and maximize the chances of getting the next first down.

Maybe this helps. Ponder said this in another article this week:

"That's one thing we're lacking is big plays and obviously, we want to strive to get better at, to make those progressions of making those plays," Ponder said. "But we're not going to force things downfield and we're just going to keep taking what a defense gives us."

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Jari ... tack091912

[BGM]

Wouldn't it be great to see a nice 2 or 3 touchdown blowout? Do you remember when the Vikings use to give them instead of bend over, grab the ankles and take 'em? Yeah, me neither!

Yeah... that was 1998. I mean, sure, a blowout would be great, but you do have to have the talent in place to make that happen. It probably won't happen with Ponder, because what he has shown so far does not translate into a high-powered offense. WRs? Puh-leeze. Harvin is a real and credible threat every time he touches the ball. But aside from him, Rudolph is the best receiver. A good OL would go far in powering a high-octane offense. We ain't got that... yet. We do have the best RB in the NFL. Fat lot of good that does with limited support elsewhere.

Seriously, it is all well and good to hope and wish and dream... but a good coach uses what he has. Unfortunately, I believe there is potential that remains untapped, and I place that squarely in the lap of the coaches. But, let's get real... we're not the Falcons.

What I want is to see an offense that is willing to adapt and gamble. What is there to lose this season?

My faith in Frazier and Co. is starting to waver, but I am willing to see what they can do as the season progresses. I want to see more than just baby steps, but I don't expect a great leap forward. That didn't work out so well for the Chinese and I don't see that working for the Vikes either.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Mustgrave has to shrink the field cause Shrimp isnt capale of staying calm enough for more then1 read (if he is even capeable of making two reads). Hes throws the hot route real fast, never a completion and im starting to think they are his fault more then the WRs. Nor does he have the accuracy or arm str. to throw the ball long. And ive watched every game hes played as a Vike. He has had a few good passes (like the one to Kyle vrs the Jags) but NO D will worry about that much.

[dead_poet]

Bill Musgrave says Christian Ponder made correct decisions on all but 3 snaps against Colts. Correctly ate the ball on short plays. #Vikings

I said it didn't look like receivers were open on any of the deep routes. "They weren't," Musgrave said, "and that's not on Christian."

Tom Pelissero on Twitter

---

Of course, with so little confidence in Musgrave, why would anyone believe him anyway?

[PurpleMustReign]

Tom Pelissero on Twitter

---

Of course, with so little confidence in Musgrave, why would anyone believe him anyway?

Obviously Ponder held Musgrave at gun point and told him to say that stuff. We all know it isn't true...

[losperros]

When Jerome Simpson joins the team, it will help but not solve the problem. Simpson will need some time to get up to speed (no pun intended) and he can't stretch the field all by himself and have it work on every play. Personally, I think the Vikings still need to strengthen their WR corps.

Musgrave needs to open the Urban Meyer playbook from the Gators when Harvin used to play there. They would send an outside WR deep but also have Harvin find a seam deep from his slot position at the same time. I can't tell you how many times Tebow connected with Harvin for big gains under those circumstances. Of course, that's college ball and wide open SEC plays, so one has to take that into consideration. Can it work for the NFL?

I believe Eli was right when he said in another thread that the quality of the players dictates what an offense can or cannot do more than anything else. So, I guess I'm saying that Musgrave can call a bunch of long passes but I really doubt this current Vikings offense could make much out of the calls.

None of this means that I like a conservative offense, especially of the Childress kind. I hate it. And I don't think it can work. But right now I'm not buying for one minute that this team has a complete offense.

My confidence in Frazier and his staff might quickly decline, I don't know, but for right now I still want to see more of this season before I make a final judgement. Honestly, I look at this roster and I don't see a team that's going to put up 30-40 points a game, regardless the schemes.