What's wrong with the Vikings?
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
This is like eating a #### salad and trying to determine if the cause of the taste is the moldy raisins, stale lettuce or rancid cheese. I don't think after two games you can point to one single thing. This is a process. There's a lot that needs addressing/improving.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
Out of curiosity, what are some examples from Musgrave that trouble you? And who has ever called Musgrave a "hotshot?"GBFavreFan wrote:I was lukewarm but patient last year with our playcalling and our so called hotshot Bill Musgrave unleashing some incredible sort of offense and I just don't think its working. While its a different style from Bevil I don't think this is working and I don't think it works for Christian Ponder. And all this vaunted two-TE talk is hogwash and I don't think we're going to see much out of our tight ends period. I think we're on a hamster wheel with Musgrave and while we will win games I don't think we become an offensive super power with Musgrave leading the ship. While no one else is blameless, I would fire Musgrave before I Frazier at this point.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
other.
it's everything you listed. we are a rebuilding team and really no loss we endure this season should shock anyone. most of us experts had this team winning anywhere from 2 games to 8. i see us being right in the middle. we are no different than any other team in the nfl. what was wrong with the 9ers 7 years ago? what was wrong with the texans? or the ravens for a while after their superbowl? or the lions all those years? or the vikes now? it's how it goes in the nfl. we'll be better next season and perhaps even a contender in the next few. time will tell as it always does.
it's everything you listed. we are a rebuilding team and really no loss we endure this season should shock anyone. most of us experts had this team winning anywhere from 2 games to 8. i see us being right in the middle. we are no different than any other team in the nfl. what was wrong with the 9ers 7 years ago? what was wrong with the texans? or the ravens for a while after their superbowl? or the lions all those years? or the vikes now? it's how it goes in the nfl. we'll be better next season and perhaps even a contender in the next few. time will tell as it always does.
i'm ready for a beer.
Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
"Other"...
There's no single answer to the question but the the Vikings two biggest problems are talent and experience. They need more difference-makers and in a number of areas, they need more experience. This isn't a #### mystery. Everyone knew they were a rebuilding team going team going into the season. Most expected them to struggle and the primary reasons for that are youth and talent.
There's no single answer to the question but the the Vikings two biggest problems are talent and experience. They need more difference-makers and in a number of areas, they need more experience. This isn't a #### mystery. Everyone knew they were a rebuilding team going team going into the season. Most expected them to struggle and the primary reasons for that are youth and talent.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
I'd be seriously surprised if the Wilfs (or do you mean Spielman?) are putting a ton of emphasis on a game-to-game basis. They likely are taking many things into account but I would venture if changes are made they will look at the season as a whole and place more emphasis there than on individual games.GBFavreFan wrote:I'd be surprised if the Vikings brass weren't making serious assessments on different aspects of the team on a weekly basis so I don't see why fans shouldn't be allowed to either. And I never said one thing is to blame I'm polling as to what people see as the most to blame.
I suppose I'm not sure what you mean by "serious assessments." I personally think two weeks is a bit premature for this question, but it'll be interesting to see who the majority of the people are blaming after two weeks on a rebuilding team that wasn't pegged win more than 5 games from the beginning.
Regarding Musgrave: you have to remember how valuable it is for a quarterback (especially a young one) to have consistency and confidence with the scheme. That comes with time. Depending on how things shake out after the season, just inserting a new offensive coordinator with a new system may push Ponder back even further before he could take a greater step forward. With the pressure he has on himself and the "win now!" mantra of fans, I cringe at what could happen if he's put in such a situation.
Last edited by dead_poet on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
Yesterday, we beat ourselves. We left wayy to many bad plays out there yesterday.
Penalties lost us the game.
Main Point - WE ARE TOO CONSERVATIVE!
Wide Receivers - I know, I know we get Simpson in two weeks. He may be able to assist Harvin when it comes to making big plays, but will his presence win us games that we wouldn't normally have without him? We just dont know. So even when Simpson returns, we have a group of young players who dont have much, if any, experience at all. Simpson will provide a spark, but how big that spark is remains to be seen.
Defense - Our front 7 is tough. Greenway, Allen, and Williams all great players and are looked at as the best at their positions. Robison, Griffen, Ballard, Henderson, and Brinkley are all YOUNG players that show promise. We have a strong front 7. Look at the 4 behind them. Winfield is the only true veteran. He is older and slower, but packs a mean punch and is extremely smart. Chris cook is very versatile and has big play making ability to go along with his big frame and natural talent. Our safties are young and/or inexperienced. I think this defense needs some time to "gel" together. A lot of the big plays we let happen are usually due to missed assignments or our dbacks being confused. When it comes to man on man, we win the battle more than we lose it.
Coaching Staff - Leslie Frazier. I know he means well, but he is WAYYY to conservative to be an NFL head coach. When it comes to player management, game management, play calling, big game decisions, he is just simply too conservative. I know Musgrave calls the plays, but our head coach needs to show some emotion, have some fun, and win some damn games. We have the talent on the roster, now the coach needs to guide them to victory. Although the play was BS, when our Special Teams coordinator was fired up on the side lines, yelling and pacing around, it showed heart. The Vikings justify sucking by saying they are rebuilding and bla blah blah...
Bottom line, the Vikings are a professional Football team in the NFL. They need to start acting like it. If you dont have a big play receiver, GO GET ONE. Figure out a way to score points. Figure out a way to stop the opposing team on 3rd downs. Start acting like professionals. There is no penalty in TRYING. Week in and week out we see the same old ####, LETS GET IT FIGURED OUT!
Penalties lost us the game.
Main Point - WE ARE TOO CONSERVATIVE!
Wide Receivers - I know, I know we get Simpson in two weeks. He may be able to assist Harvin when it comes to making big plays, but will his presence win us games that we wouldn't normally have without him? We just dont know. So even when Simpson returns, we have a group of young players who dont have much, if any, experience at all. Simpson will provide a spark, but how big that spark is remains to be seen.
Defense - Our front 7 is tough. Greenway, Allen, and Williams all great players and are looked at as the best at their positions. Robison, Griffen, Ballard, Henderson, and Brinkley are all YOUNG players that show promise. We have a strong front 7. Look at the 4 behind them. Winfield is the only true veteran. He is older and slower, but packs a mean punch and is extremely smart. Chris cook is very versatile and has big play making ability to go along with his big frame and natural talent. Our safties are young and/or inexperienced. I think this defense needs some time to "gel" together. A lot of the big plays we let happen are usually due to missed assignments or our dbacks being confused. When it comes to man on man, we win the battle more than we lose it.
Coaching Staff - Leslie Frazier. I know he means well, but he is WAYYY to conservative to be an NFL head coach. When it comes to player management, game management, play calling, big game decisions, he is just simply too conservative. I know Musgrave calls the plays, but our head coach needs to show some emotion, have some fun, and win some damn games. We have the talent on the roster, now the coach needs to guide them to victory. Although the play was BS, when our Special Teams coordinator was fired up on the side lines, yelling and pacing around, it showed heart. The Vikings justify sucking by saying they are rebuilding and bla blah blah...
Bottom line, the Vikings are a professional Football team in the NFL. They need to start acting like it. If you dont have a big play receiver, GO GET ONE. Figure out a way to score points. Figure out a way to stop the opposing team on 3rd downs. Start acting like professionals. There is no penalty in TRYING. Week in and week out we see the same old ####, LETS GET IT FIGURED OUT!
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
A quick look at other threads provides 3 very predictable answers; Frazier, Musgrave and Ponder.dead_poet wrote:I suppose I'm not sure what you mean by "serious assessments." I personally think two weeks is a bit premature for this question, but it'll be interesting to see who the majority of the people are blaming after two weeks on a rebuilding team that wasn't pegged win more than 5 games from the beginning.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
I would also like to add to my last post that I personally do NOT think Ponder is an issue. He has played very smart, made big plays, and shown that he can be an elite QB. His passer rating over the last two games is somewhere around 110. He has thrown upwards of 500 yds and has 2 tds. NO INTERCEPTIONS, I might add.
Give him some weapons (and when I say him I should add Percy) and he will play well.
Everyone talks about his confidence... if he only had a true deep threat to add to his promising TE and freak of nature slot WR.
Ochocinco? No, that was just a dream
Give him some weapons (and when I say him I should add Percy) and he will play well.
Everyone talks about his confidence... if he only had a true deep threat to add to his promising TE and freak of nature slot WR.
Ochocinco? No, that was just a dream
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
Our defensive scheme is just awful. I knew as soon as there was 30 seconds to play that Luck would have enough time to get Adam V. in FG range. Classic Leslie Frazer Cover-0 defense came to life in true fashion and gave away the game. I really don't know how we'll get a pick (that's not tipped) this year.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
Zygi Wilf. For not putting the people in place to have a successful team. His hiring of incompetents, and hand picking brain dead head coaches is what has us in this situation...
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
I hope he watched that SF game and saw what Harbaugh has done for that team. He might be a loud-mouth but he has results. We still have parts of the Childress era in here and our talent on D is not good for Cover-2. It's outdated and will get us torched vs Lions, Bears, and Packers.
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
We were better off with Childress as our HC. I didnt like the guy either, but he was much better then anything ive seen from Fraizer. Our coaching is the problem now. We have no one to develope this young talent Spielman has such a hard on for. We are much worse off now, then when Childress got fired and the Idiot was put in charge. None of the coaches, from Mustgrave on down are doing their job. The D is so bad apparently Williams looks like hes going to join the Team Suck Coaches too. When will the Wilfs hire some real football orientated winners for coach(s)????
Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
I voted "other." I'm not backing down from my initial thought to this season, which is that Childress left the team in complete disarray (and I also fault Zygi for that for several reasons). I'm looking for progress - period. If the team can get anywhere near .500 this year, I'll be happy but not surprised. I expect this team to get better with experience.
When I say these things, it doesn't mean I'm in la la land with purple shades covering my eyes. I *expect* the Vikings to gradually (not overnight) be a better but not nearly a championship quality team by the end of the season. That said, if they don't improve or, heaven forbid, they get worse, then I'll expect Zygi to make some changes. Big ones.
When I say these things, it doesn't mean I'm in la la land with purple shades covering my eyes. I *expect* the Vikings to gradually (not overnight) be a better but not nearly a championship quality team by the end of the season. That said, if they don't improve or, heaven forbid, they get worse, then I'll expect Zygi to make some changes. Big ones.
Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
I understand that the question asks for a SINGLE answere but their are SOOOOO many problems with this team and each of them can be attributed to factors outside the individual issue....for example;
For those who say Ponder is the problem....Others may argue its the O line or Musgrave or not having a downfield threat
For those to say its the coaching....others could say its the lack of talent on both the offense and defense
For those who say its the secondary.....others might say its the lack of pass rush (they would be wrong, but they might say that)
bottom line is there are far to many issues with this team that need to be corrected and they either
(A) dont have the players to implement what the coaching staff is teaching or
(B) they have the players but the coaching staff cant coach
For those who say Ponder is the problem....Others may argue its the O line or Musgrave or not having a downfield threat
For those to say its the coaching....others could say its the lack of talent on both the offense and defense
For those who say its the secondary.....others might say its the lack of pass rush (they would be wrong, but they might say that)
bottom line is there are far to many issues with this team that need to be corrected and they either
(A) dont have the players to implement what the coaching staff is teaching or
(B) they have the players but the coaching staff cant coach
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Re: What's wrong with the Vikings?
I was thinking the same thing80 PurplePride 84 wrote:Why is all (or most) of the above not an option?